LukeFRC

I think there's a article on barefaceds website saying why they make 8ohm cabs onthe mobile so can't link to it...

RE: sounds changing…. Given that if the body was carved by hand or made by CNC - as long as it is within the same tolerances it will make little to no effect on sound (but may on how the thing feels) … I think there are two things here that we can say (reasonably and logically) could change the sound of an instrument over time…. Pickups - different pickup winding techniques, different magnets (?) and the magnetic deterioration… and the wood…. now I'm not enough of an expert to know if a bass played over time changes the wood as it resonates (in that case a pristine 60's fender that's hardly been played wouldn't have this effect) - I think it's more likely to be the effect of being under tension for x number of years myself rather than vibrations… but hey ho - I don't know enough to argue that (and haven't been on a magazine cover either, been in the fine art section of the Skinny before…) But I think it's true to say that the wood stocks that would have been available for building guitars in 1957 at the scale Fender were will not look much like the wood stocks available for building guitars now in the scale that Fender/Gibson/Cort et al knock them out. I doubt they are from as old or natural growth, or have been naturally dried for as long and so on. Warwick in the early 90's had the selling point of "the sound of wood" and proudly showed off wood stacks that they kept to dry for years. It's interesting that when they increased production, and the quality was perceived to have dropped - they also stopped showing off their wood piles. I think recently they've scaled back production and started talking about how long they keep the wood to dry before they use it. But I dunno - Molan, your wes steed bass is a blend of old bits and new wood is't it? how does that sound?

speakons are cooler, and blue and go click. Much better

[quote name='clashcityrocker' timestamp='1383634488' post='2266723'] Interesting thread. I've got a decent job paying up soon so (obviously) thought I should get a nice jazz. I am thinking jv. How do they compare to late 70s fenders? the 70s always seem to look great,but not sure in QC [/quote] I think both Dingus and I would agree on - play them and see which you like. the 70's one will have 70's pup spacing, the JV 60's pup spacing - which do you want. If I were thinking of buying a nice jazz…. I would get richardd's valenti which is probably still for sale, or one the the recent '75 ri from Fender's AVRI range….

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383598225' post='2266490'] Just to digress slightly for a moment , what if Squier made basses exactly like the JV Series ones again nowadays , priced around the £500 -£600 mark ? There is probably no real reason why the couldn't do it if they wanted to , and they would sell by the container load . [/quote] then nobody would buy the ones in the £1000-1700 range…

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1383592547' post='2266376'] I will try and take a picture of where it is and where I am etc, as I pretty much do this. The volume I've had it on doesn't have that much(if any) low end and I can barely hear it in the other room (wireless system) which why I am perplexed at them having heard it. [/quote] so if the amp was in the other room… would they be able to hear it….?

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383591278' post='2266350'] Was your JV one with the Fender logo as the main headstoch decal ? They are the sought-after ones. You are getting a little confused in all of this , Luke , by virtue of your own reasoning , which by and large , I agree with . You say the mistake I am making is assessing their worth as instruments on the basis of the original selling price , but you are making a far greater mistake in asessing the worth of these basses on "how good they might be". That is a very difficult quality to quantify . Therein lies the potential for hyperbole . The reputation these basses have garnered in some quarters has become somewhat eggagerated . The fact is , they were good , but when I look at the prices they are now selling for , they were never [i]that [/i]good , simple as that . The fact is people are paying a lot of money for a thirty year old budget bass , and I only hope they are doing so with their eyes open . The Roadworns have probably sold in fewer numbers than the JV Squiers , by virtue if the fact that the Squiers were cheaper and more accessible . Give it time and the Roadworn mojo will get to work in people's minds and they will become cult basses. And those early '80's Tokais you mention , I remember them well and they were brilliant . I seem to recall that the JV Squiers were actually built for Fender by exactly the same people on the same production line in the same factory in Japan . [/quote] JV Squire were made by Fuji Gen-Gakki so same factory as Greco not Tokai… I think we're more or less saying similar things but from the opposite direction.

turn down, cut the low end on the amp… it will sound crap but be good enough for practicing. Shut all the doors and windows and beware of volume creep…. Oh and what I do, if the cabs on the floor sit on the floor next to it right near your ear. Or I currently have it on our spare bed - decouples it from the floor, points at my ear and lots of soft stuff around to soak up too much BOOM! You might just be finding out that your barefaced is a lot better at kicking out sound than whatever your old cab was!

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1383585907' post='2266249'] From my recent experience i would say that a Pre+power setup beats a amp head. You have more of everything [/quote] I was looking at separate pre and power amps - but power amps are a whole new ball game that I don't majorly understand and aren't discussed much on here. WOuld I have to start visiting lots of PA forums to understand?

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1383426754' post='2264459'] Again, not helping my gas- I love my Roadworn, but the 1.75 neck is (was) a drawback. The fact the Squier has a 1.625 neck is even more attractive. I do hear what you're saying about the hype though, but my [b]dream[/b] bass is an American Vintage '57 in white blond, that's been worn-in and batted around a bit (so as it's a bit more comfortable, and I'm not afraid to put my own dings in it) with a 1.625" neck. So Custom Shop only? I have owned a fairly recent American Standard (2005 model) and it was a fantastic instrument, but I found it a touch heavy, the finish cold and thick, the neck very hard, and it felt more engineered than crafted. It just didn't have that organic, wooden feel that I've grown to love. [/quote] why not save up for a custom shop? seriously - I think JV's are great, but they aren't exactly the budget option - but if you have a dream bass in mind why not save up and go for that? (or see if someone other than fender would make you it, bravewood or someone) [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383427861' post='2264479'] I promise you that ten years after Fender discontinue them , the Roadworns will have a similar cult status. [/quote] Part of the value of JV stuff is how good they are as instruments- and partly because there is (at the early end) interest from Fender collectors. Now the JV I sold recently was one of the ones with the early cult status, and one of possibly only 300….. the rarity inflates the price (rightly or wrongly) how many roadworns are there in existence? [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1383562775' post='2265782'] This was my understanding, also. I think to dismiss the JVs as simply a cheap copy of the real thing would be a mistake. I have my old JV0 Precision (used to be Luke's) and it is without question the nicest Precision bass I have ever laid hands on. I can't say I have tried all the permutations, but have owned/had loan of/handled quite a few whilst looking for the 'right one'. MIJ, MIA, MIM - all sorts. [/quote] Corrected your post there.. [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383572456' post='2265957'] I'm not dismissing JV Squiers as a cheap copy as such , but they were relatively inexpensive when they were new and they are a copy , so there is an undeniable element of literal truth in that description . What stood about the Squiers was what nice basses they were for the money , especially by the standards of that time . They weren't the cheapest basses available in their day , but they were in a price range within the grasp of most enthusiastic beginners and were an excellent choice for both basssists and guitarists. Trust me , I was a young player at the time and I remember those days vividly . Their appeal was enhanced by just how bloody awful genuine Fenders were by 1982/83. No one wanted them , quite literally. According to my Historical Inflation Calculator , 150 quid in 1982/83 was the equivalent of £430 in todays money , so that gives you some idea of how they were pitched in the marketplace of the time they were current . In light of that then , in real terms these basses are selling for up to twice what they cost new . If someone has a nice Squier now and enjoys it for any reason then great , you pay your money and take your choice .The point I am making , however, is that if someone is looking to buy nowadays , it is only prudent to consider the current alternatives at the price point these Squiers are selling for , many of which can offer all the positive qualities of these old Squiers and a great deal more besides, in many cases. [/quote] I think it's important that any buyers take it on a case by case basis. Some of the prices for JV's I wouldn't pay, and others I would if I were in the market. Some of them are exceptional instruments. Some modern fender USA are exceptional, some modern MIM are amazing. Some are utter crap. Mind you I still have preferred every japanese fender necks to anything from the USA or mexico, maybe cos my hands are fairly small. Mind you Fullerton basses from the early 80's seem to have shot up to the £1.5-2k mark so maybe the JV's aren't that expensive now... I think the mistake you are making in your reasoning is making the selling price new a determiner as to how good they might or might not be. In 30 years time will we look back and say a 2013 warwick streamer is 5 times better than a fender roadworn? No we'll look back and retrospectively say that the roadworn were great and worth the money still. There are plenty of other basses we can look back at and say they were really great instruments,and if you look at the late 70's early 80's a lot of the instruments coming out as budget from Japan are still brilliant instruments. I picked up a 1977 Yamaha BB1200 to replace the JV, it's great, the BB300 I had for a while was nice too… early Ibanez models, Tokai were also really really nice instruments - and comparable to a lot of the new stuff being made today. Probably when they came out they were in the more affordable range compared to a genuine american fender. How does that effect how good they are as instruments now or their price? Mind you I also wouldn't agree that modern Fenders are that great, some are but a lot are mediocre, and the new 2013 AVRI seem a step back from the quality of the earlier AVRI range (which was v. good IMO) - but they are instruments that the price has shot up for over the last few years, as I said you take the JV quality on a case by case basis - but comparing them to the modern USA fenders… I don't think it's the USA fenders that are overpriced….

I didn't think most people buy basses based on what they think they will be worth in the future. I think they buy them to make music. But when at some point in the 80's the brand new shiny thing was good and they sold their old 60's bass for very little to afford active/graphite/pointyness I don't begrudge them looking at the price their old bass could have made now and sighing. The bigger crime was possibly the hair cut and clothes worn along with the pointy active graphite shiney bass- but that's a different thread...

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1383552222' post='2265633'] I recently finished a custom build, of a 5-string though, so hopefully I can be of some sort of use. I -thought- I had in mind what I wanted for my perfect custom bass, and it was fairly simple, but (depending on your budget) you might find yourself indulging quite a bit. There was a sound I was after though; something quite monstrous. The advantage of using Alpher Instruments as my builders was that they have custom pickup builders available and so they were made to spec. I haven't actually heard them yet, although the instrument is complete, but I've been assured that they're quite awesome. If you know what you want in terms of dimensions, then there's not much other to decide other than materials and electronics. One piece of advice that helped me immensely when deciding on who was going to built my custom bass; [b]make sure you get on with the person who's building it[/b]. I'd spoken to a couple of builders and then got in touch with Alpher Instruments. They offered me a lot more advice and genuinely seemed more interested and made me consider things I hadn't even thought of. [/quote] is your Alpher the one with the big humbuckers and narrow spacing.... it looks AMAZING I've had work done by Alpher on my bass, and played their first 3 basses - If I were going custom I would trust them to get on with, coms, and so on - good prices too. Their custom strings are very very good too.

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1383517467' post='2265471'] Glad you like it Luke,i always thought it was a cracking amp'. Isn't strange how Roland bass amps don't get much love but are infact superb,that is the best combo i have ever heard. [/quote] oddly enough it seemed to really really impress our keys player!

My initial thought reading through the post is - if your overwater gives you "your" tone - why not get them to do it? (except I guess with EMGs rather than their own pups)

so played it this morning…. big grins here - it's really good! Much more uncoloured tone than the other rig

So…. in a bit of a curveball I bought a new bass amp today…. I have a Tecamp puma 1000 and M210 cab. It's great and gives a really punchy sound. But for a while something had been making me think... Recently we've been practicing at a church using their PA and using no amp and just putting my bass and monitoring of the rest of the band through a HK D.A.R.T. Wedge - it was great, even in the mix I could hear myself (it was pointing straight up at me) and more than that… it sounds amazing. There's a wee lack of low end but… well I plugged my Jazz in… and it sounded like a jazz bass, I plugged my p bass in and it sounded like a P bass and I plugged my warwick in and it sounded… well good most the time. and bad sometimes. I've got an ACG pre in my warwick - capable of some of the most amazing tones ever made by an electric bass guitar - and also some… that don't work as well. Then playing back on my own rig… it didn't sound as good. So I started a thread on here to find out from clever folk why this wedge sounded great http://basschat.co.uk/topic/210554-pa-gear-as-bass-ampcab-one-of-the-most-amazing-bass-tones-ive-heard/ and I found out that the HK wedge was a great full range speaker with clever DSP flattening out the sound (that's my quick description of what DSP does…) So then I had a number of options…. 1) Explore using PA gear as a bass rig 2) get a more full range bass cab 3) get a bass cab with inbuilt power amp and DSP... so how did it go? Well 1) PA gear as bass rig… well isn't as easy - most PA gear is designed to split the signal to the tops and subs. So there's not an amazing amount of stuff out there that can cover the full range with a good low end…. 2) a more full range bass cab - a good option - the new big baby 2 from Barefaced looks really good and I could use my tecamp amp. Still an option... 3) Get a powered bass cab with DSP…. which would be a good option - and would love a Bergantino IP series (well the 112, not the 310 cos I'm not hulk) except they are as rare as rocking horse poo and theres not much else out there…. and then artisan stuck up his roland D-bass 210 combo up for sale… and it's a 210 combo with DSP…. 160w power to each driver and 80w to the tweeter… so 400w in total (but as we all know that watts don't mean much unless you take speaker efficiency into consideration) well it's a odd thing - good review and people who use it seem to rate them, but over on talkbass roland stuff is as about as popular as the plague…. Well I went put some notes in artisans hand and brought it home… and it's… it's pretty good - side to side with the tecamp rig the tone is way way more even - much less of a middy hump. The low end is impressive and the high end is good - not quite as bright and sparkly as the tecamp. It's even better when I used the effect return to send the preamp from my Puma to it and bypass the slightly cheesy sounding COSM preamp in the roland. It's good - it will get a play tomorrow at church.

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1383420222' post='2264367'] I was referring to was the first series, with poly finish, as I haven't tried the new nitro finished series. I do however own a Road Worn, which I would imagine is very similar to the new 50's lacquer. [/quote] but bashed about a bit…!

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1383419191' post='2264350'] Are you referring to the Classic '50s with flash coat lacquer finish & hardcase (which I think is a fantastic instrument withs thin finish and a real vintage vibe!) or the Classic '50s with no case and poly finish? [/quote] dunno both I think, played a few hung up in shops they didn't show me the cases! … think I've played both. IMO the AVRI '57ri P I tried is the only modern production Fender precision that has come close to my old JV in terms of build and sound. But then I think the old (up to this year) AVRI fender range was the best stuff fender have been putting out recently, precisions and jazzes; and some of the japanese stuff is nice too. All my own opinion obviously

Compared to the classic '50's …. not even comparable. Compared to the AV '57ri …. comparable - one feels and sounds very very modern though, one feels and sounds like the baselines on your old records How big are the necks? 43mm or so, an accurate vintage width (unlike the AV'57ri) How thick is the finish? My old one never chipped so not sure. No thicker than any other, not as thick as the classic '50s felt to me. Do they have rolled fingerboards? yes, and one of the nicest neck you'll play. Are they resonant? Yes and some, an amazing projecting acoustic tone when unplugged. Even unplugged mine somehow sounded like a P bass should do. Are they light? usually under alb

I would have to spend many thousands to get a bass as good as my 'wick But it is an early one with customised pups and preamps… and it cost me a very small amount…

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1382020879' post='2246771'] I have a Mesa Bass Buster - 1 x 15 combo- valve 200 watts. No kidding as loud as my old Hartke LH1000- but sounds lovely. Best amp I have had- Ive had loads. Bought it for £800 from this very forum. I don't use it at gigs though as it weighs as much as a car. [/quote] there's a 210 buster combo for sale near me, looks great to me and was tempted till I looked up the weight! Flip its heavy! How do you manage even thinking about gigging it?