51m0n

A really great insight into the thought processes behind the roles I mentioned above can be found in Mixerman's Zen and the Art of Mixing/Tracking/Producing trilogy. Great books, entertaining and educational in equal measure. His Diary of Mixerman book is absolutely hilarious too! https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/096004051X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_1MJK8DZQ1N6XK0F6RF9X https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1480387436/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_4ZH2733AC77AE8E7B601 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08QBHB47L/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_YHCR8FB3N8QEWM17X4A0 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009T9XERO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_76ZBVYNNPAV7SD1ZTK4B

When it comes to creating a recording I am really not sure I agree with you at all. A band's sound on a recording is very much a team effort between the band, producer, tracking engineer, mix engineer and mastering engineer. These days these extra roles are more and more often covered by less people, so the producer may be tracking, and even mixing, but probably not mastering too on a commercial release, variations certainly apply. However you only have to listen to the mix contests on basschat to hear how 10 mixers given exactly the same input can produce wildly different output, and not in the realm of remixes alone, just completely different takes on the source material as it was tracked. If you take that to its logical conclusion in a larger venue the sound person is effectively producing a live mix of the band, unencumbered by the stage volume. Almost certainly they have reference mixes of recorded band output to work towards, but not always. So in this setting the audience experience is very much at most 50/50 band and sound person. If you don't believe me that's fine, but I can assure the person behind the board is absolutely the one calling the shots in terms of sound live. Of course to keep their gig they need to work to produce something the band, their management and tech people approve of, but its still only the sound person who can achieve that live. In contrast a monitor engineer is only as good as how happy the band feel about their personal monitoring on stage in the moment. A far harder nut to crack in a lot of situations (guitarists and singers, jeez!). The smaller the venue the more of the band's own generated volume 'invades' the audience space and the less the sound guy has ultimate influence (for better or worse). In these cases a band can royally ruin any chance of a decent mix regardless of the PA output or any mount of soundy skill. I saw Vic Wooten at the Komedia in Brighton, stood right in front of Vic, could have muted the strings on his bass any time I liked, utterly brilliant gig. The PA stacks were 15 feet to either side of me. His Hartke bass rig was about 8ft behind him - I heard the band mainly from their own monitors, and Vic entirely from his rig. Now in that venue, on that gig, the soundy had very little to do with what I heard. But damn they sounded good! Even when Vic accidentally kicked the kick drum mic fully out of the kick drum To be honest I think the different 'engineering' roles I have mentioned, tracking engineer, mix engineer, mastering engineer do actually warrant the title engineer, live sound FOH guys who know their beans are in the same sort of position as mix engineers for me, but also deal with shabby acoustics every night - certainly more and more bigger rigs use virtually limitless computing power live for fx and plug ins to achieve better and better mixes live (or closer to the record anyway). The amount of understanding required to perform these roles technically well, never mind artistically, is staggering - just look at the endless compression discourse on this site, that stuff is recording fx 101 and most bassists don't have much of a clue about it - they often struggle with the concept of gain staging for crying out loud. Mastering is a darker art still, very much a psychoacoustic role as much as anything else, but the technicalities of saving a mix at mastering stage are not insignificant at all. Where as tracking, although technically not quite as out there as mixing in some cases, requires a degree in psychology to get into a person's head and extract the very best from them in a stressful situation. Producers on the other hand, eat doughnuts....

Are they any good? Then call them by their preferred nom de plum and help them. In my professional experience as a software engineer/architect, the letters after a person's name bear absolutely no relationship to their ability to deliver consistent quality work. Same goes for sound engineering.

If I were recording a jazz trio to quintet I would use no compression, instead use the dynamic range of 24 bits. At mixdown a combination of automation and very gentle 2 buss compression would keep everything glued together properly

I don't need to shout him down, or be a better bass player or educator than him to hold a different opinion. I would think it fairly possible that I might be a better sound engineer than him though... Which is perhaps more relevant.

No one needs a compressor. You have asserted repeatedly that you can't hear the difference live. Ergo they are useless. That's a classic logical fallacy first of all. Secondly it completely disregards those who can hear and or feel the difference, and arguing that compressors on pedalboards are useless is therefore ridiculous.

And there you go. Dynamic control is not the only job of a compressor. Its also a timbre control, and a transient control, and a means of making space in a mix. Even on a pedalboard.

Threshold Ratio Attack Release Makeup gain At the very least, wet/dry mix is extremely useful too, as is a side chain filter. Anything less and you aren't really in control anymore. And at least a 6 LED gain reduction meter.

I'm not sure I am entirely joking....

For what it's worth a compressor is definitely not a good first effect candidate in my opinion. I think you should have a license before you can buy one to prove you have an idea what to do with the bloody thing before you can walk out of the shop with it. Save everyone a load of hassle that would...

Nope, Al wants people to send in live clips where for some reason the comp on the bass player's pedal board is turned on and off so he can listen and say "That's doing nothing". I am pointing out that to most audience members you can apply the same thing to almost all fx in a mix. In fact I would go as far as to say, at gig volume, no effect is more important than playing tightly as a band. A badly played rendition of Sledgehammer with Tony Levin's own octaver, chorus and compressor set up exactly how he had them is going to sound worse than a well played version with none of those effects to every single member of an audience. The audience will get more out of the well played version and consider it better. They wont really be able to say why though. But they will dance to the well played one and look askance at the badly played sonic masterpiece. So Al's point is actually moot, unless Al cares to demonstrate beyond proof that I am wrong in my counter assertion...

Mine isn't, must be all the compression 🤪

Surely there's a real logical fallacy that needs pointing out regarding @Al Krow's request for compression efficacy live? In order to attempt to show that a good compressor set up well is worth less than other FX on bass he needs to provide evidence that those other FX, at unity gain to them not being on, have a greater affect on audience enjoyment. Good luck with that, I've never met a punter who was enjoying a band who could differentiate between what a bass guitar and a keyboard players left hand added to the mix, let alone the importance of fuzz over overdriven over clean or a bit of chorus or an octave or, well any of it. So the assertion that compression is of less use in a pub band setting is rather difficult to prove without a more detailed scientific experiment. The irony being that compression was popularised by the loudness war between Motown and the Beatles in the mid 60's, given Al's preferred era to bang out down the dog and duck...

I don't need to, it is legend on here....

Haven't you got some sound engineering homework to be getting on with?

Can't believe I missed all the fun of this thread 😆 Oh hold on, that's right, it's threads like these rehashing the same old stinky poo from the same entrenched positions that keep me off basschat. So, Al, do everyone and yourself a favour and go do a sound engineering course. Seriously. Learn to mix. Learn how to use compression for real. Until you do that you haven't got a hope in hell of keeping up with the "compression fanboys" (seriously condescending term, like bass playing troglodytes or technophobic under achievers). You rehash your argument over and over again. But it's clearly absurd. Are you saying that compression can't change the sound of a bass in a mix enough to warrant it at a gig? Seriously? Because we've gone over that enough times, people have demonstrated before. You just keep coming back to compression as some peculiar bug bear. I tell you this, compression will make a bigger difference than neck through construction or tone woods in a mix. Not pick up choice though in my experience. Can a punter hear it. No. Can they perhaps better experience the mix because of it? I reckon so. But, and this is a killer, you need to understand how to use it and to get it right you do need to learn effective ways to set it up. So go do that. I do bugger all gigs to not many people. So obviously I know naff all about compression, am some lunatic swivel eyed fanboy and can be effectively dismissed as such regardless of over thirty years being fascinated in sound engineering starting out in studios where your 24 track machine was your got to compressor and saturation plug in. @Happy Jack is about the only BCer who has seen my band in play, ask him if we sounded ok as we happily spent an evening making music for a paltry audience in a tiny pub for the joy of playing music we like, and almost only we like 😆

Not my Becos Twain. By a significant margin it outperforms digital desk compression in my experience.

I think the neighbours may have gone off me - turns out they aren't very keen on Sledgehammer (probably fairly badly) through a Barefaced BigTwin until the windows rattle... Oops

Received today, from Bassdirect, my 50th birthday present, a tad late (I'm 51 next month!) because Bartolini have been stuffed by Covid. Mark has kept me up to date all the way through the process though, and I had a few offers of alternatives through the process. Just really wanted Barts in it. Here are the specs:- Century 5 + Fretless •Spanish Cedar Body, •Flamed Koa top •Finish - Natural satin finish •Three piece Maple neck with contrasting stringers •Fingerboard - Lined Black Diamondwood (resin, pressure impregnated wood) •Graphtech nut •35" Scale - 2 octave •Bartolini 3-band pre amp with volume, pan, treble/bass stack, mid/mid freq select push/pull (250/800hz) •Bartolini JJ Pickup in the JB position •Black ultralight Gotoh tuners •Black Hipshot B style bridge in Aluminium Sounds absolutely fantastic! Feels incredible to play, silky smooth neck. A tiny bit heavier than my Century Standard fretted, but in the same ballpark. Love how it looks though! Colour me chuffed

Old thread, I know, and Mick Kahn has had a couple of mentions already, but this track is so good I thought I'd point it out:- https://youtu.be/Wf_g9bvCO44

The whole point of this video is that panning doesnt solve the problem well. In fact panning stops you being able to hear the problem properly at all in some cases. The issue still exists though. A very well constructed mix done this way won't fall apart when you spread it out IME. But the clarity you get is really cool. Each to their own though!

If this carries on you'll all be ace mixologists!

Damn it, this guy is giving all the good stuff away! I'm not sure whether to be thrilled at the detail and brilliant information, or a little peeved. I've spent years working like this, it is the one true way. If you want your mixes to continue to suck ignore all his advice. Enjoy!

Yeah, its me, so I'm babbling on about compression again (sheesh get a life you tedious old fart). This one is worth it, the absolute best video about how compression can be used to manipulate sounds to get your desired emotional content (thank you Bruce Lee). This needs to be on every single wanna be recordistas play list. Enjoy!!

Guitar amp standby is equivalent to a mute...