51m0n

Would love to do a 'proper' mix of your version of Walking on The Moon Nigel, I've loved that song for a very very long time.....

[quote name='steviedee' timestamp='1351194095' post='1848611'] These look cool t amps [url="http://www.templeaudio.net/bantamgold.html"]http://www.templeaud...bantamgold.html[/url] [/quote] I have two Temple Audio Bantams, as long as you arent after massive volume they are really tasty little amps. Other than that, yet another +1 for NAD....

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1351243080' post='1849072'] Good luck with that! Typical of this is a comment made by our drummer following our first gig (which saw some people leaving with their hands over their ears). We suggested that he might have been a bit too loud and that maybe he could consider using his electronic kit so that we could turn him down to a level commensurate with the rest of the band... "I paid four grand for this kit [his Sonor acoustic kit] so I'm going to bloody well use it!" [/quote] Seen this a lot of times especially with rockier covers bands. If he cant play his kit in a manner that suits the venue with it set up as it is then something has to change. Either he has to learn to rock out without belting the bejesus out of the kit, or he has to modify the kit to project less when he does. How you tune a kit can dramatically change its volume. I'm not suggesting tune it wrong, but if you tune each drum to its lowest fundamental note on the batter side, and tune the resonant head lower than this (by up to a third) you can get the toms to do that cool bowww sound that drops in pitch, they wont ring as long and they wont be as loud. Dampen them a tad to stop excessive ringing. Same with the snare, but be vicious with dampening, since it can be super loud. You can get a meatier sound from a snare like this, with less top end snap that is what really uhrts - think more 70s rock than up to date - sounds great in a mix. The kick will probably be tuned a fifth or an octave above the lowest possible resonant frequency. When you drop it down it will sound immense, but actually be quieter - the drumer will certainly need to get the spring on his pedal turned right up to deal with the loss in bounce of the batter head, but he will soon get used to it, and the added depth to the kick will sound great, and not make any punters leave. Like this:- [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga8Q12mKYxI[/media] Effectively tune it for the studio more than live,. If that doesnt work, then open up all the drums and put a folded tea towel inside on the resonant head taped to the shell. Massive drop in volume, same tone (ok similar) , no need to dampen the outside. Move up to a towel if that doesnt work. The old super dry 60s & 70s funk snare sound was achieved often by putting a fat wallet on the batter head for dampening - it makes it quieter too! Normally its not the drummer alone though - if you dont put him through the PA and the pub is a reasonable size he usually wont be too loud - if he is then his cymbal bill is probably more than slightly impressive. The guitarists and the bass must be set strickly to the volume of the drums when they arent going through the PA. If you listen to the mix on most rock albums the drums totally dominate the mix (after the vocals). Obviously getting the stubborn guitarists to turn down to match an unamplified drummer can be really tough, but if you do the band will sound 'just like the record' you wil get huge compliments for mixing the band to the backline 'properly' and you will not drive ounters from the pub. The problem is that everyone has to learn to listen a bit differently, and be super careful in the placement of their amps to enable them to hear them when they are rather quieter. Using a couple of tradesmens hopup platforms to lift the amps up high enough can really help. Getting the amps back as far as you can behind and alongside the drummer, and pulling him forward a bit so he can hear them too is also useful. Or setting amps up as side fill type monitors and micing them ever so slightly in the FOH is another strategy that can help. If your drummer says no, then he may have to find another band if you want to keep playing in those venues....

Must be close now- just painting, fitting out, cables, air-con, power........ OK plenty still to do then

OK filters at 12 will knacker you completely! Fully expecting you to say that turning them off has sorted everything out for you no

Still love that track Nigel! Excellent job there the lot of you, give Kit a hug from me when you see her next matey...

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1351188884' post='1848512'] I always finish with them off, too! With a LMII and S12 (no tweeter), I've just never found any better sound in the mix than the EQ all at 12 o'clock, both filters fully off, gain set to match the output of the bass and volume set to match the output of the drummer! [/quote] Me too. My sa450 into an S12t I like to boost the low mids a smidge down around 250Hz, just a tad, (like 12:30 to 1:00pm) - dont need to, just like it more, and I dont go for mud at all! [quote name='Big Mick' timestamp='1351191414' post='1848540'] Simon, I'll try some of your suggestions at our jam tonight!!! I've even printed it out so the others (the ones who won't turn down on stage!!) can absorb your pearls of wisdom!! Cheers, Mick. [/quote] Best thing to do is take a recording device, set up like I suggested, play your set, have a break, let everyone do what they normally woudl, rerecord the set, normalise the volume of both sets and listen back to them a couple of days later with the whole band, do a blind test to see who prefers which mix.....

Haha! If you like

Sort the pickup height (too high and the strings can choke, too low and you woint get the volume), action of the bass (this can cause string choking oif its wrong too), the eq on the amp (not so much bass!), and have a close look at how you are playing (not that hard with right or left hand and the bass will 'sing' more). After al of that is sorted, has sir thought of using a wee bit of compression?????

You have to direct output from all the various sources through ASIO4ALL - which may not be possible.

Wow [b]massive[/b] overuse of the VLE and VPF in here. Those are hugely powerful filters, anything over about nine o'clock on them and you are in major danger of wrecking your tone in a mix, unless there is something very wrong with the rest of your kit (ie bass). The VLE is unique filter on a bass amp, it is a high shelf eq with a fixed -15 to -20dB cut (cant remember the exact detail, but its to all intents and purposes a low pass filter) when it is off (fully anticlockwise) it has a center frequency of 20KHz, and when its fully on (totally clockwise) its center frequency is just 250Hz! If you roll this all the way up you have nothing over the low mids coming through, you are in thud city central. Even at 12 O'clock you are getting into the realm of no treble, and seriously attenuated upper mids. Use with extreme caution! A tiny bit can help if you have no tweeter attenuator and you dont want things too bright (which was its original intention on the combos MB produced with no such tweeter control). There is no need to get carried away with it in a mix though. And yes I have played blues with a P type sound, and no you wont help yourself fit into such a mix live by cutting all the top end in that situation. The VPF is a mid scoop control, centered at 380 Hz (right in the mids) Fully anticlockwise there is 0dB attenuation at this frequency, fully clockwise you are talking 15 to 20dB of mid suck. It has a fairly wide Q, so it affects a lot of rfrequencies around it, yes out of a mix it can sound really nice, and with some basses it can sound nice if you use it in moderation (again above 9 O'clock you are getting into dangerous territory) for certain styles, but you must bear in mind that too much and you will lose your mids. The mids are the bit we hear best, that is where your pitch info is, that is what you will compete against the guitar and snare in the mix with. Cut that and you will soon become a rumble in the mix. So if you use these two controls together on full you are relagating your bass to not in the mix at all above about 250Hz. This is generally not a good thing.... As for EQ on the LMIII heads its a bit 'odd' IMO. The bass control is a shelving filter that has a frequency of 40Hz, which is [i]very[/i] low for bass, most rigs dont handle that very well, IMO it would have been better centered a little higher, maybe as high as 80Hz, but what is doen is done. The lo mid is a bell, centered at 360Hz, so if you boost this and apply VPF they virtually cancel each other out (slightly different curves, and almost the same frequency, its not exactly cancellation, but is close enough to be daft). This is a little high for my liking, but it will add some 'girth' nevertheless. Too much will be muddy though, if you are suffering from muddingess, a cut of a few dB here can help - or use the VPF, its the same diff. The high mid is a bell that is centered at 800Hz - right where plectrum click is, and growl, and string noise, and honk, depending on how much you push it, and how you play, and what the rest of your rig comprises of. The Hi is 10KHz, and that is [i]really[/i] high for bass, you better have a tweeter, and new roundwounds, and decent pickups (pref active) Thats all very tech isnt it. Try this:- 1. With the band, at 'war' volume - never ever try and set your eq for a gig, unless you are playing [i]at that volume in the mix[/i]!!!! Can not stress this enough, Fletcher Munsen curves and all sorts of acoustic oddities and differences prevail at those volumes, and what sounds good in a mix will more often than not totally fail soloed. Rule 1 Soloed doesnt matter one bit! A mix is just that, get the whole band to set up like this... Get the drummer playing good and loud. Then you set up as follows:- 2. Set everything flat - eq section at 12 noon, filter section full anticlockwise 3. Set your input gain so the input light doesnt quite light up (play hard, lift the gain until the blue light comes on, back it off till it stops) 4. Raise the main volume until you are as loud as the kick, nearly as loud as the snare. If you both play 4 on the floor the bass should add a note to the kick drum, and add oomph to the snare 5 Get the guitars in so they are just less than the snare, both together., They will complain that they cant hear themselves - get their cabs pointing at and closer to their heads 6 Listen for what is wrong with the bass, too little low end, too much mud, not enough girth, too much upper mid (unlikely against distorted guitar) too much top (even more unlikely) Try and listen for what there is too much of, rather than too little of. Then turn that part down and the total volume up - cuts are less detrimental to timbre than boosts, its just how our ears work. 7 If you are struggling to hear the guitars, get one to add mids, and both to roll off a little distortion (good luck, but it always works). They should fit together and be punchier when you do this. 8 The entire band should be far quieter than before - this i good for stage volumes, hearing each other, and finally hearing the singer, who should have no trouble getting over the rest of you now. 9 Get everyone to stop and listen to each individual instrument on its own, having re-eq'ed it to fit in the mix as a whole, some will sound laughably bad on their own, but that doesnt matter, its the mix as a whole that the punters listen too, not any individual instrument.

[quote name='peterjam' timestamp='1351152066' post='1847867'] Would you say the Zoom H1 or H2n would be better for a live recording? I'd like to leave it running and then chop the file into tracks afterwards - do I need to put 'marks' between the tracks? [/quote] A friend of mine has had issues with getting the gain low enough oin the H1 for very loud rehearsals. This was originally an issue on the H4n too, but Zoom released a firmware update to allow turning the pres down even more. I've not heard anyone say anything along those lines for the H2, but they may not be reaching the same face melting volumes You dont need to mark the tracks at all. Load them into any decent wav/mp3 editor and you will see where it gets noisy in the waveform without any problem!

If its like the Stereo Chorus crossover (and there is no reason to think it wont be, that bass chorus pedal is awfully similar to a lot of what the stereo chorus offers) then, for me, its not too good, since it doesnt just drop the effect out of the bottom octave, it also gives a quite hefty bass boost which I dont want. Be interested to see if this pedal does the same thing..... Do love the stereo chorus though, its lovely (apart from that one niggle, and the 18v thing).

A couple more worth checking out - not cheap though! [url="http://www.origineffects.com/Cali76.php"]Cali76[/url] [url="http://www.empresseffects.com/compressor.html"]Empress Effects Compressor[/url] The Cali76 with the transformer option is supposed to be very very like a real 1176 (not sure which version though, if that bothers anyone)....

The only thing I personally have reservations about re the MXR is that the ratio doesnt go below 4:1 and the attack is pretty fast, but thats because its designed around the same goals as an 1176, which also has those limits. However, an 1176 is usually used during mixing, after the bassists has well and truly left the building, and at that point you are only interested in the sonic result, whereas if its in your rig the way it makes the instrument feel to play is super important, and I personally like a lower ratio and lower threshold than that. The Cal76 is far closer in actual design and implentation than an 1176 though, and those details make a huge difference, I would love to try one of those (except I dont want the GAS!). But if it works for you and you dig it then its super groovy.

[quote name='EskimoBassist' timestamp='1350835848' post='1844026'] I know I spend a lot on effects pedals, but I mean that makes the Deep Impact look positively Behringer... [/quote] Compared to the cost of an actual 1176 its not bad at all though....

[quote name='kurosawa' timestamp='1350871340' post='1844544'] Good thread. Really brings home that nothing new has happened in bass equipment since the invention of the electric bass, except advances in speaker design, which make all else possible. Now that light weight, compactness, great sound, and enough efficiency to handle outdoor gigs are all available at the same time, it has to be a 2x15 to have it all in one box. Unless there's a repeal of the laws of physics, this is as good as it will ever get. Too bad we didn't have these cabs back in the 60s! [/quote] Not entirely sure why you think it has to be a 215.... You need to hear a BF Big Twin, which is a 2x12 plus 6inch mid range horn and a tweeter. Not your average 12 inch drivers in there at all btw. Given a grunty enough amp it will chuck out more useable volume than almost anything else I've heard. Having said that the new beta 112 cab Alex brought along to the SE Bass Bash was the nicest single 12 I've ever heard, and the only one I've heard that really carried in a full band set up well enough to be used in a rehearsal. Totally epic little thing. We did destroy it in the end, but only after someone dumped over 1Kw into it by mistake! That has one of the most 'secret sauce' 12 inch drivers I've ever heard of, very very clever design indeed.... As for nothing else has changed since the 50's, have you not tried any of the new lightweight amps at all? My rig chucks out 500w of clean power, it is massively loud. My amp weighs less than anything else in the rig except its ABS rack case. It utilises a switch mode ('digital') power supply, but other than that ia an all analogue head. Amazing leap forward in technology!

I agree. If you are distorting the amp with your bass alone, then more gain from a preamp wont do anything but add more distortion. Have you checked that the tube is properly seated? Grasping at straws there....

hmmmmm...

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1350644292' post='1841610'] I've never been able to distort my LH500 - even with all the active controls on my Status up full!! Are your leads OK? Batteries? This just doesn't make sense to us LH500 users... This thread might be helpful [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/72764-schroeder-21015-cab/"]http://basschat.co.u...eder-21015-cab/[/url] [/quote] +1 its a circuit designed to have immense headroom. I cant get it to distort from input level, you could have an issue with the tube perhaps??

Can you record your bass set up and post it at all? Without the guitars, just the bass in to the rig as you normally have it set up at 'war' volume? Do you have access to a dB meter so we can figure out how loud you're talking here?

Hmmm. Well how are you approaching 'cutting through'? Do you have a scooped tone? Because it doesnt matter how powerful your rig, if you arent putting frequencies that can work in the mix into that mix you will struggle to hear yourself. Something very odd going on here, what are the eq settings on the LH500, and the StingRay?

CD player through Plux's LH500 -> Berg Ht210 & HT115 rig has achieved similar results, mwahahahaha!

I play with a couple of pretty heavy hitting drummers, not stupidly loud though. I used to play in a band with 2 drummers, one a heavy hitter the other providing electronic percussion and fx noises through as much PA as he could get. Plpus a loud guitarist. That was LOUD. I find myself always ending u pwith the sa450 on half - occasionally just above - and with the ae410 that provides enough air movemnet and oomph to keep up. I wouldnt be in the same room for a secondwithout earplugs though.... IME a 112 cant possibly keep up with a loud drumer and 4x12 guitar cabs. Any claim to the contrary is just nonsense. However the BF S212t is most definitely loud enough to keep up with a very loud drummer, and a lot of guitar too, and with an LH500. One thing that is VERY important to note about the LH500 design in particular though, it has no input gain control, so if you have a low output active or passive bass you wil not give it enough input level to make the most of its power section. If you are gettign up over halfway on the LH500 then you should consider the passive input, or some form of active buffer preamp to give you more grunt on that amp's input. I have seen this with an Ibanez SR300 played by a player with a very light touch, the amp didnt get the input voltage it needed to run at its best, and so made the rig appear quiet, when in fact a different bass/player provided massive volume.

Alas, earwax