51m0n

Never had a problem with my ae410 being heard on stage or off.... Yes dispersion is not ideal, hoever in the venues where I'm playing without PA (ie its all backline) the acoustics of the place more than mess with any chance of perfect dispersion anyway. And if I am playing with a super duper PA then I only need it as my monitor (lovely). However I do always get it up off the floor, I dont see any benefit with it shooting off past my knees, then again I dont see how putting a 212 down there is a good idea either.... So Get yourself a nice strong hop-up like this (good for 150Kg apparently, and about £50):- Drape a nice bit of dark cloth over it, put your "single cab solution" of choice on top and all your bags and guff under it behind the cloth and you are good to go. I hear every note and nuance when I play, my drummer claims he's never heard the bass better (previous bands the bassist had a single 15 apparently - lost it was, and nothing to do with dispersion), and the guiatrist says he can hear it perfectly too. Weird that, the maths and theory are undeniable, but in practice I havent really heard it yet...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1364900155' post='2032269'] [size=5][sup]Low mids can kill your sound as much as save it... in that you might have a sound coming through everyones else, but what sort of sound..?[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]Should you accept a punch through the hole approach... and the loss of any real interesting bass definition, potentially. or should you set the whole band up[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]so you can get your sound to work?[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]To my ears Markbass is punchy and efficient, but too many players use the mid punch approach and the bass is just plain dull and uninspiring.[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]I don't blame Markbass so much as the people using it. and the way they choke off all character.[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]I really don't get why you want to accept something that works in a mix...but doesn't if solo'd.. [/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]A wall of sound and volumes wars are never a good mix.[/sup][/size] [/quote] Err you can try and set the whole bands sound up around yours, and to some degree you certainly should. But that wont necessarily make the best mix, or indeed make the bass easy to hear on stage, or in the audience. Mids are not mud, unless there is too much mid, the OPs setting would more than hint that he had removed, not only all the mid, but all the top as well, just leaving sludge: thats what those two filters set like that will do, every time, to any bass sound, because thats how they work. Mixing is not about shaping everything around one thing, rather it is shaping everything around everything else, if you can pick and choose the right parts of each sound and have the tools to do it no one will hear the missing bits, and this all comes down to human perception of sound. We are very very bad at working out what is cut, compared to how well we can tell if something is boosted (too much boost too steep sounds very unnatural, whereas a steep cut we dont ven notice as missing). Add to this the fact that Fletcher Munsen curves dictate absolutely that we hear pitch and other information better in the mid range at all volumes and you can see why having a hole in the mids (where mr guitar is making his smiley eq cut) for the bass to have a little bit of room (and a boost to match) to be heard, will make the entire bass sound more punchy, easier to hear and allow you to meld better with the guitar and indeed entire band sound without disappearing. This isnt some new idea, ever since George Massenburg popularised the parametric EQ in the 70s every mix you have heard live or on record has had chunks cut out of one instrument to make another easier to hear (he used his parametric originally in the PA he built for Earth Wind and Fire tours where there was a tonne of competing instruments at various frequencies). It is 'the right way to do it' and done right the cuts do not in some way destroy the timbre of any one instrument, but instead allow it to be heard. The brain does a really good job of filling in those gaps where there are cuts and another instrument takes the lead in that area of the spectrum. This is before anyone even mentions acoustics and how variable they can be and how much they can damage the sound, and are often particularly tricky in upper mids, and deep bass. The former because as a venue fills the upper mids are effectively soaked up by the audience (bags of meat are great absorption) and the latter because of structural shapes of venues and the difficulties of providing reasonable bass trapping to control reflections in the bass and all that energy crashing around the room in the sub 120Hz area. The nature of the buildings we tend to play in means there are often real issues in the control of these areas which will turn to mud any mix with a big dollop of really low bass. I can't remember the last time I heard a band pull off proper sub bass from an instrument live without it actually damaging the mix (I include all efforts to make kick drums sound like cannons) in a building (outdoors can be different). It is ridiculously difficult to control in an untreated building at high volume.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1364899551' post='2032259'] Fixed it for ya. [/quote] Doh, ta!

Yup VLE and VPF off for me too. I have more mid control with my sa450 than on an LMII (which is precisely why I bought it), I boost a little low end (which is a stupidly low 40Hz on MB amps), and add a little very low mid (about 120Hz I think), cut a little mid top (about 1KHz I think), and leave the highs where they are. Thats into a Bergantino ae410 (Tweeter on at the normal halfway point) which is a cab that punches like a boxer on PCP and is forward in the upper mids. I get a huge tone that way, loads of bite and growl and clarity, and just enough low end to fill a mix out in the room. I transition from slapping and fingerstyle all the way through gigs, all the time, I have no time or wish to be mucking around with settings or pedals whilst doing this, its far more about what feels right at the time. I use a heavy neck pickup bias on the Roscoe, its a quite P bass like sound, but at the same time clearly isnt a P. Hard to describe, but its a good big sound anyway, and with these settings whatever technique I'm using it sounds 'right', to me anyway, and the rest of the band love it too. It always sounds like bass, and could certainly be described as an old school kind of tone rather than anything remotely hifi. I should add that I run a Focusrite Compounder which allows me to add some low end in to the signal around the compressor so that it isnt clamping down too hard just on the low energy. So that gives a bit more oomph too, and also helps to just keep the fx I use all sounding the same level wise. I dotn thik its really necessary to run a compressor, but I like what it does to my tone... The VPF is a cut in the mids, the more you turn it up the more dB it pulls out. Anything above 9 O'clock and you will disappear from the mix completely. Leave it off in a band mix, it will work better that way. The VPF is a low pass filter and the more you turn it up the more you roll the frequency down, so off its set at 20KHz, and all the way on its not letting much of anything out above 250Hz. It was designed to make up for the lack of a tweeter control on early MB combos. Again just try leaving it off, its a very unusual control with a very specific intended usage, and I personally think the hi and upper mid controls will give you what you want in a way you would expect better than this particular filter does. Just my opinion, but I've gigged this amp for 4 or 5 years to get that opinion....

I look like a fat bloke in a white T-shirt who needs dancing lesson, if not gurning lessons (neanderthal would be unnecessarily complimentary re the odd shapes I squeeze my visage into whilst playing), I move like a well overweight ostrich, my head bobs back and forward like a chicken after seed, and I do this weird little kick of my right foot every now and then at random. Dont really care though, I'm giving it my best to bring the funk, I'm not stationary by any means, and its highly entertaining if you are in need of comical light relief (I've seen video evidence, its hysterical!)....

I'd never call my sa450 sterile at all, how odd.....

I noticed that about B too, which I thought was a rather odd omission, I really liked the singers voice, accent, and phrasing, wouldnt want to leave out a single bit, I wonder if it was just a simple mistake on the render rather than a definite decision to prune it out? Whoevers mix it is, don't answer that yet!

I think so. I found that if you let it play through, and opened another browser tab, then in Firefox at least the currently playing mix title is displayed in the soundcloud tab. Which meant should listen at work and 'mark up' a track as good really easily.

Weird double post. Sorry!

Oh and is anyone struggling to recognise their own mix?

I would just like to say before any voting goes on, I really really liked this song, loads of changes, light and dark and dynamics etc (awesome voice on your snger by the way CT!) and would have loved to have more spare time to spend on it this month. Quite upset that I didnt, I normally wouldnt let a mix at this point in my 'process' see the light of day (before any automation at all on mine - ye gads!), but a deadline is just that, and I did feel I was starting to take the mick, since everyone else (even Skol ffs!) had got their mixes in.... Really liked working with the drums in the end too, embrace the spilllage and enjoy a 'real' space. I think the OH were probably too far off the kit for best results, but thats picking hairs it was all quite workable in the end (and yes the hihat mic stayed in on mine!) I've listened to them all a couple of times, and by gum theres some stiff competition in there as it goes!

I am in no hurry Lets say poll closes on Wednesday... We can look for new stems concurrently.

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1364478351' post='2027014'] Well done Si! Sterling work in getting these all downloaded and re-uploaded, etc. I'd advise putting a big, fat link to the SoundCloud page in the OP of this thread. Took me a while to find the link in other posts. But then I am a bit thick [/quote] The link is there in the OP, I may make it more big and fat - like me

The poll and link to all the mixes can be found here:- http://basschat.co.uk/topic/202023-march-mix-competition-its-voting-time-again/#entry2006875 Thank you very much for your time on this, and thanks to Cheddatom and his band CreepJoint for this months song! Note, you are voting for the mix, not the level, some of these mixes are quieter than others, please do turn up your headphones/amp/speakers to compensate so you can enjoy all the mixes equally Thank you people of Basschat!!!

Right all the mixes are in (mine was last, but I havent listen to any of them I promise. Link here to all your efforts:- https://soundcloud.com/bc-mix-competitions/sets/bc-march-mix-competition

Yep I'm looking at something like an Audient ASP008 (but cheaper ha!) to snuggle up with my RME UCX, giving 10 mic inputs total, add an RME QuadMic and I'm up to 14 mic pres if I needed them (to be honest I doubt I ever would, and I may well look to getting some more colour preamps instead of more RME, for all that tehy are superb ). The Fireface 800 is a great bit of kit, not as good as the UFX (for twice the money, but it does a lot more, with better ADA and mic pres etc etc and lower latency IIRC). A lot of people have built studios around them, but again for many inputs you are looking to add channels via ADAT, same as my UCX.

Apogee Duet RME Babyface The Apogee is Mac only, the RME either Mac or PC. Both should do the job perfectly Chris, and should hit your budget.

Yes. I've tracked drums with my Zoom H4n (the device itself as the OH and a kick and snare mic with it). This is the result:- https://soundcloud.com/lines-horizontal/the-individuils No distortion to worry about, recorded at 48KHz 24bit and allowing plenty of headroom for the preamps (peaking at -12dB at least) Some people have struggled with the H1 and very very loud bands, but the H4n is excellent in this regard. Here is a track recorded jsut in the room with the H4n, there has been some post processing, but nothing much (bit of eq and lifting the level).... [url="https://soundcloud.com/51m0n-1/track-7/s-T7TIC"]https://soundcloud.c...track-7/s-T7TIC[/url]

Yup, I have an H4n and its superb. One warning, rip those files off there and name them carefully straight away, and prune out the rubbish immediately. I have literally got gigabytes of recordings of rehearsals that I can dip into (and thats mp3s that are edited to individual songs/takes/ideas, if I hadnt edited as I went it would be terabytes or worse), it gets overwhelming very quickly!

Crikey, top time had by all, played 4 tracks, set was just under an hour long. Like I said self indulgent funk odyssey Punters got into it though, lots of boogeying and compliments on the sound, tightness (obviously no one noticed my collection of momentous structural gaffs, must have hidden them fairly well!) and general barefaced front of the whole thing. The recording came out pretty well too, its only 4 track, but that would appear to suffice for a three piece funk band really....

Tonight 8.00pm sharp, Mister Super Juice, my incredibly self indulgent 3 piece instrumental funk band are playing The Ouch Bar on Preston Street Brighton. Look forward to seeing anyone from here - come and say hello, its our first gig, so be nice

I would think we will be wrapping up on Wednesday. I can't get much done before then...

Here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOVZQgXl9k

Thats lovely...

Ha, by the time we are talking hi hat mics I'll use whatever there is available I've used all sorts from a Rhode NT3 (not at all bad, but maybe a bit too 'splatty'), to a crapped out old ribbon mic (sounded rather fabulous actually, lovely chick sound when closed without ever sounding harsh as the hats opened). The trick is to listen to that mic soloed when you are placing it, you have to hear what it is picking up, most hihats sound terrible close miced and position becomes super important, a hypercardioid mic can really help because you can turn it off axis and lose some of the worst of the bite. When ever you place a mic like this you obviously also need to bring up the other mics and check for phase and spill issues, you can build a little spill shield out of a 5" disc of heavy mdf and some acoustic foam too (it can help, honestly!). If you are recording super dry drums (can we say 70s funk) a great hi hat mic can be really important, although you can do at least as well with a ribbon mic off the side of the snare drum sharing duty with the snare and the hi hat (search for George Massenburgs tips on drum micing on youtube, the guy is a bona fide legend!). If your drums are soggier than a biscuit at a public school then all you want from that hi hat is to get a little more presence to the attack of the hihat sound in the OHs, and for that you really just need a sound that doesnt totally wreck the timbre of the OH hihat. This hihat track is really fighting the 'real' distance timbre of the hihht in the mix though (its got horrible resonances in it which is why this is happening), I havent entirely given up on it yet, but if I cut much more out with eq it may as well not be there