Bilbo

on't deny yourself the pleasure of finding this stuff for yourself. If you know major and minor scales and their modes you are probably 90% of the way there for most popular music but the quality is in the 10% and that is where you find the augmented, diminished, chromatic, altered etc that Doddy referred to. It is worth mentioning that the altered dominant is the 7th mode of the melodic minor scale. Most alteted chords in charts (E7b9, E7#9 etc) are all played using the the altered dominant scale. Its not as complicated as it sounds although learning the sounds of each scale is that much harder because they occur less often and often fleetingly. Kids learn this stuff one at a time. Adults always think that they can learn the whole thing in one sitting! TAke your time and learn incrementally.

If you weren't joking, it would be even funnier.

Silddx rools! I haven't enjoyed the tune so much in ages!!

Don't like those Hot Club grooves and the harmonies tend to be too 'square'. How about 'Joy Spring'?

Googled it. Not my bag. Any more suggestions?

Who is that by, Mark? Not sure if I know it.

I guess its about context. A fast paced tune can carry that a lot more than a slow one. Endless sixteenths on a ballad would be a lot harder to take than on a Parker blues. But we unquestionably agree that space of a good thing (and that my Bossa solo didn't have enough of it)!!

[quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1318798945' post='1406388']I'll be honest, I was surprised that you and Mike didn't use them more when I listened to your renditions. Mike's GS and your first fast BB rendition just seemed relentless with next to no space or breathing room for the piece as a whole... which is fine for basslines but not for solos (IMO). As I'm sure you'll agree, playing relentlessly without rests is akin to people who talk lots but truly say so very little. Rests let the piece breathe and lets whatever else you've played find somewhere to rest in the listener's mind... in the same way if you were doing a talk you would have pauses to let the point you've just made sink in.[/quote] The issue is pacing and, whilst I agree that silence is great way to break up the flow but its not the only one. A sequence of straight 8ths is going to be dull but both Mike and I broke up the sequence with held notes, syncopated notes, triplets and various other dynamic figures so 'without rests' is a bit harsh. Nevertheless, more space is an entirely legitimate suggestion.

Its strange to admit that the gaps are what makes it harder to play but easier to listen to.

Great backing track on that one, Mark, and you sound better for it - am loving that tempo! As a contrast, here's my slow one! I couldn't get the mp3 downloaded so had to make my own backing track so apologies for the cheesiness. http://soundcloud.com/robert-palmer-1/sets/basschatters-revenge

I think we all need producers

I know what you mwan about the homeogeneity, Mark. Its the old diarrhoea thing!! Will try again on the slower one!

Just realised Mark and I have used a different Aebersold and mine is twice as fast! Sorry mate. Will try and fine the slower one as it is harder to play!

Here we go, into the lion's den! Bass solo starts at 1.54. I am playing the guitar on this track also so no taking the p*** (yes, it is slightly out of tune....) http://soundcloud.com/robert-palmer-1/sets/basschatters-revenge/

Comment posted, Mark. Can get my own version of this one up quickly so watch this space!

Its an interesting question: why do people still record covers of GS? The answer could be 'because they can' but I think there is an element of proving something. I have severla versions of the tune by people such as Chris Potter and Kenny Garrett etc and I wonder why guys who have as much musicality and creativity as they have still have this apparent need to prove they meet that particular challenge. I am consciously working on learning to play these changes as an exercise (and I will post when I am ready) but I will say that I will NEVER record the tune commercially. What is the world supposed to do with all of these versions of what is, aside from the maths, essentially a pretty naff tune? Even Berg's version leaves me wondering if he thought 'what can I do to prove that I can REALLY burn? I know, 'Giant Steps' in 7:4!! Even Garrett does one melody )chorus where he halves the bar lengths (1 chord per beat instead on 1 per two beats. Its a bit 'I can out-Trane Trane'. Maybe its nothing more than sport...

I couldn't do video anyway so its audio only for me. I did an hour on it last night and am starting to make progress but still not ready for a public airing. I have played it live in the past (a long time ago) and wonder how the hell I got away with it (I probably didn't but people are polite, aren't they!). Anyway, its not the destination that matters but the journey. There is a lot of learning going on at Bag End at the moment!

PDFs still not loading. PM me with an email address and I will send it that way.

Have knocked this up using the Raney chart. Shoudl get you started,

Still having trouble loading pdfs. Getting that ipb thing still (has been weeks now)

Downloaded Frode Berg's Dig IT yesterday!! 7:4, FFS!!

I spent some time on Saturday looking at this tune. I programmes the chords into Band in a Box andplayed along. As I started to explore the changes, I realised that there are essentially only three key centres, B, G and Eb (all a major third apart instead of the usual fourths). The changes are all ii V Is modulating to the new key. Once I got my hea/ear around that, my solos started to begin to make at least a little sense.... ...at 80 bpm I then got out the Aebersold and tried to play along - no chance. Its not the changes that make it hard, its the changes AT THAT TEMPO and (Mike & Mark will know what I mean) [i]I was playing along with the SLOW version.[/i] The fast version was never going to happen. Whatever else, it was nice to get the brain working. When you do a lot of standards gigs, like I do, its easy to walk into the trap of the same old same old (jazzers have their own 'Mustang Sally's' and 'Good Times' and are as guilty as anyone of building sets based on the path of least resistance). So its nice to be reminded that there are still challenges out there. Great fun.

I spend my life not playing the right parts. I play a lot of covers where I have never heard the original so do whatever feels ok. When I then hear the original, I invariably fail to recognise it

Some great learning coming out of this thread. See what happens when we can have a adult discussion about the music instead of everyone just being 'nice' and 'polite'? Mike should be congratulated on having the courage to post a work in progress. Its encouraging to hear how people learn and not just seeing polished and perfect renditions. I think it is important to acknowledge how difficult this set of changes is. Unlike most standards, you can't 'busk' this one until the two odd chords appear. It kills every cliche you have and forces you to find an intelligent way of processing the changes. There is nowhere to hide. Coltrane spent two years learning to play over these. I am not altogether sure I want ot spend that much time on a set of changes I am not that fond of!! I think McG has a point too. Aebersolds force us to play longer solos than we would in the real world and so we are forced into the diarrhoea mode. There is a book out there full of transcriptions of the various versions of the track Coltrane recorded. Maybe we should be asking a sax player how s/he works these changes, rather than bass players? I'd love to post my version of this but I suspect it will be a while before I can find something to play on these changes that is worthy of a public airing. Not heard the guys you talk about, Mike. Will look them up.

I hit the motherlode: Barre Philips - Journal Violone (AKA Bass Barre or Barre Unaccompanied) Joe Fonda - When It's Time Marcin Oles - Ornette On Bass Jonas Tauber - Storm Walking Singing Dave Holland - Ones All/Emerald Tears Michael Formanek - Am I Bothering You? Barry Guy - Symmetries/Fizzles Joëlle Léandre - No Comment/Sincerely Miroslav Vitous - Emergence Peter Kowald - Was Da Ist? Paul Rogers - Listen Ron Carter - All Alone John Lindberg - Luminosity : Homage To David Izenzon Kent Kessler - Bull Fiddle (although Zerang joins on three tracks). Mark Dresser - Invocation/Unveil Ken Filiano - Subvenire Malachi Favors - The Natural and the Spiritual Lynn Seaton - Solo Flights Mike Milligan - Solo Flights Eberhard Weber - Pendulum Malachi Favors - The Natural and the Spiritual Fernando Grillo - Fluvine Alan Silva - Inner Song Roberto Miguel Miranda - The Creator's Musician Ed Schuller - Ong Song Music For Solo Bass William Parker - Lifting The Sanctions/Testimony/Painter's Autumn Henri Texier - Amir/Varech Aladar Pege - Virtuoso Solo Bass Anthony Cox - That & This Ingebrigt Håker-Flaten - Double Bass Dominic Duval - Songs For Krakow/Nightbird Inventions/Anniversary Wilbert de Joode - Olo Journal Violone by Barre Phillips Unveil CD by Mark Dresser William Parker solo bass record on No More records Anthony Cox's Double Base Kent Kessler's Bull Fiddle Ed Schuller's Ong Song Ingebrigt Haker Flaten double bass Dominic Duval Songs for Krakow, Nightbird Inventions and Anniversary Wilbert de Joode's "Olo" Vitold Rek "bassfiddle alla polacca" Stefano Scodanibbio "Geografia Amorosa" Anders Jormin "Alone Harry Miller's - Children at Play