Bilbo

Whilst there are clearly several choices for finger placement, the number of mad jumps necessary in most reading are very few, simply because people who write out the charts are not bass players so they don't include that many Chuck Rainey double stops or Wootenesque two handed tapping passages. Most reading on gigs is not that extreme and, where it is, there tends to be room for rehearsal and review because the rest of the music is equally demanding! ANd, in my experience, when those mad jumps appear, they are often extraneous and, if you miss them, noone dies!!

I agree that working with rhythm in reading is very important (as is reading pitches; you can't do one without the other) but I found that the real trouble starts not in the reading of one or two or even four bars but in the constant reading of bar after bar after bar of music with the occasional repeat bar, all as the rest of the music continues unrelentlessly!! It is the discipline of reading, concentrating on the written page and only on the written page, that I think needs particular attention. Haven't even looked at Joe's exercise yet(can't watch/hear in work and haven't had time at home). Will have a look when I get the chance.

I was with three friends last night at a gig I was playing. Two of us in our late 40s, two in their early sixties. We got talking about a mutual colleague who is dealing with lung cancer. I got into a discussion about prostrate cancer and was waffling on about the issue when one of the older guys says.... 'I've got that'. Now THAT was a pregnant pause Didn't I feel like a git! Actually he confirmed what I was saying to be true. After a few moment, the other 60+ guy says, 'anyway, back to important things; did you like my sound'?

Your points are valid, Faithless, but I put a lot of store in practising the art of reading in real time because all the practice in the world won't prepare you for dealing with the dots passing in front of your eyes in reai time in a 'sh*t or bust' fashion that is demanded by a reading gig. Agonsing over each bar is important and the stage I am describing won't be possible without having learned how to read the dots but learning to read several bars at a time, across bar lines, as you glance over the page, whilst the tune is being performed and whilst there is no time for reviewing and slowing down to nail it perfectly can [i]only [/i]be learned in 'performance' mode.

Yes, several. IPswich MU Big Band, Les Bon Oeufs (A Welsh band), The Chosen Few (Hampshire). Tota; buzz. Read the dots but trust your ears.

You are me two years ago. The techniques are different but the issues are the same. Time, intomation, phrasing etc. You just have to deal with the differing variables. You are half way there as a fretless player in terms of being used to focussing on intonation but, in short, you are starting a new journey that will bring with it highs and lows but I have yet to hear anyone say they regret it. Your budget is a credible starting point so that worry is not grave, the rest will be the same as it always has been; is it the right pick up, is the action too high, where do I put my thumb!! As for thumb position, that is a world of pain to start with but it will come. You would be surprised how many great players avoid thumb position almost entirely e.g Paul Chambers

Straight answer - both. Reading shedloads right off and not 'correcting' mistakes is a great discipline because you are learning to read not learning to play and it is by DOING it that you will get more proficient. However, if you come across a passage that you really struggle with, then it may be helpful to focus in on it to make sure you have the required understanding. But, yes, I really advocate some heavy sessions just reading and keeping going. My tutor, Dan Quinton, did this to me and it was amazingly productive.

The piano is a Band in the Box job with an alternative acoustic piano VST. I am less bothered by that as it was always going to suck but, with the bass, its all me so I can't blame the technology!! I did record this a few years ago on 2 guitars (as per the Jim Hall/Metheny version) and it was ok so I could try again with a real guitar (Nylon, steel or jazz). But, at this stage, it was a case of trying to see if the piece worked as a starter for ten. May be worth the extra effort now. New strings are on their way (I have a spare set of Solo bass but they are the lighter guage and I don't think that is a good idea in terms of what I am trying to do so will wait until Monday when the new ones arrive before I try again).

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1326450158' post='1497290'] I need theory. This has become obvious to me recently. I thought I had a good grounding but since we've found a new keyboard player for a covers band I'm in, I realise this is not the case. His level of musicianship is way above the rest of the band and now every 10 minutes, we're having to stop as he's suggesting a different note here and there for the bass or an alternative chord for guitar that would never had occurred to us and he's right, all the time. I'm not saying I hadn't learned the songs correctly but we wanted a more funky feel to the music and tend to veer from the originals in some way so he's throwing in a few nice chords here and there and I found it a little embarassing that I just couldn't find the notes that compliment them. Yesterday, in the rehearsal break he was just repeating a couple of chords and then played about 6 bass lines that would work with them. 90% of these wouldn't have even occured to me. Some sounded nicer than others but it's the fact he was able show, and explain, all the options that are open to him. [/quote] Its not that I want to be a smart arse, its that I want to be able to be that quick and flexible and to be able to make things work first time instead of by accident/trial and error. Can't see how I could do that without the core knowledge I have collected.

I just ordered some new Rotosound Solo bass strings (the one's on there are at least 10 years old, if not longer). I'll see where that takes me. After that, I can certainly try raising the action (now I play double bass, the extra tension will never interfere with the execution of anything meaningful). I am looking for a bit more 'mwah' up the top. Sounding modern is not very 'me' either, although it wouldn't hurt!!

It's complicated. OF course you can get away with out any theory but my own experiences (and, I dare say, prejudices) would lead me to conclude that those without knowledge will always remain pretty lightweight and their outlook limited. There are historical exceptions, the occasional savant etc but, in the main, those without knowledge, play like they are without knowledge and those with it, play like they have it. Now there are those that will pounce on that sentence and suggest that 'feel' or 'groove' is more important than 'education' in our playing but my response would be to add that 'feel' or 'groove' are subject to music theory just as much as chords, scales and dots and understanding what makes a reggae groove different to a bossa nova is as important as whether a ninth if flattened or shrapened. All of this matters not a jot to some folk; I suspect Peter Hook is not reading Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book this morning and his bank balance is ambivalent to the oversight, but, to my mind and in my experience, there is so much music out there that is not available to those who limit themselves by remaining uninformed about the mechanics of music. I know a lot of theory (and am still learning at a pace) and I am not even a pro, never mind a wealthy celebrity bass player but, as I said, the knowledge I have increases the enjoyment I have from listening and playing music. I advocate learning theory simply because it adds to the fun of it. And it so opens the neck up!

I knocked this one up last night, trying to see if the tune would work as a bass feature but I am not happy with the [i]sound[/i] of my fretless at all. I like the sound of the lower notes (E and A string) but find the notes higher up the neck are not giving me what I want in terms of depth/warmth etc. The bass (Wal Custom fretless 4 string) is di'd so the question is; what can I do to improve the sound? Heavier strings? New strings (these are 106 years old)? Is it the di (would it sound better mic'd up/with some air in it)? Or is it the fact that it is a seqenced piano that is killing it and not the bass at all? Do I turn the bass down and the gain up or the other way around? The tune is Don't Forget by Pat Metheny. He wrote the tune a 4th higher but to get it all on the fretless 4 string, I had to transpose it down a 4th. It still goes 'off piste' and the highest note is a bend at the very highest point on the neck (it clips) but the lower it goes, the less it sings. I woudl value people's thoughts about the recording (not so bothered about the performance). Link to Soundcloud page [url="http://soundcloud.com/robert-palmer-1/dont-forget"]http://soundcloud.com/robert-palmer-1/dont-forget[/url]

It is important to recognise that Jaco never learned that piece and played it 'off the top of his head'. I have no doubt that there was a 'game plan' before the tape started rolling and there would have been rehearsals etc but the level of detail you are expecting of yourself is kind of missing the point. In fact, I may be wrong but the hardest parts and phrases to read/learn/memorise are by far the ones more likely to have come from Jaco's own personal, sub-consious 'lick library' rather than from any intense pre-gig woodshedding. Personally, I find it appalling that a university would consider the reproduiction of an improvised line a legitimate recital piece. Feels a bit like catching a butterfly in amber. But that's me and I am an a***hole.

People have different methods. I have to say I am the last person to advise you as I can spend all day on a tune and then forget it tomorrow! Actually, what you need is David Bakers 3 books on How To Play Bebop. Vol 3 has a chapter (Chapter 2) on how to memorise tunes. Baker's books are great learning tools and this one covers your needs. You can get it as a sownload for Kindle but I woudl recommend the hard copy as the musical examples don't look good on a Kindle (altnough they aren't so bad on a PC). The are 20 odd steps so I can't type them all out here (no time) so I recommenmd the book. step 1, for example, is 'Sing the melody over and over until it is correctly implanted. Listen to recordings, check fake books, sheet music etc'.

Surely a lot of it is about group dynamics; forming, storming, norming and performing. I guess a lot of it is about using the idea of a jazz band as a metaphor. Like all such things, it only works to a point. I did a business studies course too at age 17-19 (day release). Bored me senseless (I literally slept though some of it).

Have also read the comments below the article and am pleased to see it caused such a great reaction. Unlike most of my posts in this thread!

Great fun. My suggestion on the head would be to watch where your notes [i]end[/i] as well as where they start. You will get better phrasing if you play some of the notes shorter and tighter. Also, the background bass would sound more authentic if you played alternate deadened notes alongside the held ones - the phrasing of latin bass is supposed to replicated the surdo (bass drum) in samba and they play one short note followed by a long one. It gives the rest of the groove more space. Hope that makes sense. But, in a nutshell, great video, great concept.

I always call these tunes 'the ones we all do', because they are the first one in the book; Charlie Parker's Confirmation is another 'one we all do'. But, that aside, its nicely done. As a read, its not 100% perfect but, if you were on a gig, they would much prefer your feel to someone who didn't fell right but got every note right. Good work.

Irene Cara sang it but it was written by written by Michael Gore and Dean Pitchford. No, I haven't got the dots (great bass line tho').

Steve Davis was a relatively minor figure in John Coltrane's career (i.e. less significant than Jimmy Garrison and Reggie Workman) and he appeared on several early iconic Coltrane Quartet albums including My Favourite Things and Coltrane Plays The Blues.

I have played with Jim Mullen, iain Ballamy, Stan Sultzman and a few other renowned jazzers. Once each. If I have studied properly, practiced more, got my s*** together etc, maybe i would have got to play with some of these guys twice. Be ready, people.

Now you know why I am a jazz musician. I can't remember s*** so I make it up as I go along

Finally got to it, Mike. Love the concept.The Sei sounds cool. What effects are they (plug ins, I assume?).

Kate Bush fronting a metal band. Marvellous! (I genuinely like it)