Bilbo

[size=6][i]Run while you still can!!!!!! [size=6][/size][/i][/size]

I spent a few hours on it Monday and Tuesday. UInfortunately, it is a load of old b******ks so I have abandoned it and am having a rethink.

[quote name='timhiggins' timestamp='1430828442' post='2764921'] Thanks for the wisdom all its very welcome .. so am i to assume that when Paul Chambers first played/recorded' Giant steps 'he could look at the chart and improvise a walking line at that tempo ? if so i may stick to playing reggae as i'm not sure i will ever get there [/quote] Chambers did have sight of the Giant Steps chart in advance of the sessions and the version that was released was not take one of the first time PC played it. He had recorded it before six weeks earlier on a session that was not released until recently as part of a 'complete sessions' package. Tommy Flanagan played piano on the released session and he had seen the part in advance but had no idea that it would be as fast as it was (the sessions are discussed from p. 190 of Mr. P.C. The life and music of Paul Chambers). Cedar Walton played paino on the earlier version but neither he nor PC solo on it so the expectation that they get through it would not have been that unreasonable. I think Walton admitted that he struggled with it. It is important to acknowledge that some of the performances we hear on the great Jazz recordings can genuinely be take one but others can just as easily be take 26 or whatever. The 'magic' is borne of hard graft and solid practice not because these guys are 'Jazz ninjas'.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1430810727' post='2764661'] I'm no expert and if it sounds good i'd just go for it [/quote] Yes but 'it sounds good' needs to be informed and the less time you spend with the concept of a walking line, the lower the expectations for it sounding 'good'. I suspect the musicians, producers and engineers who were there when Van Morrison recorded 'Moondance' would have thought that the bass line 'sounded good'. It didn't'; it sucked.

The answer to your question in yes and no (it would be, wouldn't it? ) There is an assumption that the content of a walking bass line is defined by the diatonic context and that, if the chords are diatonically related (i.e. in the same key), then any note in that key will work. Whilst this is techincally correct, it totally of misses the point of what a walking bass line is for and why the note choices matter. If, say, you line is in C major, the theory suggests that you can play a CDEFGA or B and it will be 'correct'. This is basically true but fails to recognise some pretty major issues. You can, in fact, play C C# D D# E F (yes, even F) F# G G# A A# or B depending on what effect you are trying to create. If, for instance, you play a G, it creates a massive amount of tension that you may or may not want in the context in which you are playing. A walking line creates forward motion in a performance and that motion ordinarily references chord changes, be they diatonic of not, so your lines need to reference some element of forward momentum as they move from chord to chord, Playing random diatonic notes will not create this momentum so, whilst the notes may not be 'wrong', the line will suck. A great example of this is the bass playing on 'Moondance' (which is why I hate it). It has no internal logic and doesn't contribute to the music (it detracts from it, if anything). There are also 100 other things to think about when determining your note choices; tempo and dynamics are obvious ones but you need to think in some way about the various approaches to generating tension and release, of supporting the soloist, of responding to ideas being put forward by the other instrumentalists etc. Random notes in the 'roght' key will achieve onoe of this. Ask yourself not whether the note is 'correct' but what it is there for and what it is seeking to contribute. Walking bass lines are the one aspect of Jazz bass playing that takes a minute to learn (what could be easier than straight quarter-notes) and a lifetime to master.

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1430413482' post='2761217'] Bilbo's not in a tribute band, but I'm fairly sure he wants to be... [/quote] I am facing redundancy imminently and may need to be. 'What a marvellous night for a .........'

There are many musicians that speak in these terms and who are absolute masters; John Coltrane, John McLaughlin, John Pattitucci, Jon Anderson are a few that come immediately to mind but there are many many more. I personally think that the issue is hugely profound and what drives people to excellence is a very personal thing. Embracing something like 'a higher power' can be a real turn off for some and a real driver for others. I think the journey to nirvana has many routes but the most diffcult thing about finding your own path lies in the realisation that you are already on it.

Saddos!!

I didn't look at this thread for two days and my vote tally has doubled!!! I'd like to thank my agent, my production team but most of all, my wife.

9 members voted, 25 votes cast. Someone can't count

Incompatibilidade De Genios by Joao Bosco https://youtu.be/Tk_CghlLAr4

Like A Lover by Dori Caymmi https://youtu.be/glh0A5WgqEU?list=PLvqzvV4PVkHs_bnatX6gO2MdyYimlnKj7 Danca Da Solidao by Marissa Monte https://youtu.be/Xzxgjhi2eNU

Steve Swallow at 2.53 but it helps to listen to it all to all of it for context. A beautiful bass solo without the histrionics. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UluZphPIyIY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=UluZphPIyIY[/url]

Can I vote for Lowdown three times? Wonderfully put together as always but I think you have surpassed yourself this time, Garry..

Bass solos at clinics are about gear and chops not about music. Some of the nicest bass solos I have ever heard are actually quite easy to play and require no significant chops (listen to Steve Swallow's solo on John SCofield's version of 'Alfie' on their EnRoute cd). Bass guitars are particularly lousy at making nice music in isolation. They just don't make a particulary musical noise, especially when playing chords. Not a total non-starter but a lot of ways of screwing it up

I don't 'know' the answer but I woudl approach it with the view that the purpose of the key signature is to reduce the need for cluttering up the stave with accidentals so, using the principle of enabling reading as opposed to being 'correct', if you are in Em as you say, then a key signature of C would mean the only accidentals would be the G#. I would therefore use C sa the key signature. Jazz musicians often transcribe solos with a C signature because the nature of the lines means that every bar has as many accidentals as notes in the key signature so it becomes all but academic. It always surprises me how rarely I see a key signature on a chart.

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1429808644' post='2755221'] I'm confused (which isn't difficult for me really) but having looked at some of the people you've played with in your initial post, you must be good at playing DB? [/quote] I pay them. They HAVE to play with me Seriously, my budget pays for one of these guys and two sidemen. I run the events and do it for next to nothing (sometimes, if it is a trio, I do ok). None of them would book me if they had a choice. I can hold my own and it's mostly ok (train wrecks are few) but I am more often than not the weakest link by a country mile.

I think about soloing a lot, not because I am egotistical but because I am not very good at playing the double bass!! As an electric player, I can play bebop lines and some other very interesting things when soloing, some quite creative and rarely used with electric bass. When I play double bass (which is almost always now), I cannot execute complex, fast runs in thumb position and have had to find a way to get [i]deeper[/i] into the bass. Occasionally, if the thing feels right, I jsut do what is called a 'walking solo' in which I play some really radical bass lines that are basically straight quarter-notes. What works well is doing that but instead of sticking in extra grace notes, I just leave notes out i.e. straight quarter note walking lines with gaps in. What can happen then is that the 'cliche' lines can become really interesting because you have effectively moved things one notch to the left. Other things I try include the occasional use of, say, the G on the D string followed by the G on the G string, using the subtle difference in intonation to create a interesting tension. In short, it's all Charlie Haden and Jimmy Garrison instead of NHOP and Paul Chambers. I am all rhythm and gaps now, not lightening speed!! That slowing down has allowed me to find depth in my soloing. I did a recent trio gig with a pianist and guitarist which opened my eyes to the potential of working with a more intimate ensemble - think Jimmy Guiffre's Trios. I trio gig with Phil Robson and Christine Tobin was another eye opener. Lots of space without a loss in impetus. It always has the potential to be better (a LOT better ) but I like the direction of travel at the moment. It feels like something is happening.

I have been doing these great gigs for a couple of years now with some of the UK's top Jazzers; John Etheridge, Tony Kofi, Jim Mullen, Art Themen, Steve Waterman, Jason Robello, Ivo Neame, Clark Tracey - the list is long and exciting. When I do these gigs, I am regularly offered the opportunity to solo; no surprsies there, it's a Jazz gig after all. I recorded a lot of these gigs in the early days for reference purposes (I stopped doing so a long time ago as it was becoming unhelpful) and several of them are on my ipod so they pop up occasionally What is troubling me is that, when everyone else is soloing, there is a massive bed of harmony and rhythm on which they can draw and against which the gaps in their lines can sit. When the bass solos, more often tthan not, this whole tapestry disappears and you are left with a hi-hat and air. Obviously, sometimes there are subtle chords and rhythms and, In some ways, it is lovely to have the space but, when I listen back to the performances, I wish other musicians wouldn't drop like a stone every time a bass solo comes by!! I remember one gig 1000 years ago (in Cardiff) where I was playing in a piano trio and, when the bass solo came along, for reasons which were not altogether clear at the time, it took off and went up a notch instead of the whole backdrop disappearing. I know the double bass doesn't carry that well but it still feels like I have been abandoned!! Any thought?

It's Paul Chambers' 80th birthday today. It is also the birthday of Charles Mingus and Barry Guy!!

It's all here in a logical order. For free.. http://basschat.co.uk/topic/74284-the-majors-bass-boot-camp-session-index-1-36/

A lot of ghost notes are just the notes between the notes you actually play. A lot of it comes perfectly naturally.

Absolutely. I am a staunch ad ocate for reading music but there is definitely a difference in reading slowly as a learning thing and learning to sight read cold. The former is a must, in my view, the latter an ideal that is achieved over years and need to be maintained like any form of skill. I read once of a literate woman who went blind and recovered her sight twenty years later. UPon being able to see again, she had to learn to read from scratch because she had 'forgotten' how to do it.

http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=yYOQ01zPnt8

They say you taste food with your eyes, why not hear sounds the same way? The maple LOOKS brighter so the ears perceive it as brighter. NB I don't know sh*t.