51m0n

[quote name='PTB' timestamp='1370862991' post='2106386'] Sounds great, hope to catch you live some time. [/quote] Well we covered half the set (roughly but stil incredible work rate for a doubling in size of the band) - hoping to be gigging next month. Or maybe later this month if we can get it together fast enough (big big if that one)

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1370862701' post='2106377'] f*** Dr John..!!!! keep him/lock him up and wrap him in cotton wool..!! [/quote] I hear you, I hear you! Really laid back guy, hadnt played out in 6 years (he mentioned since his parents died, so I think he maybe took a big step back from things at that point), pretty nervous as a result. His kit wasnt anything to write home about at all, generic Roland workstation thing, didnt have a lead even, was starting to think we were guranteed a right off here. Then he started playing and was just really in tune with the horns and us, poking little bits of tasty piano in and around what was being laid down by everyone else. Big on listening before playing too. Turns out he had flogged all his other kit when he stopped playing, light bars, three or four keyboards, monitor rig, all gone. BUt the next thing he said was "How big a backline do you reckon I'm going to need to keep up with you lot live?", so he is already looking to get the kit he needs to gig with us asap. Later on he pulled up some strings as well, damn I forgot how good strings can sound in a band under horns, very very nice, not what I expected at all, especially given the AC/DC T-shirt

Yup we are now a six piece!

Well that was totally amazing, best rehearsal ive ever had. Keys player is more Dr John than anything else in a very good way, and not over doing it at all so far The horns were just staggering though, really funky, super quick to produce some amazing lines. All really nice people, we got on like a house on fire, and tore the roof clean off the place... Stoked and buzzing, woot!!!!!

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1370685072' post='2104311'] How about this one from the same page as the uncle dad thing? [url="http://cambridge-mt.com/ms-mtk.htm#Arise"]http://cambridge-mt....s-mtk.htm#Arise[/url] [/quote] Well the first one we did was more than a bit reggae inspired to be honest. I was really hoping for some electronica or EDM (there are a whole different set of issues with getting this stuff sounding amazing, lots off differetn techniques to apply - pumping compression is a very good thing in EDM for instance) or something with a big horn section really (funk, ska or big band I dont care which, balancing horns in a mix can be tricky and is not something people get to do every day). But if everyone else wants to do a reggae/dub thing then we can go that way....

No worries. oh yeah I did something a bit differtn with Mr BV too. I took his track, paaned him right, fed that to a track panned left (not hard panned BTW). The left channel version of Mr BV went through a pitch shifter with a 4 semitone down formant shift (NOT a pitch shift at all). Just to thicken him up in a different way from an EQ or whatever. Mr BV left never got to the stereo buss. He was only there to feed the delay line some heavily affected (either phased or flanged) signal to add something 'chewy' - then on the the reverb. Mr BV right also got fed to the delay on the RHS, but without the modulation. I kept this in there, but its incredibly subtle. If I turned it all off you would notice he sounded rather less interesting, and flatter, but you would struggle to say why or how. Thats about it. But I have to enjoy experimenting with a bit of madness on all these mixes or its a bit tried and tested, and where is the fun in that!

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1370605010' post='2103303'] As I remember, they were either spread both in one direction (although not hard one way or the other) or spread opposite directions, still not hard though. [/quote] Yeah the spreading them either side is a big error on anything that is normally heard as a point source in a band IME. It really really doesnt help get a wide sound stage, quite the opposite in fact you end up with a virtually mono soundstage with each speaker being slightly differently eq'ed in effect. Not good

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1370603859' post='2103272'] I did spread everything left and right, but maybe they were all a little too close together? (Mix K BTW). K-metering wasn't right at all I don't have any good monitoring equipment either, just some treble heavy/bass lacking headphones. [/quote] I meant put AC1 L hard left and AC1 R hard right, and carry on through the mix, or did you go AC1L and AC1R are pretty much a point source I will put them both over there on the left mixed to taste in terms of timbre.

OK, so here is my mix notes from as they came in, plus a round up of what the heck I did to make mine sound like it did. I hope it helps, if its abrupt in places I apologise, I like towrite what I hear as i hear it, and it may seem a tad harsh, sorry, but I can only type so fast! [b]Mix A[/b] That harsh reedy quality to the 'twang' instruments is there in abundance, the banjo sounds rather 'boxy' too, the reverb on the vocal is a bit too obvious, and the vocal is rather quiet. Nicely mixed in with the bv though. [b]Mix B[/b] Bass sounds nice, but its very very loud in the mix, BV is rather loud too I think. You struggled with the drums, they arent in a space at all, very very dry indeed, not much evidence of the OH and room mics, which is a shame. Not so twangy and harsh as A though. [b]Mix C[/b] This is mine, and I still think its my favourite mix here by a fair way. The band is in a space together (very careful reverb selection, and subtle delay set up, as usual, I love 'spaces' in recordings), the vocal is absolutely the main focus, but I've really worked on pulling all the hooks out as well. The bass is not over powering anything. More importantly the extreme twang has been tamed, and the harsh reedy nature in a lot of the mixes here isnt evident, thats careful eqing. I really think the fact that this was a Telefunken promo, which meant that the same set of LDC and SDC mics were used on everything really damaged the tracking on this one. Those SDCs are clearly super bright, and they really dont gel with the sources for me, stack a lot of them up in a mix and you get an intolerable amount of extreme high end that sounds really fizzy and nasty to my ears. Not good, and not nice. SOme ribbon mics on some of those harshest sources (looking at the fiddle and maybe mandolin) would have been good, or even some nice dynamics (RE20, or Senn 421s) would have probably tamed the sources very nicely. I liked the hooks, and I liked the acoustic guitars, but for me you couldnt have both all the time, because if you do then there are no dynamic highs and lows, it just chugs all the way through at the same dynamic level. At the same time the banjo is rgeat, but its dynamically static, for all that its a reasonably busy line, and that meant the song was dynamically static whenever it was playing. So I took out the acoustic guitars for a verse or chorus, cant remember exactly, it sounded better for it to me though. I really liked the banjo, but its very busy, and it masks a lot of the subtleties in the hooks played by the fiddle, mandolin, dobro and AC3, and we must remember, its all about the hooks! EQing was interesting, the bass is a bit 'one notey', by which I mean Mr Bass may be playing a bunch of notes, but there is a resonant frequency coming through on all of them really quite heavily, whether its in the room or the bass, which masks what he is doing in the mix. Hard to hear this unless you know what you are listening for I'm afraid. I spent a good while trying to find this, and ended up just hacking a chunk out somewhere near 80 Hz to get rid of it and actually start hearing the bass noters moving around about. Surgical? Kinda. Brutal? Very. The toms are pretty nasty too, I ended up gating them to get rid of alot of the ringing, but that actually didn't come out that well I think, there is a transient spike on acouple of tom hits that I never got around to sorting out, its buggiong me now! The snare was 'interesting' for me. Its been processed to hell and back (La3a compressor according to the trackiong notes - and not set to flatter either IMO). I chose to embrace the splat rather than trying to force a clear transient out of it, its a nasty snare but we must remember that sometimes sh*tty is pretty. I knew it wasnt going to win any awards (or admirers) but I still kind of like it. Believe me I tamed it right back, it was set to "Phil Collins" at one point The vocal was a fantastic performance, and pretty nicely captured, it does get a bit sibilant and splatty though, so I de-essed it, and then used some tuned saturation to bring it right forward, rather than an EQ, it didnt need to be brighter, it just needed to sound more forward. Bootsy's Variety of Sound VSTs are superb for this kind of thing, highly recommended! With regard to the L and R mics on everything, I treated them all as mono, mixed the two different sources to get the best timbre from them I could, then EQ'ed the result where necessary to get a sound that sat in the mix right. Lots and lots of refinement went on with the EQing of the twanggy stuff. I think a lot of people have been caught out by everything being twangy, you simply have to decide what is going to go where in the frequency spectrum, and then carve gobs of stuf fout to make space for everything. This is really hard, I found the banjo sounded best without all its top end, more middly, but a lot of the other mixes have everything fighting each other in the top end, and then nothing wins IMO. In order to ride levels quickly and simply through the track I had two different compressors on the master buss, which is unusual fo rme, Bootsy's Density MkII which was in M</S mode so I could lift the side a bit and get more widht, and Tokyo Dawn Records' new Feedback compressor which is sublime at very transparent levelling between sections. Love that compressor, you would not know it was there until I turned it off, awesome! Annoyingly catchy song though, I havent posted this before because I spent days with it going around in my head, and was fearing for my sanity there for a while [b]Mix D[/b] Somehow this feels a bit conjested for me, maybe some wider stereo, The vocal blend is good though. There is nothing stand out nasty in this one at all, its a bit bright, and everything seems to be fighting up top, but the drums sound great, especially the snare. The cymbals may be a tad harsh if I'm super critical. I liked this. [b]Mix E[/b] Why is the vocalist in a little tiny box? Very odd reverb choice to my ear. Its pretty dark this, which is better than twangy I must say Dont like the snare at all, its kind of lost in tubland looking for Poh... The twang is in full effect hear, that reedy quality is back on everything a bit. Other than the snare it doesnt sound over processed though, would have liked more bv level (just a tad), his is a great vocal too. [b]Mix F[/b] Quite middy on the fiddle, and banjo, good effort to seperate the twang contenders IMO, but with the clickiest rockiest kick so far, kind of incongrous that one . Fiddle does get a bit intrusive for me, and its dead center which doesnt help IMO. Its fighting the vocals, which is not a great choice I think. The snare suffers like mine did, embrace the splat sir, nice (in a very nasty way) [b]Mix G[/b] Wiiiiiidddddeeeee Oh nice forward vocal, good job! Bit of compression release around that kick though, its breathing a bit this. The snare has some bight though, although its a little thin? Mr BV is blended in beautifully too I think. This one has gone a long way to deal with the build up in that reedy quality, but its there still, I can hear a lot of the twang gang individually though, its not quite 'hurting' which is nice! Good mix this one, I like it, should do well. But there has been no effort to improve the sense of dynamics, its all just throwh in there throughout rather. [b]Mix H[/b] This has that high frequency build up I keep banging in about in spades, its all just a tad grating. The vocal is in the right spot though, really forawrd. The drums are thoroughly over egged I think, that snare and the toms, all with an almost gated reverb, I know I stepped this way, but its getting in the way of everything else on this. It all sounds a little on top of each other, more careful eqing to seperate the instruments is really needed. Are you hitting some heavyish mix buss compression, or is it just the drum buss? Something is pumping like a bellows in there I think. Again I didnt find that pleasant to listen to, too aggressive on the drums, and too much top end build up. Sorry... [b]Mix I[/b] This isnt helped by coming after G, its sounding rather middly, and rather mono, I like wide sound stages and this isnt one. Over compressed drums, by gum splattastic snare that, very very bold, sir, brave even. I didnt dare go that hard at it in the end and woosed out a lot in comparison to this A lot of top end fighting going on here too. Its not a very pleasant listen this, its very aggressive indeed, and for me the song isnt at all aggressive! [b]Mix J[/b] AC guitars are really nice and smooth. Is that a long early reflection or a slapback delay on the lead vocal? Sounds a little odd in the context of a country song to me, slap back is great on rock and roll though. Like the BV a lot, he's quite ethereal on this one, nie job. Drums sound about as natural as they can on this track, nice one, I would have added some more reverb on the snare though The hooks are very very quiet though, these are the earworms, the bits people hum, you cant bury them all all the time behind the strummy rhythm guitars, it defeats the object I think. [b]Mix K[/b] Err I dont think you got the K metering right, thats mega quiet. Never mind! The vocal is awfully dull, and very quiet, the bass is massive, its all balanced very strangely. I think your monitoring is probably a ittle out of whack? Again its very mono too, did you spread everythin hard L and R and then raise all the faders? Everything is on top of everything else, there is no soundstage at all, apart from Mr BV being left a little. [b]Mix L[/b] Thats another odd reverb choice, small hall or chamer, and buckets of it. Reverb is a weird thing, if you can hear it (on a lead vocal) then its too much. If you cant hear it until you turn it off and then realise what you are missing, then you are about right IME. A good reverb is hard to hear until its gone I think. Then you wonder how you lived without it. Also the BV should be a small step behind the lead, to do this a little more reverb, and a little less top end matched to a lightly lower level will do this fiune, but if your lead vocal is swamped in reverb, then there is no behind him to place the BV. Good drums though, if a little loud perhaps? Well done all of you though, some really good efforts, and a lot of people are getting not a million m,iles away from each other. In all honesty though, I cant understand for a moment why E got that many votes. Sorry Moonbass, but I really didnt like yours, but clearly I know absolutely pants all about it

Heh, yeah the kit thing will be interesting, I know he's bringing a Roland of some sort with him to the rehearsal, but I know he's been out of the loop for a while so I'm not massively worried - after all I was out of the gigging scene for 5+ years, and my kit list went down to a bass and not much else, however now I have some of the nicest gear available (heh IMO ). But very very good points, what would he be looking to get (assuming he isnt running a really great keyboard and amp) is definitely one of the questions I might ask 'by the by' as it were. Personally I think stereo backline is pretty daft for live, anything that isnt a fat pad sound wants to be a point source in a live band mix, most of the funky sounds in my head arent fat pad sounds at all, but clavis, organs, analogue synths etc (OK so hammond gets 'stereoised' in a lot of recordings, but live IME a leslie is definitely a point source, and a glorious one at that). Most important to me is does he have 'it' for a funk band, whereby he can leave space and just add to the groove without having a really heavy left hand getting in the way. Tricky, I've only met two or three keys players who could really do that in 20 years, and all the rest have been various levels of tragically not right for funk As for getting sounds, if he plays a Roland he's doomed, programming those things is a total nightmare

Well my band has been a really fantastic project up until now, great chaps, who I really get on well with, playing music we all absolutely love: funk, instrumental, very often highly improvised with large extended sections rather than typical song structures - totally self indulgent, and to hell with punters who don't dig it. For the last 6 months we've been trying to find some more like minded people, there is only so much that we can do as a three piece (bass, drums, guitar) and we've drawn a complete blank for the entire time. Not that this has really worried us, we arent working to any kind of timescale since we are all old farts who are in it for the love of the funk and nothing more. Now all of a sudden I have found a keyboard player who is interested in seeing if we gel together, he's older even than us, and as far as I can tell has had a lot of experience, although none of it really in funk, which is a bit of a worry, I'd rather not have a Wakeman-esque be-cloaked chap on keys if I'm honest, he can be as Bernie Stevie Worrel Wonder as he likes though... As if that weren't enough it turns out a chap at work has played various horns for years (tuba and bone mainly) and works a lot with a lady trumpet player (she tends to sort out the dots, he can read anything, she has magic ears for horn lines apparently) and they have both expressed an interest. I am not expecting a miniature Tower of Power horn section, but I am hoping for something pretty good as it goes, and being just two horns they dont need to be quite as tight as a larger section IME. So this Sunday all three are turning up to see if we can make a vaguely cohesive noise and still retain the grooviness and laughter we have been enjoying to date. They've had access to our last recorded gig, and seem keen. Can anyone offer any suggestions or advice on how to deal with a band literally doubling in size over night, (its a hell of a shake up in the social dynamic!) or anything to watch for with any of the new chaps. I'm a bit concerned that if the keys player doesnt really fit he may well put off the horns (or vice versa). As for the 'core' members, we are happy to have these people join of they bring the funk and want to help out, but by the same merit we arent concerned if they either dont want to join or can't be regular 'full time' band members ( with some obvious caveats around preparation and doing their homework).

That looks totally epic!

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1370086554' post='2096314'] Thanks again Mike! Very kind of you. Looking forward to hearing your feedback Paul [/quote] Huge +1 from me too Thanks for taking the time out to give your thoughts on the mixes!

[size=5]Voting is finished we have a tie between Moonbass and ironside1966 - well done the pair of you!![/size]

Ok the voting ends now.... We have the following results:-[list=1] [*]Mix A (2 votes [7.69%]) [*]Mix B (0 votes [0.00%]) [*]Mix C (5 votes [19.23%]) [*]Mix D (0 votes [0.00%]) [*]Mix E (6 votes [23.08%]) [*]Mix F (1 votes [3.85%]) [*]Mix G (6 votes [23.08%]) [*]Mix H (0 votes [0.00%]) [*]Mix I (5 votes [19.23%]) [*]Mix J (1 votes [3.85%]) [*]Mix K (0 votes [0.00%]) [*]Mix L (0 votes [0.00%]) [/list] ANd the mixes were by the following people:- Mix A.wav - Dad3353 Mix B.wav - Lurksalot Mix C.wav - 51m0n Mix D.wav - cheddatom Mix E.wav - Moonbass Mix F.wav - Twigman Mix G.wav - ironside1966 Mix H.wav - Ziphoblat Mix I.wav - Skol Mix J.wav - VasDim Mix K.wav - MiltyG565 Mix L.wav - xgsjx Thank you all for your time and effort, bot entering and voting, and we have a tie for the first time between Moonbass and ironside1966, well done gents! Skol and I are off to lick our wounds and sulk in the corner

Mrs 51 just voted for Kit too....

2 days to go chaps... Anymore for anymore?

Groovy!

It would be rude not to

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369687263' post='2091703'] Thanks for that Si, very helpful stuff. My problem has always been that I come at everything like the punk guitar player I started out as back in the late '80s, when we all had crappy old Sound City valve amps (that are now worth a great deal more than we thought) and the only way to get a useable guitar sound out of them was to dime all the controls. They never died. I still do this to my little 15w Vox for guitars, it is also perfectly happy. Never done it to a bass amp (not quite true, I once had a big old sound city valve head, with the same problem, but they were very much [b]passive controls [/b]I believe, and I fried it eventually with a guitar, more due to sustained years of abuse than any single incident). Different beasties perhaps? Or maybe I was just lucky back then. [/quote] Passive tone controls are one part of this, they cant ever supply more output than they get in input, very different from a modern eq section that is designed (very often to) to be able to provide up to 16dB of boost in several sections that will overlap of pushed hard. Tube amps are funny too, in that as you saturate a tube it becomes a compressor leveling out peaks, solid state amps dont behave like that in quite the same way and will tend to try and push out what comes in, but louder, not attenutating the peaks and transients anywhere near as much as tube gear. Then there is the fact you were running guitar not bass through these amps, thats a signal that requires less energy to derive the same percieved output volume as bass, because of the frequencies involved. Less energy means less chance of disaster, less heat build up blah blah blah. Loads of reasons why these amps may survive this treatment, the thing is its not an apples with apples comparision. My rig doesnt behave like that, I wouldnt be happy with someone trying any of that abuse with my rig (unless they put absolutely top dollar in my pocket first as insurance in case they broke something treating it like that). Mine is still a perfectly well designed rig though, its just capable of more, and with great power comes great responsibility (groan)

Only a couple of days left for voting, please have a listen. the more votes the better......

RME are superb You will notice that it works better tHan it's competition. Better drivers and USB chips mean better performance. Cleaner preamps mean less noise too. My UCX has been perfect from day one.

Nice one Skol

The guitarist in my band constantly does himself doen for not being that bothered by lead stuff and it not being his strong suit as a result. His hero is Nile, he is the best guitarist I or the drummer have ever played with....

He is awesome....