51m0n

The difference betweeen a producer and a mix engineer may seem to be blurred, but it isnt really. A mix engineer is given a set of tracks that have been recorded with more or (if he's a name engineer) less rigourous instruction as to the desired result, and a couple of rough mixes (which he must choose how much to listen to) which he must blow out of the water. He can change the arrangement a little, (ie by choosing to leave stuff out, or fly some stuff in elsewhere) but he must absolutely be able to back those choices up, best if the missing parts arent even noticed. If that sounds unlikely, bear in mind that there were over 120 tracks in some of the songs on Pink's last album (for instance) - clearly some of those could have gone walkies and no one would really be sure. A producer on the other hand is there from preproduction, she gets to hear the initial ideas and shape the arrangements from the beginning before tracking, she is there to ensure the budget is stuck to (massive massive part of producing) and to make the bands efforts gel into her concept of the album (or EP or single or whatever). So if your engineer is tracking you and mixing you, they still arent producing you, because they arent managing the budget, and they didnt hear the preproduction, they didnt help evolve the arrangement beforehand, and they dont have a vision, they are flying by the seat of their pants. If they say they are producing you at that point they are talking baloney, dont let them have delusions of grandeur about tracking and mixing a session, it isnt the same thing! This is so different its a totally different ballpark. A good producer will hand off to an expert mix engineer to help that vision be realised. The mix engineer will be happiest to receive the fewest tracks possible with an outstanding arrangement that pays off the listener into and through every section, but more often than not somewhere in the process up to that point there is ususally more than there needs to be, and that is where a mix engineer needs to be an expert musically as well to recognise this and improve the final mix of the song by cutting or changing that little bit to realise the best possible mix. Thats the bit I find hardest to do, I love getting it all sounding great together, I love pushing the boundary on the sound and trying not to mix to safe (safe mixes are boring, you need to find something extra in there somehow or it wont convert into anything other than another fine but boring song). But actually by the time I'm doen with it I ususally love it, so I stick with every part up tp that point, and dont want to lose a thing.... Having said that ther was one track on No Second Chance that I nearly binned, I didnt like it at all, it stayed in the end, but it still makes me feel 'off' in there now. And we havent touched on editing at all either, which you wont get done by any full on mix engineer for you without paying (loads) extra. They arent there to fix the performance, they are there to make it sound the best tey can - its a different thing. If we can do mixes and find something that everybody wants to learn from in some of them each time, then as long as the people involved share their thoughts and ideas and how they went about achieving things, then there is a huge worth in what we are doing. Its not about who is the best at mixing its about provoking thought and questions and getting answers, and help fo ranyone who wants it. Well that was the intention from me anyway. The voting thing is just a bit of fun anyway, its the learning bit that matters!

I've covered Hard to Handle, fun song to play that, never really got punters boogeying away though, not like LaBamba did (the shame)...

All good then, as you were, carry on etc etc

Walk This Way - the RunDMC version, still got the hugemongious guitar riff, but funky as hell if you can pull of the hip hop feel...

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1358439340' post='1939195'] Funk, but not from the '70s?! Does not compute? :-D IMO funk became dodgy with the arrival of disco, and has only declined since ([b]happy to be proved wrong[/b]) How about something from the '60s like Lee Dorsey? [/quote] Meshell Ndegeocello - funky as anything ever created in the 70's (IMO):- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_0SU2jLTjY

Interesting points. But its a different discipline from composition, so it will be a different experience to find a preferred version. You can not like the track and still find the mix that either conveys the track the best to you, or seems in some way better on a technical level (if you really cant stand the music). That is, however, very much the nature of mixing, and I actually think that people who bother to try and find a favourite in this kind of thing will end up gaining a new found respoect for mixing as it finally slowly dawns on them that sometimes mixers can create great fabulous engaging mixes of songs [i]they[/i] dont like either. That is a part of the challenge of mixing, its finding a way to like what you are doing irrespective of whether or not you like the song or some aspect of it very much. If you read the entire thread about it (and why would you) you would have seen the question of remixing turn up. The idea is to do the best mix, so that is not to replace everything with new parts and create a new arrangement from scratch, effectively using the multitrack as a set of samples to dip into as and when you feel like. Having said that it is well within the remit of a mixer to alter arrangements here and there, by dropping a part they cant stand, or feel doesnt improve the song at all, or leaving it to come in later as an added boost to a song further into it. Furthermore the use of drum samples to beef up drums isnt disallowed, although I have never ever liked this approach, I'd personally rather take what is there and make it the best it can be and find something in it to love, however bad it is , it is at least unique, and uniquely of that song/band then. Of course if you hate the song, or all the mixes, then dont bother getting past a couple before deciding voting on this is not for you. I think its fair to say that whilst the compostion competition is focussed on the very macroscopic creativity of writing the piece, and if the recording of it doesnt sound great then thats fine and shouldnt stop a track doing well, the mix competition is incredibly microscopic, looking at tiny details of how a song is presented to the listener, and if the song isnt your cup of tea, then thats not relevant, the quality of the mix is what matters. It requires an ability to seperate the soudn of a mix from the content of the song, I honestly think some people just cant do that very well at all...

Ta! OldG's entry is working again now for anyone waiting to hear it before casting their vote...

Living in America by JB....

And for me the GS112 is way too scooped Horses for courses you see...

When Doves Cry

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1358430406' post='1938964'] The original link is working for me (unless you've just altered it?) [/quote] OldG has replaced his original mix, nothing to do with me other than the moaning

Furthermore you've removed the original and now peopl ecant hear what you had there in order to vote on it

Hmmm, I am pretty sure that as a sanity check I opened every one when I built the poll. How tedious!

That link isnt working, it requires people to log on to soundcloud....

Isnt that Silddx on bass??

If you want to be able to 'do it properly' that Alesis doohicky isnt even close to as expensive as its going to get. The current "best of the best" interface for an iPad is the RME UCX. Incredible bit of kit, and way beyond what you need, being the only interface for an iPad currently that has 8 ins and outs (full USB2.0 complient connectivity in other words, all the rest dont), but it is what it is...

The effort is properly appreciated!

No one else ready to vote? All you need do is have a listen to each track off soundcloud and choose your favourite........ Go on!

Still digging the exceptional Zainichi Funk:- [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5umJNq3PhU[/media]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358369200' post='1938091'] Stop thinking...... drive to Bassdirect and try the cabs out. Mark is very helpful. [/quote] +1 Take your wallet!

I think that looks excellent - especially the DIY bit, creative bit of business strategy that, you have no idea how many times I've done a bit of sly tracking in an at best halfway decent sounding rehearsal room to help friends out etc etc, knowing the room is going to sound excellent wouldnt half help!

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358344664' post='1937343'] Another thing, i can never hear any slap i do in the mix, it always thins out and goes very quiet. Does the blame lie with my 4x10 Laney cab? [/quote] That could be a whole bunch of things. I used to suffer this with slapping as well a bit: I had a Laney rig years ago, a G300 and two 410s, it was heavy, but worked I guess, but it isnt the Laney cab thats doing this I think. I've found that getting a reasonable tone and volume when going to and from fingerstyle and slap is a lot to do with your eq habits. I find that with slapping the low end of the note is more in the low mid region of the frequency spectrum, whilst with fingerstyle its deeper. This means that if I eq the typical slap sound (all scooped mids and what have you) then in a mix when you go fingerstyle you get way to much low end. If you eq for a fingerstyle solo sound (scoop out the low mid mud) then when you go to slap it just looses all its punch. I now eq in a tiny bit of low end, to extend the bottom off my bass/rig just a bit, and often boost a little low mid as well, the high mid gets a tiny cut if I want to sound big and smooth, and the treble is flat unless my strings are truly shot (which I dont let happen). Anything like a smiley face eq is going to wreck your ability to hear bass in a mix, if you dont like the sound of your bass pretty flat then you need a differnt instrumetn, because if you are eqing heavily to get 'your sound' for one technique it tends (IME) to adversely affect the sound when you change to a different technique. The only other thing I always have going on is some carefully set up transparent compression, which can also hel pto keep the bass nice and up front in the mix. Moving up to a BF 212T or similar quality cab is going to really really help you to no tneed so much EQ IMO.

Recently bought a new pair of headphones to go with my venerable Sennheiser HD595s (which are frankly worn out, the top end doesnt extend as far as it once did, and I've worn them for about 7 hours a day, 5 days a week since about 2001, they are truly knackered!). Having had a look around, and being a total cheapskate I went for some Studiospares M1000s. Initially thoughts on getting the box delivered was "What the heck is this" it turned up next day on very reasonable postage and packing charges. They come in a carry case (nicely done) with an extra pair of the muff bits (do the ones it came with wear out really quickly or not??) and a really nice cable (that detaches in a fairly standard way from the cans themselves). The cans themselves certainly look the part, very solid construction, you wouldnt think they were £60 new, thats for sure. The headband is pretty tight on my head, but all the reviews seem to think this will ease off over time to end up very comfy. They are very nicely padded though and give a huge sense of isolation over the sennheisers (which are open backed, the M1000s are closed backed, so this is only to be expected). They also dont leak at all, at even quite loud volumes, which will be great for tracking mic'ed up 'stuff'. The sound is pin sharp without being too trebly, however they are at present somewhat light in the bottom octave or two, there is a definite roll off down there (especially compared to the sennheisers). However, if I run some 25Hz through them for a while they open up in the low end significantly, so it may well be a case that they just need some time to really wear in. I certainly hope so, as I do love to have that bottom octave right there. The drivers can produce these frequencies fine (a little eqing does wonders) but I'd prefer them to not need it. I intend to use them for tracking stuff at home mainly (although they will be fine for location recording too) and have been using the RME UCX to drive them exclusively - its headphone out is superb, so if they didnt sound great off that then they would have been gash. Certainly good value for rmoney though, and if they last as well as they look like they should I shall be using them for years...