51m0n

And never forget there are no hard and fast rules If it sounds good and didn't release the magic smoke then it is good....

As long as you are recording at 24 bit don't worry at all about recording at low levels. When tracking drums I leave a good 12dB above the highest peaks. At mix down you can use a gain plugin or normalise the tracks to make driving other gain sensitive plugins

Its a kicker isnt it. That great tone you get out of your rig live, and you DI your bass and get nothing like it, or you mic it and get nothing like it, either no low end, no grind, too nasal, no balls. No 'schawingggggg'.... EQ and compression in the mix can help, extreme EQ can make a DI'ed bass sound pretty good, but at the end of the day a speaker flapping around is a very very poor transducer, it adds all sorts of odd distortion to the sound and filters out a load of frequencies to boot. Ports effectively boost frequencies, and you cant mic the cab at a distance because your room is rubbish acoustically. Cabinet emulators try to achieve something not dismilar, and some of them are pretty convincing. CLose micing is capturing very limited parts of the sound put out by the cab as a whole. I'm currently recording for my band, and have been laying down bass tracks all week. I spent an evening going through combinations of cabs, pickup settings, mics and DI, and all sorts of options. Eventually came up with a set of parameters that gave me what I feel is a really good starting point, its a really thick meaty tone, not too growly and just what I was after. Thing is it doesnt matter how I did it, it wont be the tone in your head, so there's no point me trotting out the recipe in full, it did involve two mics, and no DI, which is a first for me IIRC on a bass rig. You have to spend a lot of time experimenting, hours even, always listen with great headphones as you move mics around to find a sweet spot. If you are mixing more than one source then check the phase using your ears, meters and anything else to hand, in phase multiple sources get louder when summed, out of phase they dont (they may not get quieter but they do not get louder). Make recordings (yes multiple) comparing all the combinations to pick what is best - start with mics in standardosh places and just take instant decisions, what are the best two mics, choose, now. WHat cabs do they work on best, choose, now, where does each mic sound best on its own, choose, do they mix well there, or not, if so then you're done. I always record a DI as well, just in case I need something that the speaker/mic combo isnt giving me when it comes to mix time, but generally if I've put everything together right up to this point all the bass will need in the mix is maybe a little eq. I use compression on the way in when I record bass, but I'vew doen so for decades and am very comfortable with knowing the result I'm after. If you don't know your compressors inside out, leave compression for mix down, its far more forgiving that way... As for reamping, try not to, really, making a mix is hard enough without having to reenvisage every decision made during tracking up to that point, do your best to choose a path and stick right on it, mixing should ideally be done when you balance the faders, it never is, but thats the goal, track with that in mind!

Markbass Compressore You want levelling rather than pumping, it should be possible to achieve that with the MB no problem Remember slow the release more than normal, lowish ratio, attack around 30ms, threshold to suit <Note to self, stay the f*** out of compressor threads!>

About every two gigs - which are rarely less than a month apart Or directly before recording (you can eq out zing - but you cant eq out harmonic content, and I do like a bit of harmonic content)

Bach's Cello Suite No.1 In the original key, in the original octave

For what its worth the most inciteful pro player I've spent any time with at all was Herbie Flowers, I first met him in a studio in Brighton where I was tape oping in the very very early nineties. He was 'producing' a band of young up and coming chaps at the time. The most down to earth guy I've ever met in the music business ever. He didnt worry about the tech stuff, but he got them in the right mood (oh yeah maaaan), helped them with structures kept their quality of output up, and their moral sky high too. I had no idea who he was. He treated me with kindness and humanity from the moment he met me. I've subsequently met him many times, chatted to him a lot, heard what he had to say to my eldest when helping him, seen his generosity first hand as well. But the single most amazing thing was watching him play a load of those old tracks he cut in the 70's with his little band, and realising how incredibly musical he could make one note, where I would probably have played 6. When I asked him about it his simple answer was "They didnt pay me by the note though, did they Si". Genius!

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1423009884' post='2679659'] Totally agree. That was exactly my point on another thread. [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It would be much more [b]useful[/b] on here to have professional techs, sound engineers, luthiers, recording engineers, producers, tour managers etc. than pro players.[/font][/color] [/quote] Yes it would wouldn't it.... Apologies to everyone for being a part of pissing someone off who turned up out of no where and stated a fact that isn't actually true with an over enthusiastic rebuttel. I didn't knoiw he was a pro bassist who has done a million miles on the strength of his playing, and I dont really care, sorry. Then again why should that make any difference at all? What he said was his opinion (and stated incredibly rudely in the first place - although he subsequently deleted that post), he's welcome to it, my opinion was that what he said was in fact somewhat too black and white and not one he could back up with real data. The fact that he is a pro is not relevant to 99% of the people on this forum and the places they are playing so some of his advice wont marry up with their experiences, I gave the other view. Should we not have our own opinion and make it if it is in someway different from a player who can label themselves a pro for some reason? Seriously? We aren't allowed to respond to a pro if we don't agree with them. Can I suggest that everyone who is a pro must now declare themselves a pro in their avatar so I know when to keep my enormous gob shut then for fear of causing offense..... Or I could just follow him out the door if you'd all prefer Its rather like all the antagonism towards Bill Fitzmaurice and Alex Clabber though. And you wonder why they hardly ever post.

I'm getting sweaty in a very naughty place looking at this.....

Yeah, thats a LOT of investment into an amp, my sa450 was under £500 when I boight it (got a proce match with an online price) To be twice the amp the sa450 is wopuld take some doing to be honest. Still suffering though

My current rig is by far the best ive had Roscoe Century Standard 5 string Markbass sa450 Bergantino ae410 But I've got knee twitchingly heavy GAS for the new Bergantino map with built in dsp.... Oh and I play funky instrumental stuff with a fairly big band so the bass has to be reasonably prominent in the mix.

I've never heard the ip series at full chat but I had ago on one at a very normal solo practice level and it was very lovely indeed...

Get a hopup from screwfix Good for 150 kg Folds down Big enough and strong enough for a 410...

A cheap and cheerful condenser is cool, but how do you use it? Microphone placement is really important because it changes the sound drastically. Most cheap mics have a cardioid pattern. That is they are more sensitive in front than to the side and the back, at least above 1KHz. This is great as long as you point the Mic at your target, and you can use this to get a mellower tone by deliberately pointing off target. However the side effect of a polar pattern that is not omni is a tendency to get bass heavy as you get very close to the source. This is called proximity effect. Think late night radio DJs - although they will be using a large diaphragm dynamic Mic the effect is the same. This can be really good on some sources not so good on others. Crucially use your ears with closed back headphones when setting up mics. For vocals and other sources that move a lot of air, you will need a pop shield, a wire coat hanger bent into a one inch deep six inch across spiral with a 10 to 20 denier stocking over it will work perfectly in a pinch. Micing bigger instruments requires a bit more care, a rule of them is that you want to Mic no closer than the longest dimension of the sound board of the instrument if you care trying to capture the sound of the entire thing in one Mic. This is a long way with dbs or pianos. It's made even worse by the effect of room reflections, with a dynamic Mic you want to be no more than half the critical distance from the instrument in the room, or the result will be awash with reverbiness and sound very distant. This critical distance is the distance from the instrument where the volumes of reflections off the wall nearest the Mic is as loud as the sound directly from the source. In many rooms that makes close micing your only option, so with just one Mic 've sure to spend time listening as you change its position around the source, leave it where it sounds best in the mix as far as you've got at that point. This shouldn't take more than five minutes but it can save hours at mix down later.

Room to move is unheard of for us as a seven or eight piece, if we aren't in danger of falling over or stabbing a band member with a stick a horn or a head stock we are doing really well. Get your own little boogie thing going down, mine is pants verging on ridiculous but it's better than stationary. Don't stare at the fretboard, look punters in the eye and smile with them, they absolutely love this! Look at your bandmates, especially the lead instrument at a given moment, punters like that as a visual clue as to where that cool sound is coming from Most of all have a great time on stage in front of them, they will join in....

It will have an ae410 setting? And an ht210 + ht115 setting? Please say no.......

Thats very interesting. If its anything like the concept behind the IP line it will be all about maximising the speaker by very sensible management of the output to it. This may well end up being the bass 2.0 the T.C were claiming to deliver with their heads a couple of years ago. I havent had any amp GAS for several years, until now..... Damn!

The only thing wrong with the MXR is that it's lowest ratio is a bit too high to be an always on compressor IMO Fine for an effect compressor though

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1421361105' post='2660473'] Yes. I have one. It's called a Mac. I'll get me coat. [/quote] You jest....

Right, without metering you are really in trouble. The reason is the human ear has the ultimate expander/compressor/limiter technology built into it. The range of volumes you can actually hear and process is unbelievable, at the threshold of hearing the ear can pick up variations in pressure of 1 billionth of an atmosphere (less than an atom wwidth of movement, at the threshold of pain you are 130dB louder, or 10,000,000,000,000 times louder! It does this by being able to amplify quiet sounds and protect itself from louder sounds, so your sense of hearing naturally copes with too loud a signal (ie it has a limiter on the loud end and an amp on the quiet end). This is really really useful in nature, but the downside is you cant measure volume with your ear well at all. Certainly not less than 3dB without a comparative level to work with. So whilst its possible to set up a compressor on an instrument in a mix without metering (the chances are you'll tend to be heavy slightly handed about it even then) setting a compressor on an instrument without a mix to hear it in is really hard. How many people hear have played with a compressor and said I cant hear it unless I turn it right up, and then it ruins my dynamics because I cant play louder, when I dig in its the same volume? Thats because you cant hear the change in the envelope of the sound, your ears are not designed to be good at that, they're designed to cope with loud bangs and let you find food and avoid being eaten. So what can you do? Well, practice with a compressor with good metering first, and often. That really helps. Also if your amp has a clip light that can give you some clues (although many clip lights dont respond to very fast transients so well). Try the following:- Turn off the compressor Set the comp up with the fastest attack and slowest release Set the ratio to max and the threshold as high as possible (so even turned on you arent going to compress yet) Set the input on your amp so the clip light just, just comes on when you play normally Turn on the compressor Drop the threshold until you hear/feel the compressor grab the notes The clip light has probably stopped coming on at this point - its like a really really naff bit of metering! Open up the attack to about 25 to 30ms Speed the release up to about 70ms Drop the ratio down to 2:1 (or until when you play hard you still hear some difference and it doesnt feel like you are fighting the compressor) Change the makeup gain so that the clip light just just comes on when playing normally Play hard and turn the input gain down until the clip light stays off Turn the comp on and off, can you hear any difference? Maybe, maybe not (depends on the compressor 'action' and if it imparts some tonal change), but you are almost certainly pulling up to 3dB of compression on the loudest notes, without hearing or feeling it, which means a better more even signal to the amp, cab and punters. You should still be able to back off to play quieter without any problem, but it will just alter your signal a little in a helpful way in a gig. If you want a more obviously compressed sound shorten the attack time a little, find the sweet spot where you can hear it grab the end of the transient a little fo that classic pop sound for instance. Or play with the release time to try and get it pumping a touch (this is rather tempo dep[endant though so you should be careful of that). Hope this helps.....

Lalo Schiffrin is THE don for me too (my whole band are hugely influenced by his work, and that of Roy Budd) Since we've seen a tiny bit of Schiffrin, here's some of my favourites Roy Budd themes:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_n9WfCJmbM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Fc31-WIt8 And just one more from Lalo Schiffrin:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JMc1jwYQkI

I havent got round to liking everyone yet, but I intend to, mainly because I need the time to listen to all of them, because if I really dig the content I want to follow them, but if its not my bag I'd rather skip that bit (no offense chaps)

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1420675303' post='2652179'] I wish folks would qualify this idea. I'll say it again, it takes certain skills and resources to start a gigging band on your own. It's not an option for everyone. Blue [/quote] My long rambling post was trying to do just that. Oops, fail Its so simple though, the only skills you need to start a band are an idea, and persistence. You dont need to play well or at all really, enough electronica and punk acts started out of a desire to make a sound and no real knowledge of music to prove this Getting people to buy into your idea is as simple as engaging the right people, which happens if you take the time to find them, it took me about ten years before I found the first two people who would be the right people for my band, but I did eventually find them. The right people are the ones who want to join your band provided you give them accurate information about what you are about. As for resources, I used anything to hand to try and connect to people who might fit, I met the drummer taking my son to music classes where his son went, and we got talking, I met the guitarist on bandmix, because I liked one of his tracks (as in I clicked like, he found me on facebook as a result of liking what I put up there on bass and seeing that I had liked his track - interesting dynamic), I found the trombonist as I work with him (had done for a couple of years, had no idea he played an instrument - result!), he brought the trumpet player, he wouldnt play unless she did as well, they come as a pair (double result). The gap between the first two getting involved and the second two was over a year, when the horns came we already had a set, it took another 9 months before we grew further. The keys player I found via gumtree. The percussionist saw us at a gig and wanted to play with us, she is by far the most qualified member of the band (MA from the Royal College of Music - that carries plenty of weight with me). The more of a band and a set you have, the easier it is to get good musicians interested though.

And I helped out with the PA in the car park of a big hotel off the M25 last year. I forget where exactly, but damn fine burgers were available too (nom). Your drummer put a stick through his snare and the quick change of snare whilst your 'Brian' took his solo slot was hilarious Great band, thoroughly entertaining bunch, go and see them if you get a chance!

I've been in bands on and off for 25 years now. At one time I was in more than 5 bands, but I was dedicating all my time to music then, and you're right that covers a huge amount of ground when it comes to the different types of payback you can get from being in a band. Then real life took over and my lifestyle changed, now I'm in one band, its a project I had in the back of my mind for over ten years that I have tried to get off the ground a couple of times before, each failed and I learnt a lot from those failures. Main take aways were that the concept for the band was really sound but would only work with exactly the right people involved at the core. Every band has to have a concept, even if its just go in a room with some mates and make noise, but the better you can define that concept before trying to get partners in crime the less likelihood of disappointment and unrest there will be IME. So if you are looking for a band and get an audition for someone, really see if you can spot a well targetted concept when you meet them, it will drive pretty much everything about the band, the line up, set/style, look of the band and anything that can be considered as stand out about the band comes from an interesting concept IME. If you are looking to start a band then really spend some time to find a niche concept, the easiest one is as a tribute band, sure you have to spend some time learning material and get some thrift store clothes to sort of match and maybe a wig, but 95% of the thinking was already done by the original band. Which is a big part of why there are so many tribute bands out there getting paid for gigs to play covers. A niche is important though, you want to stand out, but appeal to a lot of people based upon genre or scene, so a niche or clever variation can make all the difference IME. Having had my concept up and running and progressing for a couple of years some other truths have become crystal clear, firstly always always set expectations super clearly with all the members of the band, and keep them the same for everyone. This is actually trickier than it sounds, you need a reliable core to the band, but in my case we have core members and then a series of other musicians who are maybe a step away from that core, the main reason is the core members directly contribute to compositions, but the other slightly more satellite members are less involved in this, either they are given the music they need to play by a section leader, or their parts are icing on the cake and they are so good that they can create brilliant parts from the now existing arrangements that are perfect compliments to what has been put together already. There is a definite cross over of these twop main areas, and I've found members to become more core as their tenure with the band increases, for instance our keys player was a late addition, but his ideas have become integral to the music we have, and he has become less icing and more core as a result. Gigging without him is nowhere near as good as gigging with him (always a sign that a member is now integral). However even the satellite players are bringing a part of themselves to the role they play in the band and without them the band is far less impressive sounding and looking, so they are equal in all other regards within the band, they just dont need to make every rehearsal if we are in a composing mode, but when we are leading up to a gig they have to be their to get the set rehearsals right. Our bass trombonist doesnt write anything, but he is integral to the sound of the band, is a lovely chap, reliable and an excellent player, he's worth his weight in chocolate coins so he is! This matches where your expectations should be as a player joining a band as well though, in the first instance expect to be less a core member, even if you play on every song (unless you are a founder member), even as a bass player there is a period where you can expect to be working your way into the band playing some other guy's parts to a greater extent, but with time you will become a core member of the band because they can't gig without you, or you'll be binned as a poor fit. Expectations are driven by some simple things, how much you are getting to be in the band, be that in terms of financial reward or musical gratification, versus the amount of effort required to be a member of the band. And getting that balance right is the be all and end of getting a band to gel happily and progress IME. Everyone has to know where they stand wrt the money, and they need to know that any money they dont get is going back into the band (recording, photoshoots/video, rehearsal time, PA hire, transport, materials - doesnt matter, you have to keep everyone clear about where that little trickle of cash is actually going), and every once in a while a decent paying gig begin divvied up with everyone is a real win for a niche originals band, I can assure you. We dont get big paying gigs normally, but we do get huge musical satisfaction, the band exists because of that satisfaction, we are all trying to create great music to play in front of people, and that has attracted more, and better musicians as time has gone on. The caliber of musician you are looking to play with must be in your mind every time soneone else trys out, you dont want to be teaching anyone how to play your music or their instrument, if they dont have the chops, or the knowledge of the genre/niche/concept you are better off waiting for someone else than having them in the band, they will just dilute the goal and slow progress down. So expect to be turned away from auditions where you dont fit that band's concept pretty exactly fairly often, unless you have command of a wide range of styles really under your fingertips. Its not you, its just you aren't what they want, its a sign of a band with a target if they take time to choose the right players, its a good thing if you see this once you are in a band IMO! Similarly no one wants to put up with an arsehat, so coming across as the big I am or in any way being a potential PIA negates any ability in a genre/niche/conept to get in the bands, no one os that good that they can be a PIA and get into a good band, so be nice, be respectful, be fun, be positive and always be reliable. Fail on any of those points and expect to be asked to leave sooner or later. Or the band will fold IME, because the rest of the members will leave you to it and find something else to do.. Finally have goals, that are achievable for each year, last year we were after firming up the line up, getting to a two set in a night with some extra tracks thrown in to allow us to rotate those sets for our own sanity and play some gigs where we really connected with the audience - even better if it was in a new town with a new audience. Simple goals, we achieved them all to varying degrees, we are a solid 7 piece, but one of the 7 can't always make it (they are so wildly excellent asa musician and a real icing on the cake so they are in regardless, its rather nice to have a player of their calibre desperate to be in your band whenever they can be), we are still looking for an 8th member (a third horn) we had a try out but he's too busy to commit at all, so he's not going to make it, we have some leads, and we played some great gigs this year including a blinder in London, huge tick! Another goal was to play some festivals in 2015, and we've just been asked to play the Elderflower Festival this May, which is a lovely way to start the year, knowing we have a highlight gig (for us) in the bag, the whole band is uper fired up over landing this gig, to some people it may be a little festival and no big deal, but remember, we a rea seriously niche originals band who have got there by word of mouth and people seeing us live, it means a lot to people who are getting not much other than musical satisfaction that other people are really rating our endeavours. So if the band you find yourself in has no new goals, set some and work out how to make them happen, or you will stagnate in just a few months. And then the band will start to fall apart. If you cant find a band like this, then start your own, but be prepared to do pretty much all the leg work yourself, band leaders have to exist in every band, or they lose direction, but a benevolent dictator with a heart of gold is the only band leader you should care to work with unless they are paying you a decent chunk of cold hard cash. Its also the only type of band leader you can afford to be unless you are getting serious gigs in that pay well enough to make playing for you worth the pain you will be in the arse of the musicians working for you. Starting a new band is a long term endeavour, you arent going to be playing headlining gigs to full houses within a year, thats for sure, but its amazingly rich in its rewards nevertheless.... Sorry for the essay!