Grangur

Strangely Warwicks seem to be advertised in the USA for far more than you'd ever expect to get for them in Europe. Which is unexpected as Fenders, MM and most of the other mass-produced stuff is cheaper in the USA.

[quote name='Norm' timestamp='1479313252' post='3175555'] Whatever money they go for, they'm still all fugly! IMHO o'course ;-) [/quote] Troll. If you ain't got nothing nice to say shut the F... up. In fact why enter the thread if you've not nothing constructive to add?

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1479297339' post='3175390'] Radius does make a difference to the action but its by a tiny tiny amount though. A vintage radius of 7.25 is a different feel also to a flat board. In general after a fret level, recrown and extensive multi stage polish a 7.25 radius board I can set up 2.4 - 1.9mm e-g in action at a relief of .007 - .015 in relief (personal relief preference is induvidual). And that would be absolutely no fret buzz even digging in. Where in general any flatter boards I can get a better action sub 2.2mm - 1.5mm e-g. With a slightly flatter neck relief on average. Again that's a no fret buzz even digging in setup. Obviosly some like a bit of buzz if digging in so setups can get lower. It seems to me from all the basses ive set up on average a flatter board allows anywhere from a 0.2 to 0.4mm improvement (lowering) in setup. So not exactly much but some will notice that. Also a 7.25 or even 9" radius might feel like its higher action when its not just because the tops of the e and g being lower than the a and d measured from the top. Not from the frets. [/quote] But do you believe that amount of difference would result in the bass being significantly harder to play and result in muscle ache?

As others have said, radius will make no difference to action as the action on each string should be adjusted separately; adjusted for the right height from the top of the fret. If you're getting strained hands and fingers, my guess is you're fretting the string down to the fingerboard all the time. Gary Willis has a good video on YouTube where he talks about the need to only use enough finger pressure to fret the string to change the note. I know GW is a fretless player BTW, but the situation is the same. You could have the situation made easier by levelling the fret tops lower, but it would be better if you can work on adjusting your muscle-memory. To work on the muscle memory, spend a few hours playing stuff really slowly with only using the minimum amount of pressure. Going slow allows the brain to learn the skill/technique faster.

As the MZ3 denotes the year, having that on the waterside and the rest laser printed wouldn't be a surprise.

[quote name='gazzatriumph' timestamp='1479287300' post='3175272'] Dont think its a proper German one though, cant see a serial number on head looks like a rockbass one to me but I could be wrong [/quote] Rockbasses normally have light colour wood for the neck. The serial numbers also normally go across the neck. I can't read the serial number of this one, but I can see it's vertical and the wood is darker. The grain also looks very much like my German Warwicks.

Welcome both. Jon (Bassassin) will be along later and your questions will be answered with confidence. Nice bass and bargain price I would imagine.

[quote name='Swaffle88' timestamp='1479163256' post='3174507'] Hey guys, can anyone recommend a shop in Scotland that sells warwicks? Or anywhere?! It seems quite difficult to come across these bad boys! [/quote] I was in Sofia, Bulgaria earlier in the year and went to a store there. This is Music Division.The manager is Boris Raikov. www.musicdivision.bg. Their retail prices are probably lower than UK prices as well.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1479236019' post='3174976'] Is that second photo a genuine Fender decal? [i][b]It's a picture I found on the web of a Fender Headstock - Can't put hand on heart and say it's genuine. I've no idea[/b][/i] If so the typeface for most of it looks like variations of Helvetica. The actual serial number is two different typefaces: a serif face for the MZ6 and a sans serif for the rest of the numbers. [i][b]Yes, I noticed the variations in that, but if you look at the picture below of mine, this too has variations in the serial number font. (Fender can't even get that straight-forward.[/b][/i] And apologies for the bluntness of my initial post in this thread. I was under the impression that the decal you were showing was one that you had bought from somewhere I was somewhat shocked that such a poor imitation was being passed off as an acceptable substitute. [i][b]Can't say I'm thrilled at having paid out for it. I don't mind your bluntness. I think we know each other well enough to know that good intentions were meant.[/b][/i] BTW what program are you using to create you artwork? [i][b]Gimp - it's a Freeware program. It's quite effective though.[/b][/i] [/quote] Thanks BRX for your thoughts. TBH I'm making enquiries with another supplier. There comes a time when my time is worth more than the cost of a crummy decal. BTW, BRX, you have a good eye for fonts. I'm impressed and appreciate the input.

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1479223084' post='3174858'] Buy a Spector - the original design...I'm sure if you look you be able to find a thread on how Warwick stole the design and didn't pay compensation following the court case. [/quote] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar"]https://en.wikipedia...iki/Bass_guitar[/url] The first bass was about in the 1930s - 20 years before Fender created their first. Why don't you make that accusation everytime Fender gets mentioned? After all Fender nicked the design too. All they did was adapt it for mass production. What do you drive? Another stolen design no doubt. Do you complain about that? Some of us consider the Warwick Streamer design to be more refined. The Spector shape is more brutal; this could be why Spector get upset that Streamers are more prolific.

Not perfect, but getting closer TBH when you look closer, the edges of the black round the "Fender" aren't exactly great. I'm getting it better, but it'll take time. Here's a good one, I guess

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1479222440' post='3174851'] No sitting on the fence with his opinion, was there mate? [/quote] No, you're not wrong there. I can see this becoming a case of "if I'd known then what I know now... I'd never have kicked this hornets' nest". All that aside. I actually value BRX's honesty and keen observation. What is frustrating is the pathetic font options I have to chose from to do the artwork.

Yes, BRX, many thanks for the helpful observations. What you're seeing, apart from the serial number is the decal I bought. It's useful for the "Fender" artwork. I'm now working on it. Regrettably, I'm no graphics artist though, so I don't have a massive number of fonts to choose from. With any luck I will, hopefully come up with something that looks more like the real thing. The grey/silver in the "Fender" is too dark as well. Maybe I'll have something better to show you later.

I would imagine this problem that Fender have tried to get round here is really one of marketing. The Fender headstock was designed in a shape that on a bass supports 4 tuners. Fashion then changes and proves that Leo didn't "get it totally right" and Fender are faced with the dilemma of should they abandon their iconic headstock shape or make a compromise?

If anyone is wondering about my scathing comments about Fender and their cheap production, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVmFlzksMCE I notice he doesn't talk about bubinga, swamp ash, wenge.. so this is aimed at the mass production market. Don't get it wrong, it has it's place.

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1479196503' post='3174582'] I've got one in a similar state and I'm now inspired, thank you Grangur. How, what did you use to scrape the damaged one off with? Where did you get the replacement decal, particularly with serial number? Cheers in advance, Karl. [/quote] I scraped the old one off with a Stanley knife blade. Take it out of the holder and holding the blade almost upright and flat on the wood, scrape the blade down the grain and it'll cleanly take off the waterslide and any lacquer. I bought a decal in a set of 4 from a guy in Spain. I then scanned the image and edited it to make the serial number the correct one for my own bass. The originals were all for a bass from 2009-10. This one is from 2003-4. So I wanted to keep it true to the bass. What I have found is the original was definitely silver. The decals you buy, and my own, look silver/grey on the print. When you actually apply the decal it looks grey/gold. This is because the colour of the wood is coming through. What I'm planning to do on mine is using a silver pen to colour in the silver part and make it look more like the original. If anyone wants one like mine, PM me and I'll can make these for anyone. I also have a fair stock of watersilde paper, so I'll do them at a price to cover costs.

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1479194874' post='3174574'] I can't actually understand why Fender don't/didn't clearcoat over the headstock after the transfer has been applied. [/quote] Yes. This is what makes me laugh when folk talk about Fender as being a "quality manufacturer". They aren't. What they did do, in the beginning, was bring instruments into a mass-production environment and make cheap instruments available to the masses. They are still successful in that. This is just the same; it's done on the cheap. If Fender wasn't all about "cheap" then the quality would be high enough that folk wouldn't want to upgrade them. Thankfully the construction method makes them easily upgraded.

What surprised me in a way was that the waterslide they use covers the whole of the headstock. But from a production POV it makes sense I guess.

[quote name='josie' timestamp='1479163343' post='3174510'] There's a general point here - don't want to hijack the thread, is it worth starting a new one? - when the "factories" adapt a model - 4 to 5, or fretted to fretless - how much thought do they really put into it? For example, all the Fender Jazz 5 models I've seen have four tuning pegs on top of the headstock and one underneath, which to makes it look to me like an afterthought. The Jazz Plus 5 has a longer headstock with all five on top - lovely, looks like it's meant to be. [/quote] Hijack away! Let's talk fretless

I've got a Streamer with a "reverse" P. I like it. I was tempted to reverse a cheap P copy I had. I played both again and again to check out the difference. I was thinking of moving the G-D split forward on mine. I came to the conclusion that there's such a small difference it's really not worth the hassle. If you want less treble on the top end, tweak the EQ; job done.

[quote name='josie' timestamp='1479161610' post='3174488'] I know a lot of peeps here do de-fret basses, but (serious question, I'm still new to all this!) wouldn't it be better to start with a purpose-built fretless? As I understand it the fretboard on a fretless needs to have a harder surface than on a fretted bass, because it has to stand up to more abrasion from contact with vibrating strings. [/quote] Yes, you're right. It is better to have a factory made one. When you convert a fretted bass to fretless, what you ideally need to do is raise the fingerboard to the height of the top of the frets. So, as this is impossible, you don't simply remove the frets, but you also need to lower the Nut, Bridge and Pickups. Also, you need to be happy that the old fret lines can be seen when playing. This is because the old fret-marker dots are in the centre of the fret spacings. On a factory fretless, the dots are in the line positions of the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 12th etc. Wear to the FB can be reduced by having flat-wound strings, but otherwise you need to protect the fingerboard. Some use epoxy to protect the board, but the ideal is to have the fingerboard replaced with a new ebony one. Ebony feels a lot better. The 4-string fretless I have is a factory made one. The added complication in de-fretting a Warwick, is the neck is fretted with the frets not going through the sides of the fingerboard. So when you take out the frets and put the veneer in the slot, you also need to cut through the sides if you're wanting the fret-lines to show on the sides. I think I've already decided this baby is staying fretted.

The fonts are those used in the decal as I bought it. The only one I've done is the serial number. I guess the original one is slightly serifed. Mine is probably too clean. Maybe "Serial Number" is too big too

Hi all, This question is following on from another, where a new guy has asked if a "Fender" is genuine or not. I have a nice MIM p bass. It plays well and it's probably a keeper. The only real "problem" is when I got it the headstock looked like this: I'm a bit of a perfectionist and this will not do. So to make it "right" I've done what might be the unthinkable and scraped off the decal and made another: So, as you can see, the serial number is the same. If I work on it well and make sure to smooth the edges, I'm hoping I'll get away with it. Have I done the right thing?

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1479117155' post='3173964'] I have a fretless 5, TBH I usually avoid the low B for any actual fretless style playing as I find it doesnt really work too well, I only got a 5 because I tend to practice most of the time with the fretless and dont want to be swapping between 4 and 5. [/quote] [quote name='bassbora' timestamp='1479116584' post='3173961'] Why not see if you can buy a similar Corvette but just fretless? I did a swap on here with someone who took my FNA Jazzman (Corvette body) and had that defretted so he would have both fretless and fretted version of the same bass. I play a Thumb fretted and fretless and I find it very helpful to have the two. The muscle memory is so easy and I like to think because my hands are so used to the same body and neck shape. [/quote] All gooD, useful points. I already have a Streamer fretted and fretless. Both are 4s. I'm wanting to move to the 5 because I sight read a lot and someone here was saying that 5s are useful if you read. TBH GeoffByrne has been in touch offering a Yamaha fretless 5 for a fair price. So I might well give that a go. The Corvette is a great bass. I've only recently refretted it. It has a bubinga body, plus being a 5, so it's no light weight. The other 5er I have is a Thumb. If that were a Corvette as well, then having the pair would be attractive. The problem with defretting, as I see it is its easy enough to pull the frets and fill the slots. But going back to put frets back would never be easy.

Thanks guys. It's actually quite good if I think before posting. I did that in a rush before going to bed. Gary Willis is well known for his 5 fretless. I once had one of those. Never really got on the the fretboard. I've also had an Esp LTD fretless: strings too close. I think what I'm really thinking about is, "am I doing the right thing, pulling the frets out of a somewhat expensive bass"? The answer to this is really totally subjective. If I'm sure it's what I want and I'll like it when it's done, then do it.