51m0n

Whilst nothing will 'go wrong' mic position on a bass cab is IME a bit more of a dark art than mic position on a guitar cab. Regardless of what guitarists may have you believe a guitar cab is a pretty stoneage thing, effectively there are a number of transducer ranging from 1 to 4 all of which do the same job, ie they are 'full range' for which read they all attempt to do the same thing and are in afact a complex mechanical bandpass filter knocking out the extreme low end (ie sub 70Hz) and 'extreme' top end (ie anything over 8KHz) whilst also dampening transients to a greater or lesser extent. In contrast a modern bass cab is ported, and has a tweeter, so getting the mic position bang on to deliver all that the cab produces is really difficult when close micing ( amust on stage due to the spill). Which is why a mic on a bass cab should concentrate on the cone for the mid range, and a DI should be used for the bottom end, because getting a mic to capture the port output at a decent level and the midrange at the same time is pretty tricky. That just leaves getting the DI and mic in phase, but any engineer worth his salt should know exactly how to do that.....

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1384761832' post='2280277'] PA engineers mic up guitar cabs all the time. How is a mic'd up bass cab more likely to go wrong? [/quote] + about a million! What the hell is so likely to go wrong micing a cab exactly? Cos we mic drum kits, guitar amps, horm sections, leslie speakers, vocalists all the time, what exactly is wrong with micing a bass cab, do we need extra insurance in case the mic gets miffed?

Thomann SC140:- [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc140.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...tbone_sc140.htm[/url] £39.99 Somewhat better physical design then the C1 since the diaphragm is closer to the end of the mic (less of a lip or recess for sound to reflect off). Gets a big thumbs up from Michael Joly of Oktavamod mic mods. For the money it sounds good. If you want a mic that sounds great for almost any money than a Line Audio CM3 is absolutely stellar, comparable with £700+ mics from Schoeps and DPA for about £120. I have a stereo pair and they are absolutely killer mics.

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1384540749' post='2278012'] This may have been mentioned , but if you can get the core band up and running with structures, then attracting good brass players to join in on already established material might be easier ? [/quote] That's what we did...

[size=5][color=#008000]Oh Matron![/color][/size]

You cant have mine

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1384442887' post='2276762'] How about a Electro voice RE-20. My favourite sounding mic [/quote] Yep, this is another classic mic for bass cabs (and vocal broadcast mic, like the Heil PR40, but older)

[quote name='pantherairsoft' timestamp='1384434096' post='2276609'] This! Amazing bass cab mic - Though only if you want hifi - VERY revealing and raw. If you want to capture real low end it's amazing. Also it's Amazing on.... Guitar Cabs Vocals Overheads Snares Stage Mic Kazoo Er... Everything. Basically it's the best mic on the planet in my humble and insignificant opinion. [/quote] LOL! Guess thats one steer that worked out ok then mate I reckon you're probably right in terms of bang for the buck. And I certainly wouldnt say raw, I would say accurate. If you dont want flattery, but would rather capture the sound as is, then the CM3 is just spine tingling for the cash, you really really need to be looking in the £700 to £800 plus area in small diaphragm condensors to get anything remotely better. And we are talking better due to really really subtle differences, and maybe slightly higher output... A lot of people who record classical are using these now, not in place of Schoeps and DPA which they all tend to have, but in addition to. I use my pair of CM3s every time I record, and they are just, brilliant..... They also do an OM1 now which is an omni condensor, by all accounts its even flatter than the CM3, another staggering mic!

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1384425822' post='2276489'] You could do a lot worse than a Heil PR40... [/quote] Stunning mic for bass and kick drum, and baritone vocal. Very expensive though!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1384361502' post='2275708'] Bass drum mics are a terrible idea since they have an EQ curve designed to flatter the bass drum and therefore if you use one on the bass guitar cab as well all that happens is the two fight for the same EQ space. [/quote] +1 Here's a tip for a really cheap alternative to an sm57, Prodipe TT1 Pro, £39.99 I thankyewwverrymuch..... I would always suggest if you are micing a cab live to get the 'grit' of your rig across, and you have the time, then couple that with a DI for the low end and the very sparkly top end, its very very hard to mic a cab such that the driver (which provides the mids) is properly balanced with the port (which provides the lows) and the tweeter (if you have one). If you need to mic (ie you use distortion and need the cone to filter out the top end hash) then use a mic on the best sounding driver in your cab, blend with a DI, but cut anything over 100Hz out of the DI signal. Better yet send the two channels to a group and apply a bit of subtle compression to help glue it all together. Its a faff, but the result sounds a lot better. If you really cant send a DI as well spend a minute some time to work out a really nice mic placement that carries enough real low end (ie sub120Hz) wallop from the port as well as grit from the cone photograph the mic position with your phone and show the sound guy the picture saying you have spent time working this out. In this case an SM57 is probably not the best choice, but neither is a kick drum mic, you need a fairly flat mic to do it justice, and that gets expensive as hell. The Prodipe TT1 does go lower than a 57 though, in my experiments at least (I got them for tom mics, but they are surprisingly versatile, and can sound really nice on some vocals too), it has a pretty decent chance of doing your rig justice, as long as you get the position right.... Another (more expensive) excellent mic for this is the Line AUdio CM3. Awesome little mic, will handle pretty serious level, and about as flat as you could need, with great low end extension. Its a condensor and will require phantom power, but is tiny, very discreet and outperforms most other SDC mics up to the Schoeps/DPA level, yet only cost about £150 Shepo got one for micing his behemoth of a rig and really really digs it....

I love that mate, great bas sound, but what a fab groove!

Sorry chaps I am completely snowed what with work and recording stuff I need to take care of, I haven't had a minute to give it a thought if I'm honest. In fact I would be lying if I said I was going to have any time for the forseeable -[b] big [/b]recording personal project starting up - probably not till well into the new year the way its going. Sorry

Have a great gig Nige!

I'm effectively the leader in my band, I tell you what its a real juggling act. On the one hand I really really value the experience and expertise of all the current band members, not to mention their continued hard graft as we try and get a set of really interesting and engaging music together. I want to inspire them to bring their best to every rehearsal, encourage and never show any sign of frustration when things go wrong, especially when its out of our control etc etc At the same time I want to keep guiding the band toward a reasonably specific vision for the music we are making. Generally its apparent that the players are all excellent, the guitarist has a huge (really huge) stock of old ideas he can pull on at any given time, the drummer can play anything at all that I can imagine and the horn section are a brilliantly tight nit little team that work together in several bands (never had a major clash yet so thats not an issue). I am truly lucky to have found these people! Just recently we have started moving on from that first flush of joy that we are making music we like, and started to get a bit more serious about polishing the final result. I can't tell you how much trepidation I approached this with, they are all good players, they are doing it for fun and the joy that creating and playing gives, and I've never been the final say on QA in a band before. And I really cant afford to ruin anyone's day and have them get all upset! So stopping a track two or three times in a row on the second chorus section because we were driting off the feel (its a 'problem' track in that it can easily start to feel a bit ploddy if we arent all really on it) was a gamble. Not really knowing how they would react was nervewracking, and I'm not someone who hormally gives to figs about pushing people a bit. Interestingly it was nothing but positive, quite simply everyone (myself included) just upped their game a huge great chunk and rung the neck of not just this track, but everything we played afterwards. And then complimented each other on how well we'd collectively pulled our socks up. It seems, a bit of constructive criticism of the band (totally inclusive, I know I'm as guilty as any of them on this track, and terrible at getting structures right) just got the best out them, And everyone approved. I think I'm learning more about getting good results from people in a team situation running this band than I have from anything else I've ever done. But its still nervewracking and outside my comfort zone. Fortunately the band seem to be willing to put up with my fumbling efforts to get something excelletn created.... But being the band 'leader' is a hugely different thing than being in the band, I am only just begging to get a handle on it in truth...

[b]Microphone 101[/b] Dynamic Microphone Effectively a speaker in reverse, but tiny. Literally has a diaphragm that moves a coil in a magnet to generate electrical energy in time with the sound pressure change it senses. Robust design, often used on drums and guitar amps, sometimes on vocals (ie Blood Sugar Sex Magic lead vocal was recorded on a Shure SM7B, as was Thriller) Condenser Microphone Has a diaphram that is conductive and acts as one plate of a capacitor, typically this is very very thin indeed, and therefore light, and therefore picks up detail in the high end and transients more accurately than a dynamic microphone. Requires 48v phatom power to run. An electret mic is similar but has the charge built in effectively. There are two flavours of condensor Large Diaphragm and Small Diaphragm, Large is typically your big sexy studio vocal mic, small is your go to studio mic for things like drum overheads, acoustic guitars etc etc. Ribbon Microphone A ribbon mic uses a corrugated strip of aluminium foil several microns thick suspended between a pair of magnets. Its an old fashioned design, is prone to damage from wind, but has a lovely rounded tone compared to the other two, its ribbon is so heavy and slow to react compared to both the above that it effectively behaves as a mechanical limiter. Sounds fantastic on a guitar amp, or as a drum OH or room mic or for horns or percussion, anywhere where not have wodges of top end is a good thing.

The XLR lineout from your amp may be line level (it is on Markbass amps), which will overload thecrap out of those inputs.

I have an H4n and it's superb

Do yourselves a favour buy a Zoom H2 for recording rehearsals You dont need a desk you need to hear the sound you make in the room

No, I get lockjaw though Janek Gwizdala is pretty vocal when he's playing, he reckons it helps his phrasing a lot....

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1383569579' post='2265904'] Silly question, can you get multi track mixers that also have a recording function so that we can use the same desk to record ourselves and deal with a PA? [/quote] Problem with that is that what goes through the PA is not all that is heard in the room, and so you cant really get a fantastic mix off just the PA inputs as a rule, and as with all rules in sound engineering someone has managed to break it under special circumstances but its generally accurate, certainly in smaller venues. Of course if you have mega cash then you can do it with an RME UFX and a pair of the new RME 8 channel pres or a pair of the audient ASP008s giving you 20 inputs on stage, and crucially the RME TotalMix software. You wouldnt use a mixing desk at all, and the way the TotalMix software works you can capture everything to disk at sensible levels, but only put what you need to through the PA. Thats the Germans for you, utter genius bit of software! In fact with the UFX you can record directly to an SD drive at the same time as a backup incase you get a disk write fail or an OS error. Seriously clever stuff. Of course you are looking at spending the better part of 4 grand (not including laptop, mics and leads etc) but what does that matter!

Pulled the trigger on an Audient asp008 today.... Its still not here (twiddles thumbs), still not here....... Gaaaaaaaarghhhh!

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383319373' post='2263148'] It's alright , I didn't mean you . Or at least statistically speaking, it's very unlikely, anyway . But probably less unlikely than if you lived in Middlesborough. [/quote] You must have meant me then, I dont remember, it was a heavy evening......

Reaper for the DAW is the best bang for the buck. 8 channel interfaces go for a Steinberg UR824 - gets a lot of love for good pres, decent software, decent converters for the money. Not top of the tip top kit, but good enough fo rmost home applications easily. You could happily record an album with it for sure. 2 channel (expandable via adat) then you are looking at an RME Babyface or Audient iD22 (which doesnt do midi so you would need a midi interface too - more infor on their site), with the option to get whatever 8 channel device you want later (Audient ASP008 is the best out there). If thats too much outlay to start then Focusrite Scarlet series gets a lot of love n the budget range of kit. But you really do get what you pay for in recording I'm afraid.

Nige, bloody awesome track and great, truly entertaining video, only let down by the lack of the Nigester exuding hipness to all around Love and hugs to the lot of you!