Bilbo

Yes it was awkward intonation wise. I said to myself whilst playing that it woudl be easier if I got to start each phrase at least twice!! There were a couple of moments when I was doubling some other part (a vocal here, a violin part there) and then it was much easier but when you were surrounded by a wash of strings, the intonation was a little less sure-footed. The main deal breaker was a tune called 'One Song'. It is available on Spotify. Have a listen to the line Cottle is playing. It was called in too fast and, whilst I can play the part, getting it tight with the other ensemble players proved really difficult (the percussionists weren't what you call 'groovin'' )

I had an interesting learning experience this weekend. I did a ‘classical’ gig for the first time in my life (let’s avoid the debate about what is and is not ‘classical). I was called for a gig doing the fretless bass parts for a local performance of Karl Jenkins’ ‘The Peacemakers’ at The Apex Theatre in Bury St Edmunds. The ensemble was 16 pieces (violins, violas, cellos, double bass (not me), organ, flute, 3x percussionist) and a 60-piece chorus. The chorus were pretty good from where I was sat (right in front of them in the middle!!) and it was great to sit in amongst the ‘orchestra’ and hear the whole thing from a perspective from which I had never heard it before. I had never heard a choral work in real life and it was an amazing experience. The piece has 16 different movements (that may be the wrong word) and I think I nailed 13 of them but the three I got wrong have been bugging me. One was a knuckle cruncher which comprised an unreadable chart with occasional bars of 16th notes that changed clef back on forth half way through and required specific fingerings that meant there was (arguably) only one way to execute it, a fingering that was un-natural (it was Laurence Cottle on the recording). To address the problem, I ‘learned’ the part in advance. Trouble was, after a single ropey rehearsal of the piece that afternoon, on the gig the conductor counted it about 30% faster than both the rehearsal and the recording so it kind of fell apart from bar one. The wreck that followed will haunt me for the rest of my life but, at the end of the day, nobody died. The other two I was unhappy with were for a reason that had never occurred to me until I was actually there doing it. I have never had any training with a classical conductor. I have done shows where a conductor is present but, given the nature of the role of the bass in most show charts, it is all pretty conventional stuff: come in on beat one, occasional doubling etc. With this classical stuff, you have to be able to count 86 bars of silence and, because, with these two movements, the bass part was essentially a melodic one, play these three notes in what was, from where I was standing, the middle of nowhere. The conductor thinks he is helping me by waving at me at what is clearly the appropriate time but, to be blunt, I have no perspective on his arm movements and, despite his semaphore, have not got the remotest idea where these three notes are supposed to be played. This is where my learning point came (and I go all hot and sweaty thinking about it). I guessed and got it wrong . In a nutshell, I learned that ‘If you don’t know where that beautiful three note part should be played, DON’T PLAY IT!!’ Better missed than played in the wrong place. To round the night of perfectly, however, I had the surreal experience of bumping into Terry Waite in the corridors backstage. He was lost and asked if I could point him to the soloists dressing room. I said I was lost too! He laughed and said ‘why do they make these places so confusing?’ to which I replied ‘Have you see the movie ‘Spinal Tap’. He said ‘No’.

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1397142943' post='2421122'] I sound like me on just about everything I play.... [/quote] 100%

At the risk of sounding controversial (no, not you, Rob!), I think a lot of people think they can buy themselves better. If they don't like what is happening on one piece of kit, the assumption is that the solution is different kit rather than more practising. I know a guy who used to buy and sell guitars at an inordinate rate and spent the rest of his time adjusting actions, changing strings etc etc. The fundamental fact was that he was a mediocre guitarist who, had he sepodn more time practising instead of fiddling about on the periphery of guitar playing, could have been a lot better. Like Jake, my Wal (my only real working bass since then (a couple of other basses had less than a handful of outings in that time)) was bought in 1986, my double bass is now around 4 years old and isn't going anywhere soon. They both sound like basses to me and sound great. Even my amps last an age. I have had 7 since I started playing in 1980 and one of them was only replaced because it was nicked. I think there is too much nonsense attached to the gear and not enough emphasis on the music.

FFS, guys. There are only 12 of them (24 if you include relative minors). Can you remember an 11 digit telephone number? Of course you can (your own, if nothing else). The lyrics to Bohemian rhapsody contains 390 words. How many of us know them all? I bet most of us do. You just have to make learning them a priority for a short time (a day or two, a week at the most).

Best way to learn where the notes are is to learn to read music. Then you HAVE to know where the notes are to actually PLAY the f*****s

'April' off Brand X's Product album (John Giblin). Giblin also plays some nice fretless on Chris De Burgh's 'The Getaway' album.

The truth is that, if you are playing pop/rock/funk etc, you are almost never going to come across anything that needs and intimate knowledge of the altered dominant scale and its associated chords (there are a tiny number of exceptions but they are rare). Deal with the Major, Minor and Diminished scales and all their modes and you will pretty much have it (pentatonics are only major and minor scales with notes left out). THat is three scales (one of which only has two variants x 12 notes = 26 scales to learn. It's a days work.

Romantic Warrior and Musicmagic were important early sources for transcribing for me. I did loads of transcriptions of each (only notes as I recall, not chords). I remember thrashing through the charts on my Aria SB700 so that dates it to pre-1986. A drummer friend turned me onto RTF (I already know of Al DiMeola and SC because of Tommy Vance (I remember Silly Putty being used as a link) but had not got as far as RTF yet) and I was amazed at this bass player. As I moved on, I lost interest in him as I found other players I preferred (Jaco, Jeff Berlin, Jimmy Johnson and Percy Jones mainly) but he was certainly there at the start of my relationship with Jazz and Jazz related music. I also have The Toys Of Men and there are some duff tracks on there but some of it is really great.

I struggle to see how any of it would make any sense without knowing how it all fits together. TO be blunt, a lack of knowledge of scales usually means that a massive amount of music is unavailable to you and that just seems a shame. I find that, as an improvising musician, the more I learn, the more I hear and the more I recognise, the more I can respond to intelligently. Charts make more sense, improvising becomes more creative and I also enjoy listening to music more. Bludnering around with pentatonics got very tedious for me very quickly although there are those who can still make some beautiful music with those alone. But the edge that I look for in players is rarely found in the 'intuiitive' player and more often in the 'informed'. The irony is, the basics are not that hard to learn (the interestingly titled Neopolitan, Balearic, Constipated etc scales are VERY uncommon and are more often than not basic scales with notes added or left out so, if you knwo the basics, the rest is easily picked up in real time). Major, Minor, Dominant, Diminished, Augmented and Blues scales is about all you need. It's a week's work at most.

Is it just me?

Some of Clarke's best early work was with other people; Chick Corea's Return To Forever are the obvious example but there were others. I find Clarke to be like Jeff Berlin|: monster players that are great sidemen but, when left to their own devices are less satisfying. I think they are also both guilty of chasing commercial success instead of artistic success and that often manifests itself with poor product (there was a LOT of this thing going on in Jazz in the 1970s and 1980s) Clarke's stuff on Return To Forever and Light As A Feather is great (mostly double bass, not electric).

YouTube - Virtual Reality for musicians

I keep hearing people (not necessarily on here) saying that, because of the internet and all the new marketing methods associated with it, there is 'no longer any need to gig'. Now, I understand the argument in logistical terms and as a a legitimate business approach (blah, blah) but WTF??!! How can you not gig? That's the bit I like!! Without that we are all bedroom boys and girls, even the millionaires I couldn't 'not gig'. I just couldn't.

JUst got hold of a great cd by Chris Speed called Really OK. It is a sax/bass/drums trio featuring a bass player who is new to me called Chris Tordini. Monster sound, great ideas. Makes me want to get my bass out and play (always a good sign). Check it out if you get the chance.

So don't do funk. That is not the only way to inter pret the image (I am not)

Great point, grahamD. I use his r/h muting techniques a lot nowadays so his has influence me but I just don't seem to want to listen to his records. Although I do love his song 'It's Only Music' off 'Bent'

The 'too tall' argument was used for me 20 years ago when I applied for a gig with a name band. In short (see what I did there?), if the lead singer is a short-arse with a small ego, you are going to make him look tiny, a particular problem in genres like HM where the macho image is sometimes part of the deal. Interestingly, on the occasions when I meet celbrity musicians, I am regularly surprised at how short they are in real life. I guess this is more common than we think. For the record, I know of another musician (a drummer) who 'auditioned' for a Kylie video. The 'audition' was him being filmed from lots of different angles (he didn't actually have to play the drums). I guess it is easy to forget that the priorities have changed.

Got half and hour on it tonight and this is where I got to. Not finished and very clunky but I wanted to show willing as much as anything. This is as far as I got and have abandoned it as time was up and, frankly, I know how much work is needed to get it up to par and I don't want to spend the time on it but thought I would post this anyway. I was thinking waltz of the dead kind of thing. https://soundcloud.com/robert-palmer-1/waltz-at-the-hanging-tree

I loved the first two LPs, Spears and Dr Hee but, after that, I lost interest (I have owned several more lps/cds but let them go). I find Willis's playing a bit bland and predictable, despite his obvious virtuosity. I think he is one of those guys that needs to be produced by great writers etc. Like Jeff Berlin, all that technique but not much emotional content. There is a cd with Willis and Allan Holdsworth playing standards that says it all. It just doesn't work. He is a monster player, though.

Tis what it is. But, once you have nailed it, you have nailed it for life. Time massively well spent.

https://soundcloud.com/robert-palmer-1/estate When the sax player counted the rhythm section in for this bossa, he was delighted with what he had to play over and you can here him exclaim in delight. Just beautiful.

It does take time. The skill is hard won but hugely valuable.

Voted. Struggling to get ot composing at the moment. Very time consuming when you haven't got time. I started something and got it off the ground but just haven't got back to it in time. Bugg**y b*ll***cks [size=4] [/size]

Sax bass drums trio with Dave O'Higgins on tenor. I was in heaven. I played one of my best double bass gigs ever, really creative and interesting stuff (and more than a little wrong on occasion!!). Still, you can't make an omlette.....