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Oh to hell with it, in for a penny, in for a pound I'm still rather pleased with this old thing I mixed for Kit Richardson, I didnt get to track a bit of it, so there was plenty of twisting things to my will all the way through, I think it sounds pretty splendid as mixes go, it could be a little better in a couple of places, but you can always think in retrospects of changes you might make to improve something:- [url="http://kitrichardson.bandcamp.com/album/submission-chords"]http://kitrichardson...bmission-chords[/url] Entirely mixed in the box, soundcard is an RME UCX, plenty of different listening systems from floorstanding monitors to mobile phones and reference cans to cheap earbuds. There is absolutely masses going on in some of these tracks, but the point is you can't hear all of it in one listen. Do enjoy! Bear in mind though, if you aren't listening on £100,000 worth of monitoring kit, it shoudl still sound bloody fantastic.....

Discreet, mate, I can assure you I have access to some very very nice systems for comparative listening purposes. A great set up for me is a pair of reference quality cans plugged into my UCX, but thats not nearly expensive enough to assuage some people I can also assure you that a well encoded 320kbps mp3 of decent material (ie not crushed) is virtually impossible to tell from a wav in a double blind test. Because I've tried it with myself and some other people (some engineers, some 'golden eared' audiophile naysayers). There are some types of material where it does become noticeable, but to my ear its only stuff thats been rogered with clipping in the wav, and that clipping then becomes more obvious in the encoding process (or is it the minute ratio between peaks and average level that screws up the algorithm? I'm not sure). Never got better than a 50/50 reult in 3 different tests, I know I'm such a laugh to hang out with .... Thanks for considering me childlike though

Best gig I've ever seen in my life was Chic at Love Supreme last year, without a doubt the most energetic professional note perfect engaging and breathtaking performace (of well over an hours material) I have ever seen. If I'd only known what we have learnt on this thread, then I would have done the right thing and turned tail and walked out the moment I noticed the ipads on the horn sections stands and the keyboard player's stand. Dammit I was conned, how do I get my money back? Seriously, though, music stands can be fine even on an uptempo pub gig for those bands that can actually get away with it IMO. Horns regularly use them, my own horn section use stands, and we have long improvised sections where the horn section lead chooses what each player is goin gto play at a given moment in some cases, in others she is capable of writing out parts on the fly for two other players by ear, whilst working out her own part and harmonising further with a vocal harmoniser on her trumpet. You cant do that with a tablet! To clarify the horns take a break in an improv section for 8 bars whilst someone else is taking some spotlight, or just as a dynamic rest, in which she can come up with a new part for the section, communicate it to them and be ready to count it in in 8 bars. Its unbelievably impressive! Last gig we played was in a pub in North East London, we had two music stands fo rthe horns, none for anyone else. We have never played this place before, but the punters are there to hear funk (funk DJs playing before we went on, lovely selection of rare groove). We aren't your archetypal happy funk band, we're really dark instrumental jazz tinged funk inspired by the likes of Lalo Schifrin and Roy Bud circa 70-75 (nichje or what!). No one left because of the stands, no one commented on the stands, the gig went brilliantly, masses of compliments in between the sets, and people dancing for the entire show. I personally think the fact that we have really tightened the gaps between the tracks up and the fact that ther is enough to look at (I boogie around a bit and am very focused on as my eye contact with punters as possible, the rest of the band are in various states of 'in the zone') mean that no one is off put by the stands. Hell we even had people commenting on what a great keys player we have, and he had to sit off stage (not enough room), - fair play though he is very very funky, but thats still not natural . I am the first to admit we were in the right venue on the right night with the right crowd, but we had a blinding gig and entertained a packed venue to a huge collection of punters. Music stands are irrelevant to that IME.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1418907936' post='2634698'] I do, but tbh cannot be bothered with another argument /coat [/quote] With all due respect your description of steps and adding noise is nonsense, please read the article I posted (http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html), in particular the section '[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=3]Sampling fallacies and misconceptions[/size][/font]' which describes how you are wrong. Noise is a function of bit depth not sampling rate, and at 24bit is less than any analogue medium, whiilst at 16bit the dynamic range (ie available volume above the noise floor) is so great as to be a non issue in all but the widest dynamic range music (big hint here, that aint anything other than experimental electronica)

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1418900775' post='2634578'] [b]Digitising music inherently introduces noise as music volume is quantised (or rounded to the nearest 'step')[/b]. However the biggest impact imho is the compression 'war' where every producer tries to get their track to stand out and sound powerful. This is easily noticed in shouty TV adverts that sound so much louder than the program you've just been watching. It has the effect of squeezing all of the 'air' out of a recording [/quote] This is utter nonsense, you clearly do not understand how this stuff actually works in practice, Nyquist ( the guy who can be credited for coming up with sampling theory mathematically proved the minimum number of samples required to [b]accurately reproduce[/b] a waveform as a function of its highest frequency. That accurately reproduce is important, because it means the result of converting the sample back into analogue produces a result that is [b]exactly[/b] equivalent to the original sampled input. In other wiords they are identical. Of course run that through a load of electronics, and an amp, and turn it into sound via a transceiver and that will have an affect, but the actual d/a conversion wont. 44.1KHz achieves that for sound (since not a single person on this forum can hear above 20KHz, now or ever in their life), you really really dont need recording/playback at any higher samplerate, the only time this isnt true is if you want to be able to have less severe filtering above the maximum required sampled input frequencey up to the sample frequency. It can be useful to have higher sample rates if you are going to go on to do some form of mathematical function on the waveform to change it ( ie digital eq/compression/whatever), because that can provide greater accuracy in the result. Read this exceptional article on sample rates and their current misuse here:- http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Compression confuses people who love to bemoan various aspects of modern sounding records. Lossy compression (mp3s for instance) refers to file size compression using algorithms that bin parts of the original recording deemed not important. I guarantee that no one on this forum can detect a 320kbps mp3 against an original 16bit 44.1KHz wav on any speakers they wish to use with any accuracy in double blind testing. Compression as a 'very bad thing' as a part of the loudness wars, actually refers to using various techniques to get the softer part of the recording closer in volume to the loudest part using multiband compression/limiting/automated gain riding breverse comression etc. The point being the misunderstanding (amoongst suits and bean counters mainly) that the loudest product sells best, or more importantly can be heard on the radio in the car. This 'war' goes waaaaaayyy back to Motwon vs The Beatles where the loudest 7" won on the jukebox (Motown beign very upset with The Beatles ability to get more grunt than them). Modern recording techniques and technology far exceed anythign achievable up until now. Vinyl is without doubt a far worse medium in terms of sonic performance than digital is. People can enjoy the 'vinyl experience' all they like, and more power to them, but in critical testing in a double blind scenario it does not sound better than digital, that is a fallacy, largely put forward by the snakeoil loving audiophile nutters. If you cant measure it, people, it aint there. Now, enough defending the tech, the awful truth is digital has been roundly abused for level for years, this includes eqing to make things psychoacoustically louder (more 2KHz - now dammit!) extreme limiting of peaks and clipping even for that last 0.1 dB of average level (ratios of average level to peak are the lowest they have been in history in thye pop 'chart'). You cannot do the same to vinyl because you just pop the needle out of the damn groove when the bass comes in. Add to this the fact that the louder the recording the worse the artifacts on an lossly compressed file and the amount of recordings done by people with a mac and no clue in a sh*t room and finally your preference for the sound of eighties style production and you have all the reasons you could ever need to think its all rubbish now. Its not all rubbish now, but a lot is, and its not the technology used to blame, its the way its abused or misused. In my not remotely humble opinion

Totally brilliant gig at The Red Lion in Leytonstone last night! Great crowd, well into their funk danced all through both sets and demanded an encore. Had the best time, can't wait to go back

Bastards...

Where did you record this? Did you pay money to have someone track this? (Hint, dont go back, I dont care how cheap they were) Who mic'ed the drums, and how? (Hint: they really need to rethink their process!)

Hmmmm, as a demo is it supposed to be played to anyone outside the band? Serious question. The least of your problems is the bass fret noise! And one that can be fixed really easily with eq and or frequency dependant compression. That's a [i]terrible[/i] snare sound, and I cant really hear anything much on the kick. The drumming is pretty poor timing-wise (hihats are shocking in a few places), enough to need some careful editing to sort out. Some of the guitar needs replaying, its not very in time Is that distorted guitar DI'ed? because its a nasty fizzy sound if it isnt. The vocals are all over the place level-wise, I suspect they are the redeeming feature of the track as well which makes the poor mix even more of a shame. Thats a really honest (and harsh sounding) critique of the recording, sorry, really, I think you could maybe fix some of this with mixing, the snare could be replaced easily for instance, the fizzy guitar could be re-amped, the bass is a doddle to fix, the drumming needs careful editing, the vocals need work in terms of getting them to 'sit' in the mix. Keep working on it, and listen hardfer to your tracking, its [i]all[/i] about getting gfreat sounds down to 'tape' first.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1418220731' post='2628084'] It's his band, his rules. After having my offer of wedges knocked back I assumed he thought it was maybe acting as a barrier between him and audience. Spent a decent amount of money on a new Behringer205D which I could then have unobtrusively next to me and at least I'd be able ot hear my bvox OK. Lasted 3 gigs in which he whined about being able to hear it and it putting him off (as he was so far forward and the monitor was at my side it was basically pointing directly away from him most of the time) before it became clear I shouldn't bring it in future. It's now sitting at home waiting until I [b]join another band[/b]. [/quote] There's you answer, this chap is a bit of a knob frankly, and will never be able to play anywhere bigger than the dog and duck.

We don't have a singer But its not impossible for our lead trumpet to blow herself out and need a breather (for the lip really) but she is hitting the highest of high notes regularly on her horn at max volume on at least one track, so a mid set break is required.....

My advice, save up for a day in a big rehearsal studio Mic the drums, DI the bass, Line6 POD for guitar. Track the drums, then in your own time overdub the other stuff 'properly' You cant do what you want without a decent space and its going to be loud, but a day in a rehearsal studio is not too expensive at all.

I enjoyed it, but they really stuck to the most obvious, didn't catch the beginning but didn't hear any Neville Brothers or Meters, which is criminal. As for being only accessable to black Americans, every time PFunk played in Blighty there was a mixed audience, when I saw them it was more white than black. Plus they did emphasize the SATFS integration message too....

HJ what can I say, we are merely pawns in the game of life, the majesty of West London has not yet beckoned, for which I am forever sorry. We have managed to take an hour and a half off your journey time though..... Also if you can get us a gig in West London that will cover our costs plus a little bit we'd be delighted to play closer to you. We have no contacts that way. We only got this gig because the proprietor was walking passed us playing a gig in Brighton, came in to see us and offered us the gig the minute we finished our set.....

Mister Super Juice will be visiting the big smoke on 13th December over in Leytonstone at The Red Lion with our particular brand of funky cinematic instrumental music. Bands on around 9:30, license till 2:00.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1417542814' post='2621551'] Nice one Simon, now if you could please translate that into English for me, I would be very grateful [/quote] Errrr, nope, cant do it without talking in terms of ratio vs threshold. You are better off reading up the Compression 101 link I posted?

[quote name='Paultrader' timestamp='1417277073' post='2618797'] No compression for me - I can't bear hearing my notes clipped. [/quote] Hmmmm, depending on how you set up a compressor you can get up to 6dB of compression without even knowing its happening from the sound or feel, I achieved this for Urb at a bass bash a couple of years ago with just a couple of minutes tweaking. Similar results for SilverfoxNik a year or so before that. Simple thing is if you can feel it its set with too low a threshold for the ratio, if your compressor can't go down to a ration of less than 2:1 then its not really fit for anything other than hitting transients IME. The best use for a compressor live is closer to 1.25:1 with a low threshold IMO, that way its always working, but you cant feel it hurting you when you dig in, yet every note is a bit less different in volume to all those around it. Follow that up with a limiter set to catch the nastiest peaks only and you are 100% golden.

For the quickest way to tune a kick drum check out [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga8Q12mKYxI"]this video[/url] (it works a treat) Buy a Red5 Audio kick drum mic [url="http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html"](bottom of this page)[/url] - its very very good for the cash Mic the drum by putting this mic right up to the hole in the resonant head, pointing as directly at the point where the beater strikes the batter head. You can experiment with the exact distance from the kick - the sound can change with a change Your PA should handle it fine, provided you aren't daft and listen to the output, if it starts to fart out you are pushing too hard, I've run kicks through reasonable vocal PAs plenty of times and as long as you arent expecting great big PA style oomph and are sensible you'll be fine. As for EQ, the enemy of most kick drum sounds in a big PA is the low mids (around 300-400Hz), but in a smaller vocal PA you arent going to get much low end so your best bet is to aim for something more 70s sounding (a lot more mids, and less bass), you're only trying to get a bit more out front with that kind of PA, not shake the foundations.

Here's a little example from that drum tracking session, I've not done much to the tracks at all yet, really I've balanced the levels with some simple top and tailing eq, drums are deliberately prominent, and there are a couple of little edits in there. Everything else is intended to be overdubbed anyway - added some reverb for the trumpet (recorded in the vocal booth to minimise spill its sounds like poop unless you put a decent plate verb on it). Its just an mp3 up to Soundcloud and I can hear artifacts in the cymbals from their conversion process I'm afraid, but its a reasonable indicator nonetheless. https://soundcloud.com/mistersuperjuice/produce-the-juice-drums/s-0tpW8

Compression is very misunderstood I wrote this a while ago to help people set up a compressor for bass:- http://web.archive.org/web/20130215154741/http://blog.basschat.co.uk/setting-up-a-compressor/ I use compression live, low ratio very low threshold to just increase the fatness a touch, and to sculpt the transients if I'm slapping. FOH would be great, except I don't trust most live sound people with a bass tone. Mixing I use all sorts of tools to improve everything, but compression and eq are the cornerstone of good mixing.

Yep, I used them on all sorts, guitar cabs, trumpet. Their one potential issue is that they are prone to bass lift if you get too close, but be aware of that and they're fine. The only other thing I'm not thrilled about is that the bodies are very slippery in mic clips, and the clips that come with them are utter gash. Other than that they are surprisingly good for the money IMO, but I would doubt they are as hard wearing as Shure mics (I havent had them long enough to know if they are bullet proof)

I'd suggest you read this fine article off our old blog, that no longer exists:- http://web.archive.org/web/20130215154741/http://blog.basschat.co.uk/setting-up-a-compressor/

Have a great day chaps, I wont make it I'm afraid, but make a little bit too much noise for me

Drum mic kits seem great, but they are a pain in some ways because they dont always work well on other sources My recommendations for a cheap way to mic drums with mics that are good for the task, and useful on other sources:- Overheads - Pair of LineAudio CM3s (dont skimp on the OHs, they are the real sound of you kit, and these mics are absolutely amazing) - always equidistant from the snare Kick drum - Red5Audio kick mic - great for right in the resonant skin hole to capture the punch, I also like a mic in front of the kit up to a couple of feet away to capture the low end, I have built kick tunnels before for good seperation on this mic (a Bruce Swedian trick, and he has forgotten more about recording drums than any of us will ever know). You have to play with the two mics to get the position of the outer one just right Snare - an SM57, or a HEil PR28 ideally, this is the character of your drummers kit, his signature, a decent mic on here is important, a Sennheiser e835 can be great on snare too Toms - Prodipe TT1 - yep, 3 in a box for £63 from [url="http://www.woodbrass.com/en/chant-et-voix-dynamique-main-prodipe-tt1-pro-pack-ludovic-lanen-p163262-af833-gbp.html?gclid=CJzMpomt0sECFSYIwwod6E8Aow"]here[/url] these are ridiculously good for the money, quite like the Sennheiser MD421 in sound, a lot of proximity effect so back them off a bit, but they do a great job on rack toms, and at a push the floor tom, but if you want something that will handle the floor tom really well the AT Pro 25 can be found pretty cheap. Core mic - this is an unusual mic for people not used to drum micing, you basically jam it in under the snare between the kick and snare to capture the sound in there amongst all the gubbins, position is important take some time over this bad boy! I like to use something omni, and with some character, go for an old omni dynamic off ebay, something small can be a help to get it right in there (I have an old beaten up AT804 I use in there). I generally mash the crap out of this track with heavy compression and saturation and just bring it in a bit to keep everything from sounding too clean and sparkly. Of course you can get away with that third prodipe TT1 in here if you only have two toms or a dedicated floor tom mic. This track can be the thing that makes your drums kick arse rather than sound too clean jazz, great on pretty much any drum recording though for some mojo. BTW watch the phase on this mic, usually its out of phase with the rest of the kit, but not always, trust your ears! Micing drums is all about a great sounding kit in a good room and position, position, position.... If anyone is interested the mic clamps are Stage Ninga Scorpian Mic Clamps (MIC-12-CB):- Which look very rude indeed, but do do a good job of holding a mic in place all day