51m0n

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1357585005' post='1924930'] There are some great ideas in all the mixes and the range of approaches is amazing. Can I suggest everyone allows downloads on their mix, so they can be listened to anywhere without streaming on line. Should my original mix be included in the competition? Steve. [/quote] Yes, definitely!

I think this is pretty important, people, we should all be downloading the files to do a proper comparison - well as proper as we can - without the inherent mangling of soundcloud's streaming. If you cant be bothered that doesnt matter really, but in the interest of really trying to hear whats there it should be worth while... 192KHz, crikey, I'd need a more substantial machine for mixing to go up that high!

[quote name='ZenBasses' timestamp='1357582553' post='1924861'] .... I don't really get the argument for cds being cold..?.. It's more to do with the advancements of microphones. Old style mics picked up much more 'background noise' made up of reflections off walls, people, instruments etc etc.. This gives a better sense of actually being 'in the room'? .... [/quote] Errr, not sure about that. Most serious studios are more than proud to have several Neumann U47s (FET and tube), U67s and U87s, not to mention Telefunken and Coles, RCA and all manner of other interesting vintage oddities alongside the likes of many far more modern but equally superb mics such as those made by Nordic Audio Labs at the highest end and AKG, Audio Technica, Sennheiser and Shure and whoever else you care to name lower down that list. Mics then didn't "capture more of the room" than they do now, that is entirely dependent on mic pickup pattern, and they are all available now as they were then. Ribbon mics may be the technology you are referring to as they are typically figure of 8 pattern and will therefore pickup a lot of room. Ribbons were in use before anything else I think, but dynamics and condensors go back a very very long way indeed, the first electret condensor was invented in 1916 at Bell labs IIRC. It may surprise you to know that there has been a huge resurgence in ribbon mic usage over the last ten or 15 years since cheaper Chinese models with excellent characteristics have flooded into the market. Although they have never been truly out of fashion, Bruce Swedien made extensive use of ribbons (B&O ribbons I think, although he says he has moved on to Royers these days) when he layed the tracks down for Michael Jackson's Thriller album - for instance. Ribbons have a corrugated aluminium foil 'membrane' and so have more mass than more modern mic designs, and therefore respond more slowly to changes in air pressure (sound) meaning they tend towards being somewhat darker, and some might say apply a mechanical limiting to transients. They sound fantastic in the right place. And that is the same now as it ever was, the best mic for a given application is the one that sounds best in that application at that time, it has nothing to do with the era in which it was designed or the type of mic or anything else. All that matters is does it sound better than the rest of your options in that particular scenario....

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1357577372' post='1924761'] This is the really ironic thing. My understanding is that vinyl has a dynamic range of about 55-65dB (it varies because of the varying effective speed of the groove under the stylus as it moves across the record) whereas CDs have a dynamic range of well over 90db - a huge improvement. Meanwhile, modern production is all about audio compression that wrings the dynamics out of recordings! (OK, there are exceptions of course, but the trend is fairly clear). Funny old world. [/quote] I couldnt agree more! Although I think that in fairness a lot of mixing isnt done for volume per se, its done for the best and most emotive production of the song for themselves that the mix engineer is capable of producing from the raw tracks. I mean a lot of heavy rock was all about trying to be louder than everyone else, and the Motown mastering engineers were very upset by the volume o fthe White album by some upstarts from the UK. It tends to be not even the mastering engineer really, its the person paying them that states "Make this the loudest thing ever" or "It must be as loud as <[i]insert any rancid pop artists name you hate here[/i]>'s last single or we wont use you again" So who's fault is it exactly? And it isnt going away, far from it! The Loudness War is still going, the accepted level of a CD has not dropped, the average level is still unbelievably high compared to the peak level in all contemporary pop, EDM, rock, you name it, if it isnt old school (jazz or classical) then its being pumped up during mastering.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357576665' post='1924754'] The lack of dynamic range, the music being loud and blaring as opposed to being natural and dynamic. [/quote] Yeah thats mainly mastering for volume, although in truth there are particular methodologies that can be used when mixing to maximise the mastering engineers chances of getting that last 1 or 2dB of RMS level. In itself its nothing to do with mp3 data compression, [i]except[/i] that tracks mastered for absolute maximum volume tend to produce more artifacts as a result of a subsequent mp3 conversion. Appraently (I've never actually attempted to verify this myself)

Been out sorting out the guttering all Xmas and missed this. Damned blockages!!

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357570753' post='1924636'] Is it to do with our ever higher speed of life? Gone are the days in my life when I stretched back in the apex of the speaker set up and enjoyed an hour or so of listening to music. I probably listen to more music nowadays but its Spotify to accompany my work and MP3s in the car/ipod etc. More but less quality. With so much [b]compression [/b]on modern 'recordings' there's less benefit in a lovely sound system compared to recordings such as the Dave Brubeck album mentioned earlier. [/quote] Which type of compression are you talking about here, data compression or audio? I think a lot of music is mastered in a far too loud for louds sake (by which I mean technically a higher average level to peak level ratio, with the peak level at or fractionally below 0dBFs) achieved by various devices (compressors to a degree, but the real culpit is pushing into a brickwall limiter too hard). This is a small part of the mastering process, and has nothing to do with compression as used during tracking/mixing. However if you harken back to the grand all analogue days of big consoles in big studios with big tape decks, then compression was on every single track in the form of tape compression, which sounds lovely on drums, vocals - well, everything There isnt more compression generally these days, there si too much of the wrong compression in the wrong place IMO. Its a terrible shame too, and it has ruined hifi for a generation, left us in a world where people dont experience decent qualtiy playback at all for the majority if not the entirety of their lives, and at least in part given the poor old CD a terrible terrible name for itself.

Mp3s are good for what they were originally designed for, small file size at the expense of lower quality. So good that they have become ubiquitous. Oggs are open source and present a slightly better result in terms of fidelity for the same file size. Given the recent demand from the Mp3 people to some manufacturer (sorry this was pre Christmas) regarding licensing fees they felt they should be paid we may start to hear more about oggs if that continues... I cant really hear the difference between a 320kbps mp3 (or evquivalent ogg) and CD anywhere where I would be likely to use an mp3 anyway (ie on headphones or in the car - my car is noisey as hell I'm afraid). BigRedX is bang on about studio cabling, there are kilometers of cable in a serious studio, its there for audio, and digital data, it is good quality not daftly expensive cable with appropriate quality connectors. The reason why hifi connectors are huge jump from the standard ones shipped in the cardboard box with seperates is simply that the one in the box is utter gash. Klotz cable, neutriks connectors, good enough for Abbey Road, good enough for me.... I've recently (over christmas) been ripping some tapes (stuff that isnt available any other way I hasten to add) via my RME UCX, they sound absolutely crap. Some are what was considered very high quality cassette at the time, recorded at good levels for tape, with appropriate efforts at noise reduction. They are the ones that are just about listenable. Its not just the hiss, its the print through as well. The rest are going to end up being binned. Higher sample rate mp3 absolutely blows cassette away for sound quality. Not so reel to reel (even quarter inch), but cassettes sucked. And that is including trying a variety of software hiss removal tools to see if the situation could be meaningfully improved - it can, a bit, but the downside is artifacts that rival those of a poor quality mp3. Oh and there is nothing wrong with the tape deck being used, it is reproducing the hiss that is on the tape, not inventing it . Given the quality of cassette tape I dont think most people were ever that bothered about quality then I'm not going to get drawn back into another pointless digital versus analogue discussion, but I do think that people in general are probably spending as much on media devices as they ever did, its just that the devices in question are now far smaller (including the speakers), since that is what the market demands in general,;until you get into the small percentage of people willing to blow over a couple of grand on a hifi - who are willing to make serious sacrifices in space for sound quality. And if you have small speakers and a little amp the sound quality is going to be rubbish. There was a recent piece on the Gadget show for ipod docks, and they were getting completely over excited about the sound quality of a tiny little box that could not possibly have been anything remotely stereo, let alone hifi, they trotted out all the usual gash phrases from the marketing blurb and clearly havent been in a room with serious audio reproduction kit for far too long. Its a shame, but there you go...

I'll leave it another week then before attempting to turn this into a poll (and no doubt cocking it up - anyone got any advice so as not to balls it up, or is it [i]very [/i]obvIous?) I have no problems with people submitting revisions to their mix, or even whole new second mixes if you want. Go for it, but lets say submissions in by Monday 14th, and I'll do the poll thing that evening? Remember whatever else happens you have to be prepared to spill the beans on what you did, and how you did it or you cant 'win' that way we can all learn something

Oh bum, got to work and realised I've left my headphones at home so I wont be able to spend the day comparing all the mixes so far. Knickers! Is there anyone else looking to drop a mix in here or shall I set up the poll with what we have?

Won't the little cages vibrate sympathetically too? Or are they under a great deal of tension from the weight of the rocks?? Never built a stone room myself so I have no idea what the result should be, but I'd expect a long bright diffuse reverb for the room size. Is that even close to your expectation??

Yeah, I know listening back that snare is properly in your face isnt it I still like it there, it adds a nice character I think. Then again I rather wish I'd pulled the djembe up a tad having listened to yours. Mix envy, its a killer!

Yeah, have a read of my blog post on compressors when you get it, it should help (I hope!) http://blog.basschat.co.uk/setting-up-a-compressor/

[quote name='butlerk02' timestamp='1357167204' post='1918692'] Right then, still not 100% happy with this so comments are welcome : ) [url="https://soundcloud.com/butlerk02/redstriper-1"]https://soundcloud.c...02/redstriper-1[/url] [/quote] Heh, this is very different from mine Much more emphasis on the percussion than I have, love the way everyone hears it differently! I think its all a bit crowded down the middle if I'm going to be something of a harsh critic, and the drums are a bit lost compared to the percussion maybe? Not a bad effort at all though, that reverb on the lead vocal is a bit roomy for my liking too. But then everyone may well prefer yours to mine anyway, so it could be exactly right and I'm completely talking out of my bum! Mine is here:- [url="https://soundcloud.com/51m0n-1/no-2nd-chance/s-6Tbvx"]https://soundcloud.c...-chance/s-6Tbvx[/url] Feel free to rip it to bits Oh and just to add this was done with Reaper, using Reaper's own built in fx and a few other vsts* (all of them free) plus some freely available reverb I.R.s. Total software outlay of $60 then * Bootsy's Variety of Sound VSTs are as good as anything I've heard, they really really help to make a mix 'pop' for me. The inbuilt Reaper compressor is almost the single most underated compressor on the planet IMO, similarly the Reaper EQ is pretty much perfect for any kind of general EQing I need. I use a few other Compressors, EQs and Reverbs: mainly though not exclusively from Bootsy, I used to use SIR for convolution reverbs but dont anymore as it doesn't play at all nice in a 64bit environment - so now I use Reaverb instead, which is excellent, although the interface isnt as nice as the SIR one. Convolution reverbs sound great but they arent the absolute be all and end all, there are some great free algorithmic reverbs, EpicVerb from Bootsy, Ambience, Glaceverb and the TAL reverbs (esp TAL II which is a really nice Plate reverb). All of which tend to be lighter on the old CPU than a convolution reverb is.

[quote name='butlerk02' timestamp='1357167204' post='1918692'] Right then, still not 100% happy with this so comments are welcome : ) [url="https://soundcloud.com/butlerk02/redstriper-1"]https://soundcloud.c...02/redstriper-1[/url] [/quote] Will try and get a listen to this this evening, about to finish doing dinner wight now. Mine still needs a bit of work, but its getting there...

Ooof that Xmas pudding keeps repeating on me....

Reaper isn't free, its $60. It is certainly a full featured decent DAW for audio work (it lacks for video and notation, and some people find it misses out some mroe esoteric MIDI stuff). If you are doing demo's, or full albums, and are concerned with the audio side first, then it will be fine. A great 8 channel (expandable to 24 ) interface is the Steinberg UR824 - decent mic pres, pretty good drivers. It may not seem cheap but it is a massive amount of useable kit for the money. If you need a couple of channels and are PC based then the pick of the bunch IMO is the RME Babyface - but it isn't cheap, MOTU interfaces are good, Focusrite Scarlet are OK, M-Audio can be useable. You get what you pay for though most of the time though....

It will cover far more than just bass, and its good metering will mean you will have a great tool for educating yourself, and your ears to comperssion. Enjoy it!

Post it when you're ready I intend to indulge in large quantaties of exceedingly good food before I consider posting anything at all

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1356019458' post='1905832'] Anyone know anything about the Alesis 3632 Dual Channel Compressor/Limiter/Gate? [url="http://www.alesis.com/3632compressor"]http://www.alesis.com/3632compressor[/url] It's £99 and a 1u rack unit. I was thinking about it for Bass but also to hook up to my mixer for recording and PA. Is it any good? Would I be better off going for one dedicated to Bass? [/quote] Perfectly adequate for live. Recording, well, its a bottom of the range compressor. It will work fine, it shouldnt be too noisy, it wont reek of mystical mojo, but if you know what you're doing it should ok. Plus points - it has great metering (the importance of which is not to be underestimated at all)

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1356196422' post='1907881'] Sexy looking turntable, but does it not belong in the rubbish bin along with my linn sondek?. To do otherwise is simply not in the interest of Science (Out of curiosity what brand of turntable is it) [/quote] Heh, oh give over If you like your gramophone you don't have to put it in the bin, consider it an heirloom or something, a bit like an ear trumpet

Wood room by any chance??

Thats fantastic, thanks for sharing...

Holy cow! Sounds just like normal vinyl too

Whatever... Whose for clotted cream?