51m0n

Its just good when the chemistry is there....

Cheers!

When they are available you could do a whole lot worse than one of these (warning you will need some solder skills) http://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/store/kits/ferrite-passive-di/

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1362495844' post='2000161'] Or get yourself a Line6 Pod or equivilent It won't sound the best but it will do most jobs slightly better than ok if you spend time with it and it won't annoy your parents [/quote] Spoil sport

The drums on these were recorded with just 4 mics:- https://soundcloud.com/lines-horizontal/the-individuils https://soundcloud.com/lines-horizontal/harvest

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1362450557' post='2000014'] You would record electric guitar in the same way, wouldn't you? [/quote] Thats not as simple question to answer as you might think. Are you looking to record a distorted/overdriven guitar sound? Then dont DI the guitar from the amp, it will sound like utter crud, that there speaker is a really nice low pass filter that adds some interesting resonance as well (ie just an eq wont match what its doing at all). The way to record an overdriven guitar is with one or two mics (hey that magic two again). Typically an SM57 and a ribbon mic of some kind (ribbons are fantastic, and probably not something you want to buy in the first year or two of your recording career - a Cascade Fathead II with Lundahl transformer will be more than adequate for your needs when you want one though). The placement of the microphones is ultra critical, moving them half an inch closer or further away from the cab can cause phase issues, moving them half an inch toward the center of the cone or the edge of the cone can dramatically change the timbre they pick up, changing the angle by even a few degrees can change how they sound hugely too. Huge amounts has been written on the subject of guitar cab micing! First things first, sm57 straight at the center of the cone as close as you can get without touching the speaker. This will be as bright a sound as you can get. As you move the mic further awway from the center of the cone it gets less brite sounding, if you turn it at an angle it gets less brite sounding. Experimetn, listen to the output, move the mic try again, rinse and repeat until its perfect. If you are recording yourself you have no excuse not to track the very best sounds you can, its lazyiness that stops people capturing great guitar sounds in the main - and neighbours who dont appreciate it of course. SM57s can sound pretty harsh. Thats where the ribbon comes in, typically backed of a little (3 or 4 inches, phase is a major issue with two mics so watch it!) from the cab, turned through 45 degress (ribbons dont like plosives and very very high signal levels, or phantom power, they are from a more delicate age generally - but sound incredible). The ribbon will seem dull - on its own you can eq in a lot of top end without it sounding harsh though, mixed in with a 57 it will add warmth and body to the sound without the need to resort to eq to get that from the 57. On the other hand if you are recording completely clean electric guitar (like Chic) then a DI is all you need ( or want), and a little chorus to taste... Example of guitar recorded with an SM57 and a Cascade Fathead II:- [url="https://soundcloud.com/51m0n-1/get-on-it/s-h2HsN"]https://soundcloud.c...t-on-it/s-h2HsN[/url] Full chain on the guitar was, modified US Tele -> Cornford -> SM57 -> API channel strip -> ALesis HD24 -> Fathead II -> Joe Meeq TwinQ -> ALesis HD24 Guitar is double and even triple tracked though... Oh the bass on that track was a Musicman StingRay into a decent DI to the mic input of the Joe Meeq TwinQ with the iron switch on (adds an extra transformer that was overloading slightly for some added harmonic texture) compressing quite hard and EQ'ed on with the TwinQ eq then straight into the HD24. Sounds awfully good to me that bass sound, only one channel to....

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1362440220' post='1999958'] The mixer has four subgroups that can be used as direct outs, and it does indeed have tape in. Edit: though it doesn't have tape ins, in the plural. [/quote] I stand by what I said then, its really not suitable for a studio desk, you really need either 8 groups with outs or direct outs on every channel, plus a tape in on every channel and a tape return monitor level on every channel. Otherwise its a live desk, and wont achieve what you need it to to use it as a recording desk.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1362439715' post='1999951'] I'm sorry? what advice am i fighting? i'm getting the DI box, as you recommended. I'm micing the bass cab as you suggested. I don't understand what advice i'm fighting. I know you have an absolute ton of experience, and that is why i asked, and i had hoped from a response from you in particular when i posted, Simon. (not that i don't value the advice from others, i do). I'm an absolute novice remember. [/quote] I think the best advice given here so far is keep it simple. For example one of the most enlightening moments I had when recording was realising that two mics on a drum kit in the right place sound better than ten mics that arent absolutely perfect. Four mics is now my personal favourite if I can. It makes the kit sound incredibly real, and still really powerful. More mics tend to dilute that reality, and more oftne than not introduce phase issues that are very hard if not impossible to sort out. Dont go for more than a DI and a mic on the bass, do get a 2 channel reasonable (ie the very best you can afford) 2 channel interface. WIth which you will be able to record you bass and make it sound great. You dont need a mixer, and a decent recording mixer is going to stretch your budget to breaking point (because they cost stupid money). Spend the money on the interface instead. You really only need two channels, the best of which are the Babyface or the Apogee Duet, MOTU are good (next tier down lets say), M-Audio have done usable interfaces (nothing spectacular). If you can the [url="http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/steinberg-ur824-usb-audio-interface--89987?gclid=CKy357yr5LUCFUbKtAodNWoA6A"]Steinberg UR824[/url] is good enough to record a live album with according to [url="http://www.michaelwagener.com/html/ww.html"]Michael Wagner from Wireworld studios[/url] ( and he is extremely well regarded in the industry) - actually he used 3 of them but the point is they are good enough, it will give you 8 channels off the bat and you could go mad as a duck thinkin up complicated ways to record your bass . If you got one of those you would be able to ditch the DI too as it has instrument level inputs. Its overkill in a lot of ways for what you need, but its stupidly good kit for the cash. A lot of ways to skin this particular cat, mixers arent in any of them that are worth while in my opinion....

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1362301096' post='1998011'] Would this mixer that Zenitram is selling do? http://basschat.co.uk/topic/199943-for-sale-yamaha-mx124-mixer/ [/quote] In short no. It's a live mixer by the look of it. No direct outs, no tape ins, not suitable for recording properly. Why are you determined to fight the advice of the people on here so hard? It's good advice from experienced people who have been there and done that and are entitled yo the T-shirt.

[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1362418180' post='1999397'] I've some stems if people want them. It's a cover song and theres percussions & horn sections in there. If you want them, let me know as i'll have to bounce them as they're currently just sat in a protools session. [/quote] Can you put a link to it in this thread:- http://basschat.co.uk/topic/201341-we-need-a-track-to-mix-for-march/ And we can choose in there. Just to try and keep it al together in one place, please. It would be really helpful!

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1362403585' post='1999187'] Only just seen this thread.....would've liked to give it a go...is this something that happens every month? [/quote] Thats the plan There will be a new March competition thread as soon as we have chosen a track

People of basschat, your mix competition entrants need your recorded songs! We need a selection of recorded songs to choose from for the March mix competition. Please put forward a song if:- [list] [*]You would like us to have a crack at mixing it (well duh!) [*]You have the full set of stems (ie each individual track as recorded, not a project file but a full length wav of the kick, and another of the hihat and another of the snare, and another of the bass etc etc etc for the song - people are all using different DAWs and this is the only guaranteed way of importing them) [*]You have the ownership of the track, or permission to put it forward (we dont want to be accused of any kind of naughtiness) [*]You can put the stems up on Soundcloud or some other equivalent for the entrants to download them from [/list] We will do our best to produce a really great mix of the song for you, you are invited to register your vote on the poll at the end of the month

You dont have to provide the rtack at all, just choose one from peoples suggestions/offers. If anyone has a track they'd like to submit (we need the full set of stems) then now is the time to put forward your suggestions....

REDDI is one of the best DIs you can get full stop.

Plux's LH500 is in the Gator shallow 2u case - fits like a glove....

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1362131000' post='1996088'] If it's on soundcloud you can still tell who's it is [/quote] Heh, no re-read what I said again mate. 1. Entrant sends me a PM with the link to their mix (could be soundcloud, could be box.net, could be dropbox.com, who cares) 2. I download the track, and rename it to say, A.wav (keeping a note of whom A.wav was sent to me by) 3. I upload A.wav to a new Soundcloud account 4. I link to the new soundcloud account with the obfuscated wavs in for people to vote on I know which mix came from whom, no one else does. I don't vote, anyone else who wants to can, without having a username to suggest to them a mix maybe should be good. That way I can enter too. That way even the entrants may not be entirely sure (althoug I think they will be pretty positive normally) which is theirs....

So sonce we are now in March I declare the Feb competition closed, the results are in:- [list=1] [*]51m0n: https://soundcloud.com/51m0n-1/mission-ray/s-xnnqG (5 votes [45.45%]) [*]Chrismanbass: https://soundcloud.com/chris-hallam-1/mission-ray-final (0 votes [0.00%]) [*]lurksalot: https://soundcloud.com/lurksalot/mission-ray-v2 (1 votes [9.09%]) [*]butlerk02: https://soundcloud.com/butlerk02/mr-basschat (1 votes [9.09%]) [*]moonbass: https://soundcloud.com/makossaband/mission-ray-4 (2 votes [18.18%]) [*]OldG: http://soundcloud.com/mickhastings/mission-ray-final (0 votes [0.00%]) [*]VasDim: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/70048273/Basschat.co.uk/Mission%20Ray%20-%20VasDim%60s%20Mix.mp3 (1 votes [9.09%]) [*]skol303: https://soundcloud.com/skol-mixes/mission-ray-by-dientes (1 votes [9.09%]) [/list] Hmmm. Right I suggest Moonbass chooses the next track to mix. Do we have any suggestions or does anyoine have a track they would like us to have a crack at?? Next time I think we should go for a blind vote. So if people PM me the links to their mixes I will associate each with a letter and download them and then upload them in a soundcloud account precisely for the purpose of the poll which will be in a completely random order (naturally). I wont vote, since I may well be highly biased knowing who is doing what. Does that sound reasonable?

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1362085609' post='1995670'] Cheers Si I am getting a better feel for the sound now , though sometimes I know something isn't right but am not sure what treatment it needs , [/quote] Its like anything mate, the more you work at it the more you find out you dont know until at some point you start to feel like you are really getting to grips with it, then someone will come along who is so far ahead of you that you realise that everything you learnt so far is still just the tip of the iceberg . I love it!

[quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1362079470' post='1995536'] cheers mate the reason the snare sounds snappy is cos its a sample snare i've hardly got any compression on the snare at all but besides that thanks for the advice [/quote] Thats either a really compressed snare sample, or its being compressed in a buss further down the chain then, its got all the hallmarks of a very fast attack compression setting on it, with quite a low threshold and a medium ratio (ie somewhere between 2:1 and 4:1). [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1362079470' post='1995536'] simon where are you thinking theres slapback on the vocal? i've run the effects track through a phaser might be what your hearing? [/quote] Its the reverb on the vocal, it either has some predelay set, or a predelay built in before a fairly hefty whack of early reflections comes back, which is exactly what a slapback delay is supposed to be mimicking. Early reflection ratios (ie how loud they are compared to the main body of a reverb) are super important to get to grips with in this stuff.

Heh, you should see the back of some of the rack sin the data center where my work runs it 'heavy machinery' Bet you'll have a lovely time snorting solder fumes on the patchbays though ("I love the smell of solder early in the morning")

100% pure awesome Gong lady the juggly woman is my favourite....

[quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1362079470' post='1995536'] cheers mate the reason the snare sounds snappy is cos its a sample snare i've hardly got any compression on the snare at all but besides that thanks for the advice simon where are you thinking theres slapback on the vocal? i've run the effects track through a phaser might be what your hearing? [/quote] Aha then it wasnt always getting triggered off the snare in the track - have another listen, there are a few 'missed' snares that are there in the OH but arent coming through with the sample...

Right here are my thoughts as I listened through the mixes. Its not very well written, and its pretty abrupt, but first impressions are everything in this game I think, listen too much and any amount of awful can start to sound good. No offence intended to anyone, I really think the level has gone up a whole big step this time around from everyone involved! [b]SKOL[/b] Muffled kick and bass Bright and rather 'small' snare Lead vocals need a bit more presence Guitars nicely present and wide but extra parts dont 'jump out' as much as I'd like Bvs nicely placed [b]OLDG[/b] Slightly over compressed snare, kick is good and punchy, not big enough? Certainly pokes through, and competes with the bass though. Bit more EQ and that would be bang on! Nice bass sound there, gets a little lost against the guitars unfortunately Harsh funk guitar Trashy hats, they sound a bit 'pumpy', is there a compressor threshold/release or gate threshold/release thats opening and closing around them on something like the OH a bit? Some phase oddness perhaps... Very present guitars, nice, but maybe just bordering on the fizz I dont dig so much. I think you get away with it in the main. Slightly middy vocal? Dry - where is the sense of a space? [b]CHRISMANBASS[/b] Slapback on vocals? Bit odd Over compressed snare - gate threshold not right, its dropping some of the lighter snare hits (which is an unforgivable crime!) Thwacky nasty kick too middly - EQ far harder!! Guitars present - very dry not too bright though - nice! [b]LURKSALOT[/b] Kick needs a lot of work, eq pull out the mids a lot more to get some thump and slap (boost around 4KHz) Big reverb, early reflections too loud adding a slapback delay on lead vocal (which has a little too much low mid) Guitars could be even wider, maybe the verb pulling them central Bass sound is nice especially in mellow middle section! Better and better though Lurks, definitely moving in the right direction on this one.. [b]MOONBASS[/b] Guitars could be wider at the begining but it works ok as a feature part I think. Kick drum rather muffled, needs more click to back up the bass, I want to hear and feel every single kick, a lot of the lighter kicks are lost completely in the murk I think. Bass a bit wooly for me in the loud parts, there is such a good sound in there, then in the mellow bit you can really hear that groink. Super work on the guitars in the mellow bit, nice modulation! Love the fade in on the bass part(?) at the end of the middle 8 Lead vocs are good and forward, a little too bright maybe (tad harsh in the loudest parts is all) Clap could sound a bit more cracky, and some (more) ambience on it woudl give it a tail that would emphasise the entire snare, tricky to do that right though. Good mix overall though, some very good ideas, just all a bit congested in the low mids in the rhythm section I think. [b]BUTLERK02[/b] BIIIIG KIICK! Bit too much adds some mud with the bass Very dry, hats swishy swassshhhy, need to control that better I think (hint high shelf eq on the top snare mic set to -12dB and roll the frequency down from 20KHz until you get the perfect blend between the snare and hats) Good snare though, woody Lead vocal a little low mid heavy? Guitars are spread really well and very crisp, gives masses of room for the vocals, nice work! The lead parts are bordering on fizzy for me though, which I absolutely hate. Need to hear that lovely bass growl a little more in the main verse chorus sections I think, sounds so good in the mellow part after all! Great bvs! [b]VASDIM[/b] Snare is a bit muddy, full though, its overpowering the kick drum rather plus the toms are in another world from the rest of the kit! Guitars are nice, good control of the extreme top end, no fizzzzz Funk guitar is a bit loud and full for my liking Lead vocal is a bit heavy in the low mid too, wonder whether your monitors are light in that area and you are mixing to compensate? Like the guitar treatment in the middle 8. Very very dry, there is no ambience or sense of space to speak of, which is preventing cohesion, there are a selection of instruments playing at the same time, but not necessarily in the same space I think? [b]VIRTUALLY EVERYONE [/b](not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, this is just what I felt from listening to all these mixes) ...had the snare roll too loud out of the middle 8 for my liking, really felt that absolutely had to fade in, listen to my mix where its all reverb and room at the beginning of the snare roll and the actual snare drum fades in as the roll goes on, its like the drummer walks right up to the vocalist from about 50 yards back during that roll, made it far more musical for me. Also I cant stress how much I felt this song needed to sound huuuge in a massive place, arena sized and then some, and every mix here (other than mine) sounds like its either very dry or has a reverb with a ton of early reflections on it making it sound like its in a very small space, in some cases we are nearing John Lennon levels of slapback delay, and that very rarely sounds good (it didnt for him either IMO ). I think that is what sets my mix apart from the rest, the band are in a huge space for a huge pop rock song. Its not a very popular thing to do these days I think (use that much reverb), although apparently reverb is coming back in these days, but it still sounds totally epic compared to the ultra tight bright mixes that I think are generally easier to produce (reverb can really overpower you need to absolutely pick the perfect one and tweak it and filter it to get this sound right) and end up sounding far less dramatic. One trick is to use a plate reverb on the vocal (but its got to be the right plate) since they tend to allow the vocal to sit forward even though there is a ton of reverb on them. The snare in my mix is backed up by a very very wide plate reverb that fills in the back beat, its a neat trick for getting a weedy snare to sound bigger without resorting to 80's gated reverbs (which I hate). IIRC there was a third reverb, and a stereo panned delay on the mix too, all helping to make a big airy sound that joins everything else up. Tricky though, I still cant decide if the guitars arent a tad too far back as a result, but the song does sound big, thats for sure. Of course mine isnt the song writer's favourite mix so what the hell do I know , very well done Moonbass for realisisng the mix the closest to how the songwriter imagined it should be. No small accomplishment that! Dont be afraid to use massively enormous eq cuts on the drums, these were immensely uninspiring sounds as tracked, and the kick in particular needed gobs and gobs of eq cut in the mids to get it to sound remotely like it needs to to stand its ground against the bass and snare. When a sound is gash do whatever it takes to get rid of the awful, and what is left will be at the very least usable IME. Having said all this and sounded maybe a bit negative I do think that the quality of the mixes has gone up a notch all round this month (possible exception being Skol, but he did his in about 5 minutes so thats only to be expected really!). Really really well done to everyone. I havent voted, I would have voted for mine, really because I think its one of the best mixes I've ever done for capturing a song in a space, and by gum thats a great bass sound (I also think I dealt with the 'damaged' drum tracks really well too), I am totally chuffed with it. But in my excitement to realise the mix in that big space I missed what the songwriter wanted completely it seems. Never mind! It has been an absolute pleasure mixing this track, its a great song, and I urge you all to buy the album too, this is not a great song standing alone by any means!

Voting ends tomorrow evening, would appreciate some more input chaps...