51m0n

Never fix eq or timbral issues solo when you are trying to sort out the sound in the mix. Ever...

I take it you tracked it using all your lovely toys though (that API desk leaps into my mind - hubba hubba!), in your lovely rooms, using lovely instruments? I'm sure that doesnt hurt one little bit

Reaper, lets you find the pitch, tune it to the right pitch, change the speed without changing the pitch, filter out the top end to help you hear the bass part, pitch shift the result up an octave to make it even clearer, loop a section, loop a single note (!), record your effort along with it. Anything you like. Costs $60 It is awesome for practicing with as well as being a full blown DAW.

Bobby Vega kills it every time. Love his feel

Well best of luck with it whatever you choose. Do be completely rehearsed as a band with a click/clap track before going into the studio Do have a great time and try and zone out any stress going on Do play us the results

Read this:- [url="http://www.sonicscoop.com/2012/11/15/beyond-the-basics-demystifying-db/"]http://www.sonicscoo...emystifying-db/[/url] No go back and read it again. Now does all that stuff make sense??

Actually the guy engineering has to be the producer too in these cases, since there is no one else there to do that role - I am assuming you will be tracking live as far as possible, and so there will be no one to listen in the control room as each take goes by. He will run the session, he will make decisions regarding good versus bad takes all the time, he will be the extra ears, the quality control, the nursemaid to the band, he will play psychologist to the performers in order to achieve the best result. It absolutely goes with the territory IME. If you make him deal with new kit as well you may get a great result or not, if he has a bit of gear he is saying use, then he probably can quote you a half dozen reasons why it will work better for him on the day, and subsequently you. Why not ask him for all the gory details of his thought process here up front, and some tracks to listen to with said amp on while you are at it.... And it is the studios session, unless you pay for it it is their multitrack tape too in point of fact (or data). You have bought a two track stereo mix of the session unless you agree up front to having stems run off, or buy the actual multitrack reel if it goes down to tape. Either way you have absolutely no dibs on his mixing technique at all so you wont get a protools session out of him for love nor money (or the equivalent DAW project file) since that skill is what he brings to the table.

[quote name='waldemar' timestamp='1354636681' post='1888486'] >You havent booked enough time to be playing about Yep, you're exactly right, Si, which is why it's a bit funny that he's after using a vintage rig that isn't mine... I'd have thought that for what we're doing (a basic demo to help us get more gigs) a DI would have sufficed, which is why the question of whether this was going to make that big a difference arose. Like I said before, he's a good guy and he's been fantastic to have around when he's done the sound at a few of our gigs. I'll take both rigs and see what happens on the day. I'm fairly easy about the whole thing and in this case happy to do as I'm told. Hehe - for the record, I can be unpacked, plugged in, tuned up and ready within 5 minutes... Probably less. Won't be me that's wasting time..! [/quote] You can yes, but he has to get drum sounds - and if your drummer is using his full kit then that can be a significant deal, new heads, proper tuning, mic positions etc, in a 'real' recording environment drum sounds alone are a day of effort - no joking at all! You woudl want to allow him a good 45 minutes, after the kit is set up. This i going to tape, there will be precious little time to fix it later, so it has to be bang on on the way down. Unfortunately there int enough time for that, so he will have to make do with 15 minutes tops. Let him do it how he knows best then. He has to get bass sounds - the less variables here the better - I bet he takes a DI and a mic on the front of the rig he knows, and blends a bit of the grind from that rig in with the DI. Simply put a mic'ed cab will need to be close mic'ed so as not to get too much spill. This means it will be the sound of the cone rather than the cab (no port assisted low end then) plus the extra low end from the proximity effect, which will really be more low mid due to the cone not extending all the way down. No matter what he does the DI will be better for the bottom octave/fundamental of the note on the bottom five frets of the bass. So blend the DI below around 150Hz with the mic above and you get the best of both worlds. He will probably print both so he can change it per song at mix time. In reality the less variables he has here the better though, so he may choose the blend on the strength of the first song and print it blended. Consider yourselves lucky that he has given it a seconds thought. Of course he may go the simplest route and just have the rig, and eq some low end out of (virtually) nothing. Time time time.... He has to get guitar tones, so an SM57 right at the centre of the cone and a ribbon off to one side and angled is generous. The 57 for the crunch, the ribbon for warmth, smoothness and body, blended to taste. But your guitarista will want to hear it and add some special advice. If he has any sense the producer switch will be employed to achieve the guitarists needs at that point. Again expect the result to be tracked as a single blended track to remove options blindness later, you have no time for that at all. Keys? DI unless its a real Hammond, if he is sensible he will keep this mono, stereo keys are rubbish in a mix unless you limit their spread to almost mono anyway, the keyboard player is over 'there' at a gig, not spread the width of the stage! Pad sounds can be more stereo, but you don't have time to get clever (you don't have time to do more than a couple of songs in point of fact) Guitar solos will need overdubbing, and to get a great mix some rhythm guitar parts should be doubled if time allows, it sounds much much better to have the guitar doubled and hard panned in a mix, always does. Vocals, will need overdubbing unless there is a separate vocal booth (which will in all likelihood sound pants, and unless he has a really good reverb it will always sound a bit dodgy compared to a great live room overdub). Your vocalists ability to nail takes quickly is going to be a massive deal breaker on this, there is no time for clever comping. So 2 hours to get everything ready is tighter than a tight thing. 3 or 4 takes a track to get backing and you are looking at two tracks at most, because the vocal is going to take as long as the tracking does (I budget 2x the tracking time on vocals if I can, and the same time again for BVs) That 5 hours doesn't include mixing does it? Because if it does you are getting into unrealistically silly territory. You are going to get one or two roughly mixed demo tracks back for your investment. A proper mix takes at the very least 8 hours - in reality more like 15 IME. Of course you can mix quicker, but its not going to be anything like the same result.... The harsh reality is 5 hours is going to sound as good as you can play, and he can get sounds, and you have given him precious little time for that, so he is going to need to fall back on tried and tested formulae to get you a result in his studio with the kit h knows best, that he can mix in the allotted time. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354638559' post='1888531'] Whose recording is it anyway? The band's or the studio's? I'm assuming that the OP is using his own rig in the recording posted. It sounds appropriate to the song and the OP is familiar and comfortable with how it sounds in a band situation. If the studio engineer want to play at producer then he should also record a DI from the bass and re-amp into whatever he wants at his own time and expense. [/quote] Five hours mate, 1,2,3,4,5. No time for reamping at all, that is just not sensible in the time frame IMHO. That time would be far better spent on vocals IME - punters care more for the vocal than the rest of it, as long as the rest of it sits together well. If they want to get all precious about how it sounds, then by all means block book a week and do it properly, otherwise let the engineer do his thing. Or don't if you don't trust him, but in that case, use a different studio. In any case be realistic in your expectations!

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1354626893' post='1888291'] Chinese medicine just seems to work. Think about it, after 2000 years, if it didn't work, it wouldn't have been taken all around the world. The ancient Chinese was a great civilisation. shame they just take their food around the world now. (joking... i wouldn't mind a big Chinese feast right now) [/quote] Jeez the mind truly boggles.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

Wiith 5 hours you are doing a rough preproduction demo, nothing more. Cut down on time wasted by doing what the engineer says, to the letter. It may not be exactly your sound, but in the time you have it will deliver the best sound he can get for you. You havent booked enough time to be playing about, chances are your drummer will use a lot of the studio kit too, since if they are any cop he will have one set up and ready to rock right away.

Most profound moment of "No, I'll never ever get [i]that[/i] good at bass" was seeing our very own JakesBass hear a tune once and play the bass line straight away, in the right key without any fumbling around. Serious skill demonstrate by a serious player....

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1354552641' post='1887266'] It does essential effect the sound, even the pre-amp and power amp effect the signal in some way. There are plenty of EQ pedals out there, that are very diffinate effects, so it would be wrong to say an amps EQ isn't . Although I would say having amp is essential regardless(unless you are definitely just doing acoustic wityh an acoustic or upright bass) so you can really argue that point. [/quote] Not a big fan of the DI then????

Personally I like the challenge of just taking what is there and bending it to my will until I think it sounds as good as it could possibly sound. Like the hulk with a tank - "Puny drum sound, 51m0n smash!!!" But you know, each to their own Currently I've got a great 'vanilla' mix, whereby everything sound lovely, it all fits, but it hasn't gone through a second stage of "How far should I push this thing", which I'll get on to as soon as my main mixing machine gets back from having its touchpad fixed So as the rules stand, you can do whatever you like to make it sound how you want, but you do have to be prepared to explain how you did it. I should have said that the lower the budget on the mix the better (since if you have to spend hundreds of pounds to reproduce this mix then it is less accessible for everyone else here) but I didnt so as it stands you can spend as much as you like to produce the best mix - hell send it to Abbey Road if you like

I guessed ITB on GS, so I'll guess OTB here and feel smug somewhere Lovely sounding mix though!

Well if you want to use it for years and years get an RME, because they work as well on Mac as an Apogee and also work on PC as well.

I dont mean to suggest its a reason not to play your best, nopt to put the work in etc etc, but the inevitable happens, and to put it simply the worst you can do is let it affect you, at all.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354278795' post='1884341'] You'd be surprised how big a wreck it has to be before anyone in the audience really notices. What might be enough to stop a song in the rehearsal room, is generally escapable from in a gig situation. When my band is rehearsing specifically for a gig, we have an understanding that nothing should prevent us from getting to the end of a song. It's all about recovering from mistakes that sorts out how good your band is at playing. Learning how to recover from mistakes (and other peoples) is IMO as important as trying not to make them in the first place. .... [/quote] Actually that doesn't surprise me at all. In fact I'd go so far as to say you lot must have to rehearse as if your lives depended upon getting to the end of the song no matter what, if for no other reason than Monsieur Venom can be guaranteed to have launched himself across the bar at some point, swinging from the chandeliers whilst rubbing his barely clad crotch in the direction of anyone too shy to stare him full in the quiff. If he hasnt knocked his theremin over at least once per set whilst tying himself into a big knot with his mic lead (the yanking on the end of which risks life and limbs of both audience and remaining band members) he would no doubt considfer it a very very pedestrian performance indeed. Amazed me how well you held it all together to be honest....

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1354270137' post='1884229'] Thanks. Its all interesting stuff. I think the issue of the loudness war killing CD as a medium is the most salient aspect regarding the conversation, considering CD is capable of delivering so much more in terms of quality. I reckon thats the reason I tend to pull out some vinyl when I have some friends around . Cannot put up with the harsh sound that is part and parcel of so many albums released nowadays. I will have a shot at switching my CD player with the community of audiophiles that live locally to see can I get a better match for my system. Must keep an eye out for that RHCP double vinyl album. One of my favourite bands. Flea is the man really [/quote] [url="http://www.whatrecords.co.uk/items/24206.htm"]Looks like it may well be still available[/url] Although IIRC it was a limited edition, so thius may not be on the same quality vinyl as the one I am thinking of - vinyl, its a nightmare innit

Yeah, you struggle to go wrong with Apogee on a Mac. The Duets have a great reputation, and deservedly so...

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354202928' post='1883541'] I'm not keen on this. IME the majority of mistakes that don't result in the song coming to a halt go completely unnoticed by most of the audience. As a punter often the only confirmation that things haven't gone as planned on stage are the expressions on the musicians' faces. When I'm playing I've schooled myself to keep my reactions to others musical errors as invisible as possible. If some one has messed up really badly we might have a quick discussion about it at the next rehearsal, but never give anything away while you are playing. [/quote] He's not kidding chaps, I've seen him, he remains the epitome of cool rock bass god for the entire performance with a grimace of 'we are here to make your evening' plastered on his face. Damned impressive it is too.... As to the original question, by the end of the set I've usually lost count, actually by the end of the song I may have lost count, which may be the problem come to think of it Seriously, I learnt a long time a go that the punters - even when they are musicians themselves - don't notice anything short of a train wreck as long as you dont semaphore it at them. So why get hung up on it? Play your best, have a fantastic time (and look like it) and keep grooving [i]no matter what[/i].

127 votes so far! Wow, hope the mix competition gets a third that interest when the poll goes up in January

multiple eeny meeny miny mo? Cripes, you'll need to see a doctor if that persists wont you?

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1354226341' post='1883963'] Oh FFS!! I don't know I can't get the final whittling done [/quote] Coin toss...

I don't know enough about that CD player, plugged into that amp, into those speakers in that room to say why you and your friends prefer the vinyl so much. I don't doubt your belief that the vinyl playback gives you more satisfaction than the CD for one moment, I just cant tell you why, and if I were there with you I may not agree either I also don't know the history of the mastering of that album - some were mastered differently for vinyl and CD, Blood Sugar Sex Magic had a double disc release on vinyl that was supposed to have been very much mastered especially for that medium and sounds stunning. They don't do that all that often though since it does increase the album cost. Its certainly the case that the CD and amp may not get the best out of each other, I certainly believe that all this stuff is different and some gear works better with other gear to give a more enjoyable result. All I've been saying is that CD is definitely capable of exceeding the fidelity of vinyl in all meaningful ways, and that with a reasonable hifi in place I would look at the room if there is some dissatisfaction with the result as a whole. Clearly you are dissatisfied with the CD player you have, it may well just not play as nice as the turntable for you with that amp. What more can I say.... As for interconnects, you cannot go wrong with a decent bit off cable (say Klotz) and Neutriks plugs in each end, soldered well.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1354217339' post='1883822'] Another great album that has a crap bass mix is The Real Thing by FNM. Brilliant basslines that sound like they've been played by a skeleton in a biscuit tin. Always needs a bit of EQ to sound 1/2 decent, but I agree that nothing I do can make it sound good. They should get a decent producer to remaster it. [/quote] Yeah that is one horrid sounding bass, very much 'of its time' though, and back then unusual in that you could hear it at all, but then BG never had a bass sound to compare with Flea's, and yet I love his playing now more than ever, especially on that album... It woud take a remix to fix that one, not a remaster I'm afraid [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1354220136' post='1883872'] To be honest I'm not really arguing with people here. I spent a very awkward few hours with a very drunk, Glaswegian with a very, very strong accent, who was also a Led Zeppelin fan and an Audiophile. He spent those hours lecturing me on the superior music of Led Zeppelin and his stereo system. He told me the price of every component of his system and why he has a little weight that sits on his CDs to hold them in place while playing and a large proportion of that time included a talk about why he doesn't have an EQ and why no one else should either. And to top it off, on my way down the stairs into the, busy, Pub he lives above, my belt buckle came undone and my trousers fell down. Every single word of that is absolutely true. Audiophiles make my teeth itch and my balls draughty. [/quote] I thinkk we are on the same wavelength too really. That whole audiophile snake oil really boils my p*&@ as well! All the money wasted on gobbledeegook, I know a friend of a friend who designs audiophile speakers (size of a warddrobe each they are) and someone in that game (who has made himself very very rich I might add) has apparently advised him that charging [i]only [/i]8 grand a pair wont get him the 'right' clientelle (for which read the mega rich who like a bit of tinycockovercompensation in the hifi department who generally live in the middle east apparently), he should really consider charging at least four or five times as much to be taken 'seriously' Its madness!