51m0n

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369687263' post='2091703'] Thanks for that Si, very helpful stuff. My problem has always been that I come at everything like the punk guitar player I started out as back in the late '80s, when we all had crappy old Sound City valve amps (that are now worth a great deal more than we thought) and the only way to get a useable guitar sound out of them was to dime all the controls. They never died. I still do this to my little 15w Vox for guitars, it is also perfectly happy. Never done it to a bass amp (not quite true, I once had a big old sound city valve head, with the same problem, but they were very much [b]passive controls [/b]I believe, and I fried it eventually with a guitar, more due to sustained years of abuse than any single incident). Different beasties perhaps? Or maybe I was just lucky back then. [/quote] Passive tone controls are one part of this, they cant ever supply more output than they get in input, very different from a modern eq section that is designed (very often to) to be able to provide up to 16dB of boost in several sections that will overlap of pushed hard. Tube amps are funny too, in that as you saturate a tube it becomes a compressor leveling out peaks, solid state amps dont behave like that in quite the same way and will tend to try and push out what comes in, but louder, not attenutating the peaks and transients anywhere near as much as tube gear. Then there is the fact you were running guitar not bass through these amps, thats a signal that requires less energy to derive the same percieved output volume as bass, because of the frequencies involved. Less energy means less chance of disaster, less heat build up blah blah blah. Loads of reasons why these amps may survive this treatment, the thing is its not an apples with apples comparision. My rig doesnt behave like that, I wouldnt be happy with someone trying any of that abuse with my rig (unless they put absolutely top dollar in my pocket first as insurance in case they broke something treating it like that). Mine is still a perfectly well designed rig though, its just capable of more, and with great power comes great responsibility (groan)

Only a couple of days left for voting, please have a listen. the more votes the better......

RME are superb You will notice that it works better tHan it's competition. Better drivers and USB chips mean better performance. Cleaner preamps mean less noise too. My UCX has been perfect from day one.

Nice one Skol

The guitarist in my band constantly does himself doen for not being that bothered by lead stuff and it not being his strong suit as a result. His hero is Nile, he is the best guitarist I or the drummer have ever played with....

He is awesome....

Also makie sure you put your hand palm down over the end io fthe mic you speak into (the ball on an SM58) This effectively changes the polar respons of the mic, making it more omni directional and thus tending to bring on feedback if its close, better to do it in the souncheck than when you stick your gob right on the mic to sing and release the squeally noise fairies into the night.

Very loudly:- She Sells Sea Shells On The Sea Shore, Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Picled Peppers, She Sells Sea Shells On The Sea Shore, Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Picled Peppers, She Sells Sea Shells On The Sea Shore, Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Picled Peppers, She Sells Sea Shells On The Sea Shore, Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Picled Peppers... All the 'plosives and sibilence you could ever need

I understand that, not a problem. But its nothing to do with the design of the amp at all, they are designed correctly, but can be misued, like a rifle. The amp is designed specifically to allow lots of different levels to hit the front end and be attenuated or amplified to a sensible volume fo rthe amp to deal with internally. Thats the gain control. Then this signal passes through eq and who knows what, and dependant on the nature of the signal going in the front, huge boosts in the eq can also cause the power amp stage to clip unexpectedly. A lot of amps have a limiter built in to help stop this, but its not nice, and no analogue limiter in an amp is going to contain everything that could be going on (they cant look ahead in real time for one thing). Then there is abuse of the output seciton, especially by the chap who has eq'ed oodles of sub in to get 'his sound' that subsequently cant be heard at anything less than terraforming volumes. So he turns the master up to those levels and puts loads more stress into the cab, and its crossover. Amps are designed to be useful for a wide array of people and kit. They can equally be misused by some of those people and this will be detrimental to the life expectancy of the rig. As far as I am aware my rig wasnt bought by a cretin , I am determined that it wont be used by one ever either, not while I own it. There are probably several people on this forum that would argue that it is in fact clearly owned by a cretin already

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1369405282' post='2088873'] Honest question, if turning everything up full on an amp will kill it, surely that's really rubbish design? Why have parameters you can't use? [/quote] You dont understand gain staging really do you? The input gain control on my amp dimed is pumping a huge amount more (many many many dB in fact) into the front of the EQ section than if it is set up properly. You are naively assuming that the output from all basses and fx pedals are the same. If I set up my fx to maxmimum output levels (and I have a couple of filters that can produce very steep Qs with huge peaks at the frequncies they are sweeping through, say +12dB at least each, add that to +16dB of bass at 40Hz shelf, added to another +16dB anywhere from about 70Hz through 500Hz (Lo Mid) then you are looking at in places maybe another 44dB of aqmplitude hitting the front end. So with that kind of misuse and really stupid settings of the initial input gain I would expect issues to arise, either the amp will call it a day and shutdown due to overheating trying to push that much low end (if you are lucky), or a component in the cab or amp may fail or who knows. Yes my amp has a limiter, but its not supposed to be run like that, and it will not do it any good. I reckon if you let me I can demonstrate this, let me plu g my bass and fx into your rig and have a play with the controls, then run it dimed for half an hour. Are you willing to bet I wont stress your rig anywhere in a way that would make you feel at the very least uncomfortable? ANd yes I have seen uneducated bassists do all of those sorts of things to their own and other peoples riogs because they didnt understand how it should be done, or the soudn of overloaded front ends and crashing limiters was 'their sound'. Not with my rig it isnt!

If I dont know someone (incredibly) well, they dont go near my kit. If they try they will be unplugged, mid song. I dont consider that being an arse, I consider not bringing the tools you need to do the job you want to do being an artse. Seen and experienced to much kit abuse, heard too many tales, and spent far too much of my hard earned cash to risk it. These pages are full of lovely people who play bass, and yet time and again there are people on here who clearly dotn know anything anout proper gainstaging or eq, why would I expect someone in a band I've never met to know any more, and then let them loose on my kit to find out how to break it? If someone doesnt like it, go get your own kit. If I turn up to a gig with my rig then I get to play through it, I consequently always take my rig. If I turn up to a gig without the kit to play then that means I'm intending to be in the audience. As for using other peoples kit, why would I do that? It takes five minutes to change over a bass rig, I mean come on!

Dont do that - please. To put it into perspective its louder than TPower's Self Evident Truth, and thats not as ambient, was released in the 90's and was always "loud enough". If you squash it much more you'll lose as much as you gain in all probability - depending on the skill of the engineer, the room he is in and his kit. All of which would need to be top notch not to do noticeable damage in my opinion.

Yes. Nice stuff too. Why would you think it isnt?

Do they have to look so poo though

Cheers for voting Nigel, would love to know which one you voted for though (PM me!) Hope stuff gets better asap!

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1369293191' post='2087304'] Arguably! There's a number of ways of producing bass extension, and even bass response - all of them are a compromise of some sort. IIRC, a fully executed Transmission Line needs to have a line of at least 1/4length of the lowest wavelength desired. So if you want 17Hz you'll need a TL of 5m, which of course is quite difficult to get into a cabinet that will fit in your living room. Clever engineering can get round this to an extent, but then it also can in both ported, sealed box and isobaric designs. My Dittons rely on a 12" bass unit, large volume and a 12" passive radiator to get to a -6dB figure of 18Hz. My Leema Xaviers use a very long throw 6.5" driver and a low bass crossover point plus large volume to get 28Hz at -3dB. My dream speaker (Eggleston Ivy) uses 6 12" drivers in an isobaric (i.e. pressure driven) configuration to get 13Hz at -4dB. PMCs BB5, an excellent speaker and none more black, uses a transmission line to get a "usable frequency" of 17Hz... [/quote] All true. I like my little(ish) TLs though, they sound goooood. Same with anything I suppose, the best executed of any solution to the problem will sound fantastic, and the reason they are the best is because they work around the design issues in the best way. And the PMC XBD are my wet dream speaker if I'm honest, love them, so much that I'm going to have to go and have a little sit down now until my legs stop trembling (not that I could ever afford them or get them in the house, or past the good lady, but thats irrelevant)

Come on chaps, you can do it, you dont need to listen to all of every track to decide if its good, I promise!

Closing date is 31st May for the voting. Doesnt mean we cant look for more stems and get on with another mix in the meantime. Anybody want to offer somehting to get it mixed??

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1369157431' post='2085622'] I didn't understand about 95% of this comment... [/quote] Big floorstanding transmission line (as opposed to ported) speakers. Good transmission lines go deeper with less bumps in the low end frequency response. Mine are reasonable examples. Because I love to hear bass cleanly. And because I am worth it :-D

Heh, welcome to the world of 'mix translation'

Humongous floor standing transmission lines Because I'm worth it

Am very partital to the Doors, love his keys work, totally recognisable in an instant. classy as hell... RIP, and thanks Ray

Oh I know what you're saying Dad3353, its good fun, and hopefully a great learning tool. It certainy isnt a competition ( you cant have competition in art etc etc ), but I want to get mixes together that people always want to hear more than anyone elses, because they 'hit the spot' every time, for every one. No I know thats not possible and from a technical and experience standpoint I've mixed more than most on this site (certainly not more than everyone though, the real pros arent soing this competition, they are too busy earning a living mixing), but that doesnt mean I dont want to get more of an impression from all the mixes I do, and so understanding why certain things seem popular where others are less so, when I currently dont is important, and sometimes hard. I can understand exactly why Mix I is where its at - I can explain what it is doing to myself (technically and empotionally), and why that appeals in a lot of listening environments, and I can also judge it critically and make an argument both pro and con for the stylistic choices that were made when it was mixed (it could be mine, or it may not be, you will have to wait for the answer), but not Mix E, I really have no idea why its where it is in the poll. And to get better myself, I need to understand exactly that so that I know when to step that far away from what I consider a great sounding mix to make something great precisely because it isnt a great sounding mix (if you see what I mean). I'm still happy that to my ears my mix is still the 'right one' and the rest are just pale imitations though

I would also think that judging purely on cans is really hard, nto for a lot of the, "nope thats not right" standout mixes, but when it comes to deciding between a couple that standout as rather good, mixes on headphones dont feel anything like mixes in a room, for one thing the room stamps its own signature on the mix, for another all the ambience levels will seem a little too high on a headphone mix if they are to work in a room IME, plu the panning that works right in a room will be too extreme on cans. Now the number of people voting like they are would lead me to believe there is a lot of headphone listening and not a lot of listening on speakjers. Which I can understand actually, but it is strange that that may well be what is leading the voting the way it is going...

Some lovely systems being used. How many of you have actually downloaded your favourite 2 or 3 mixes and compared the wavs - the difference between the wavs and the soundcloud stream is scarily noticeable to me, the soundlcoud stream sucks big time comapred to the wavs on every thing I've used to compare the two. So much that I'm thinking it may make more sense next time to upload this to a dropbox account, to encourage people to download them.