Bilbo

Of course, its all bullocks, Skank. Because the debate we are having has no purpose other than filling up basschat time. I still won't go see a tribute band and you still won't give a s*** about that fact I have tickets to see Uli Jon Roth this Sunday in a pub in Ipswich. Go me!

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1346772286' post='1792993'] Depends which weddings and which churches you've been to. My experience to both has been 98% the other way. (I'm in the 2% btw as I can neither sing nor dance.) [/quote] Welsh Methodist in the 1970s and the annual family wedding since then. 'Mmmmm nnn ggggth emmmm ggu mmmunnnner'

My wife and I told the band at my wedding, 'don't play anything they can dance to'. And they didn't. And when people came up and asked 'can you play something we can dance to?', they said 'No'. I had a great time I find dancing at weddings to be a bit like singing in church; 98% of the people there doin't want to do it and only do it because they are forced to by threats or coercion.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1346770587' post='1792965'] Quick point here but how many originals bands play weddings and functions [/quote] Interesting point. How many people go to weddings to see a band they want to see/hear? How many can leave early without offending the bride/groom? How many sit at the back going 'FFS, not Mustang Sally AGAIN'!!'

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1346768327' post='1792921'] ......... it doesn't half seem to matter to you ! [/quote] I don't exactly lie awake worrying about it, Doc... Every good thing I have ever gained in life has been a consequence of my looking at experience A (a book, a film, a piece of music, a restaurant) and then, through reading, experience, discussion etc, moving on to experience B and C and D and so on. Over my nearly 50 years, people have said to me 'have you heard Jaco/Dave Holland/Gary Karr?'? Did you see that movie? Have you read 'Watchmen/I Robot/The LIfe Of Pi/The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime'? and, by listening to these suggestions, I have enjoyed a great deal of new and interesting experiences and developed all sorts of insights, some of greater value than others. The buzz is in the journey not the destination. When I challenge people about their approach to it all, I don't actually [i]care[/i] whether they accept my suggestions/perspectives (although many here do as they have told me so). When I say 'tribute bands are blah, blah, blah', anyone reading it is entirely free to ignore my comments as most do. I'd like to think that some people would think about them before they dismiss them and maybe others will agree. What matters is the debate not the outcome. I am not right or wrong, I just am. If anyone here goes to see a Pink Floyd tribute band tonight, I can't see them having their night ruined by a nagging voice in the back of their head saying 'I want to like this but can't because Bilbo said...'. If someone is sitting there before going out thinking 'Pink Floyd tribute again or band I've never seen before?' my comments may make a difference and 'The Pink Floyd Perspective' can sue me for loss of earnings. I don't care what people watch/listen to, its their choice. And I certainly don't care if people like what I like. I just like the idea that people think about what they are consuming and don't just accept what they are given.

Eevrything is acceptable if people are being entertained. Now the question is: am I being ironic?

Mass appeal is not the problem. Passive consumption is, along with the assumption that 'giving the people what they want' is a simple case of cause and effect. Lack of imagination, lack of ambition, willingness to accept second and third rate product etc etc. I guess a good metaphor would be a child who doesn't eat anything but bland food because they are never exposed to anything that is not bland. They genuinely DO like their chicken nuggets and settle for nothing less. Why is it wrong for someone who knows that there is better, tastier, more wholesome etc food out there to say so? PS none of this actually matters

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1346763203' post='1792796'] I find it very difficult to believe you really think the way this reads to me. [/quote] Beware of absolutes . Of course I don't want to eliminate the existence of all that has gone before but I would like to eliminate the idea that everything stopped when Beethoven died etc and that all the good stuff was around when I was between the age of 17 and 24 .

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1346761989' post='1792759'] The only issues are is it a good or bad performance and is the playing good or bad. [/quote] No, it's not. It is more than that. What Dylan stood for in the late 60s/early 70s is not served by someone dressing up as Dylan or even playing his stuff. What the Pistols stood for or Maiden or Joni Mitchell or Zappa or Lennon or The Jam or Yes or Mingus was something more than 'entertainment'. Entertainment is Max Bygraves, Freddie Starr, Opportunity Knocks and The X Factor. The tribute band scene dishonours those it seeks to reproduce in the same way that Athena posters misrepresented Hieronymous Bosch paintings or Hollywood dishonoured The Italian Job. The first generation versions are Art, the second generation is not.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1346757654' post='1792673'] I'll do it for £75 in the hand + 30p per mile travel [/quote] You'd do it for the glamour

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1346759921' post='1792719'] I have a feeling that some of the site members here are in tribute or covers bands, and other members could perhaps be a little more supportive. [/quote] Go, Cetera, Go!! Somehow, I suspect they are coping without my support.

Wow.

Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong. [i]That's[/i] where the zone is.

A lot of the horn arrangements on Jaco's stuff were done by Bob Mintzer and Gil Goldstein reather than by Jaco himself. Jaco is pilloried for saying I am the Greatest Everyone loved Ali for doing the same thing. And Bolt. I think, during that time, JP backed it up. Others have passed him since which is as it should be but he made it happen in the same way that others did on their instruments. He made a mark that most of us could never dream of. YOu can love him or hate him but you have to deal with him one way or another. PS Jeff Berlin thinks all fretless players sound the same. Jeff Berlin talks but he doesn't listen.

Flat Five - the Addams Family door bell or MAris from West Side Story Flat Seven - Star Trek Sixth - Inchworm or My Way Third - Stardust (OK a bit obscure for most here but it strikes a chord with me) Minor third - Smoke on the Water

I think the argument that one would rather see a tribute band in a pub/small venue than the real thing in an aircraft hanger with a bad sound etc is compelling but, in my idealistic little brain, it does amount to two wrongs not making a right. It is, as everything is, horses for courses and there will always be those who want to recapture some halcyon days or be satisfied with a bastard version of the things they missed because they were born too late. I would always rather see something fresh and original than people reproducing the greats of yesteryear. That applies to Jazz bands and classical stuff as much as it does Rock and Pop etc and agree that there are a million s*** Jazz bands regurgitating the increasingly tedious American Songbook (I have also recently heard of a Pat Metheny tribute band and a Steve Swallow tribute band - talk about missing the point). Mingus tributes, Miles tributes, Coltrane tributes, Jazz Messangers tributes etc all get the same cold shoulder from me. I rarely buy cds that amount to collections of standards, indeed any standards on a Jazz cd at all really puts me off parting with my hard earned. It always looks lazy to me. But, in short, noone gives a rat's arse what I think and why should they? In terms of the music industry, there will always be the desire to earn money, to gain attention, to travel the world or to have a good time, all of which would probably be more readily served by tribute bands than by investing anything original. In short, its low input/high return stuff. Its the MacDonaldsisation of music. Its is only a matter of time before major acts start selling franchises to anyone who wants to do a tribute. I wonder how many tribute acts would exist if they had to wear this?

Personally, I think Swing, in Jazz, comes as much from your tone as it does your note choice. If you listen to the most swingingest bass players (Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Wilbur Ware, Reginald Veal, Charlie Haden etc), they have generally quite warm/round tones whereas, if you listen to, say, Eddie Gomez, Miroslav Vitous etc (even Ron Carter) (who are all great players but whose tone is less full and rounded), the Swing element is not so obvious and less complelling. In electric bass players in Jazz, this is even more pronounced. The only great swingers on electric are Steve Swallow and Anthony Jackson and maybe Jaco on a good day but a lot of the electric guys don't swing because their tones are unsympathetic to the idea. Swallow's tone has a similar feel to an acoustic nylon string guitar; quiete loose compared to a generic electric tone. Six string players have a better chance as the lower notes are more in tune with the swing ethos but, in a nutshell, if you really want to swing, it is a LOT harder on the electric.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1346600680' post='1791041'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Rhythm Changes - Think the Flintstones theme.[/font][/color] [/quote] Or just think 'i Got Rhythm'

The walking bass part is easy enough, its soloing that offers the headaches. It is increadibly difficult to do anything meaningful with those changes at that tempo and a lot of people hold the view that Coltrane's later modal/free work came about as a result of the realisation that the complex changes of a tune like Giant Steps etc is a creative 'dead end'. Whenever I hear it played by anyone, I just get angry at the ethos of 'ooooh, look at me playing Giant Steps' and the general lack of emotionally satisfying content. Playing it is 7 etc is just juggling/a circus act and doesn't impress me on bit. Personally, I can't play it. I have tried and find it impossible to do anything that doesn't sound like a series of exercises. If I ever find a way round these changes that works for me, I will post it here. Don't wait up

You need to be careful where you go with all of this. I am appalled that Justiin Bieber can fill stadium after stadium but Charles Mingus occasionally played to empty rooms in his home town. Put on Shakespeare and you will attract 100 people whilst a really bad local football team can attract 5,000. Put on John Scofield in Cardiff and you won't fill a pub but put on a Thin Lizzy tribute band and you can call it a festival with 8,000 people. If you do it for the music, you will always win. If you do it for the audience, you are probably going to be disappointed more often than not (it is refreshing for us old jazzers to know that we can now attract an audience that competes with a rock band. My biggest ever audience (4,000) was a jazz band whilst my smallest (3) was a rock band that had a session played on Radio One).

Cycle of Fifths. Blues changes. Diatonic major and melodic minor chord scales Giant Steps That covers pretty much everything

I am hearing more ideas this time and the solo is better for it. Would be helpful if you recorded the heads as well so people have a reference point. I know 'Tune Up' but many won't so won't have a frame of reference.

Yes.

THey are all ok, nothing too tough. Just have a listen to them and get a feel for it with a chart in front of you.

They won't help much. Charts like these are played 'in the style of' and not 'the same as the original'. If you play the bass lines off a notated chart, you may find the other musicians playing something that doesn't resemble the original and your lines won't work and may even clash horribly. You would be better off getting charts with the chords and then learning the basic rhythm patterns (swing, rhumba etc). I have played all of these tunes and rarely the same twice. The first too are easy ballad/torch songs, just stick with the root notes and follow the piano. Mack is a straight swing groove and Sway is a rhumba (think the first bar of a 3:2 clave) but will depend on what the drummer is doing. I don't recall what King oF the Road sounds like rhythm section-wise.