Bilbo

I do smile at these 'tone as a holy grail' stories. I have never worked on my tone with this level of obsessiveness and have had three people this week (a bass player, saxophonist and a recording engineer) independently tell me my sound was great. Stock Wal with 10 year old Rotosound Solo Bass strings on it through Eden Metro. Just play the damn thing

I'm nearly in Essex, but not. Wilkommen!

[quote name='stewartmusic' post='1146743' date='Mar 2 2011, 08:43 AM']But this is not always the case, if you mean doubling the celli as playing the same notes as them. Although [b]in some earlier music in baroque or classical times when the bass would play the continuo it would most certainly double the celli [/b]but for more modern composers such as Mahler and Stravinsky the double bass was most certainly playing its own part.[/quote] I know it is not the case in later music but early on, when it was christened the double bass, it did

Hakim was astonishing with Weather Report. Catch this duel with Joe Zawinul!!! [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLVG4Q8_Rqs"]Omar Hakim[/url]

Because it doubles the cellos in an orchestra an octave down.

Play against a metronome on 2 and 4 and get youself into 'the zone' listening to every minute string buzz, friction noise and little nicks and nocks that contribute to the formation of each note. You need to do this because, if you don't, it will come backa bnd bite you on the ar*e for the rest of your career. Endless repetition is the source of all advanced technique. Learn to love the simplicity of it.

Thsi was my first although this is NOT the transcription I did at the time but an up-to-date corrected version. I chose it because it was within the range of the bass and didnt' have anything too fast or difficult to execute on the bass. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48470&hl=song+for+strayhorn"]Song For Strayhorn[/url]

[quote name='lettsguitars' post='1143324' date='Feb 27 2011, 02:06 PM']i like the 3rd/6th progression if that's right. not sure what it's called like. but if you're in G, it would be G A# C# E G. i find it fits in at the end of a fill quite nicely. got that from the jaco lessons on youtube.[/quote] That's a diminished arpeggio (a series of minor thirds).

[quote name='jdstrings' post='1133006' date='Feb 19 2011, 01:55 AM']I hope all that is not too overwhelming and that some of it proves relevant to you![/quote] Really helpful, Jerome. I kinda knew that getting a set up would be helpful but I have been quoted anything up to £600 for all the different elements (inc strings, bridge etc) and just haven't got that kind of money available at the moment. I have a set of Evah Weich's on there so the strings are good quality. To be honest, the most positive part of your post was the 'After 14 months it's not entirely surprising that it can still be really hard work' bit! I have played both of Jake Newman's basses and found them like butter - much easier to play but they are worth between 3 and 6x what I paid for mine so I wasn't surprised I guess I just need to figure out how to get the bass looked at without having to sell a kidney.

I have worked with Simandl 1 as an electric and double bass player. Not altogether sure what you mean by random, Zach? The early pieces are all key centred and melodic.

[quote name='Count Bassy' post='1141086' date='Feb 25 2011, 12:29 PM'](you do know that don't you Bilbo?).[/quote] I did

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1140919' date='Feb 25 2011, 10:30 AM']I think there is [b]sometimes[/b] something of the anti-hero thing going on here. 'Everyone likes X so I won't' kind of thing. Happens with all the great technicians on every instrument.[/quote] The emphasis was conscious.

[quote name='Count Bassy' post='1141012' date='Feb 25 2011, 11:40 AM']Yes, and it happens to iconic songs as well, for example Mustang Sally, All Right Now, Sweet Home Alabahma, etc., but best not start on that old chestnut again. Ooops - I just did.[/quote] Murrrch Ftumch Gnerrrspyth!! (Bilbo biting his tongue)

I think the point was some people slag of his tone but shouldn't because it is iconic. I think there is sometimes something of the anti-hero thing going on here. 'Everyone likes X so I won't' kind of thing. Happens with all the great technicians on every instrument.

I ask the question also whether there is a genre difference here in terms of what works. I did a rehearsal recently with a 'proper' violinist and mentioned that I was looking for an arco teacher who didn't live 60 miles away and we got talking about left hand technique and he said mine was much better than most players he had worked with in orchestras. It amused me because, in my own mind, I'm all over the place trying to get to where the players I listen to can get to but, in a nutchell, he seemed to think that a lot of classical bass playing was more 'centred' than jazz with fewer made skips etc. Reading this thread, I wondered whether owen's point about everyone being happy is about most people being able to do what they want to do because most people aren't doing madly technical stuff. HEALTH WARNING!! I don't know what I am talking about

I went through an ardent Jaco phase, not in an imitative sense but in the sense that he was one of four bass players who made me aware of the potential of our instrument beyond the bounds of the Rock I was then listening to (the other 3 were Jeff Berlin, Percy Jones and Jimmy Johnson). For a while there, I ought almost everything Jaco had ever done and soon realised that he had his limts (lots of licks and [i]serious[/i] repetition) but I also realised that his 'tone' was not a single sound but a range of sounds. The one everyone thinks of is the 'A Remark You Made' 'mwah' sound that defined a generation of players but there was also the much tighter sounds he used for funk grooves, the harmonics thing, the distorted Hendrix 'Third Stone' thing, the wooly 'Chromatic Fantasy' sound etc etc. There was also his conscious changing of tone within a line (watch his right hand in videos of 'The Chicken'). He played on some of the greatest fusion albums ever and made his mark as a leader (his main three solo cds are top drawer not just because of the bass playing but because of the music) and as a sideman in all sorts of settings but, as he got ill, he got lazy, lost his 'muse' and just kept regurgitating his own stuff (he played for the applause and that was all he got). He was, at different points in his career, a great player, a great musican and a real icon for us as players. Like Hendrix, Coltrane, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Miles, Jimmy Blanton and Scott LaFaro etc there was bass before Jaco and bass after. Its as simple as that. His isn't the only iconic bass sound but it is undoubtedly one of the most distinctive and influential. As for Stanley Clarke, his sound was the [i]absence[/i] of tone.

Mmmmm. Comedy jazz. My favourite The trouble with 'in-jokes' like this is they seldom travel well Now lets' hear some proper stuff. I know you can do it (that much is obvious). You both have credible technique, good sounds (if recorded a little 'dry') and some creative arranging ideas. Now stop polishing turds and get down to business

The simple fact is that it is not the covers or originals that defines the ability of a band to get the gig, it is the ability of the band to pull an audience. Covers bands and tribute bands use the reputations of their subjects to secure a pseudo-guarantee of an audience. If an originals band has a followng, it should be equally attractive to a venue. The question is, how can bands work on building a following if the gigs are all given over to covers bands and tribute acts. I guess this is where they have to work a lot harder using alternative methods like the internet etc.

[quote name='JellyKnees' post='1139718' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:07 AM']Of couse, but unfortunately the opportunities to play live as an original band are severely limited these days.... I blame all these feckin tribute/cover bands, but especially the tribute acts. They really p me off actually...stop pretending to be someone else and go do something creative ffs. Parasites. Phew, glad I got that off my chest...[/quote] Careful, JK! You'll be as unpopular here as me if you carry on in that vein.

Welcome to Basschat, Mike.

I know a couple of piano players that write these books. They are given a recording and told to knock the charts together for piano and vocals with those awful chord box things. One middle aged balding guy told me he had done the Sex Pistols Never Mind The Bollocks for piano a vocals. He played it for me - how we laughed. HC's guitar playing was perfectly congruent with the ensemble sound.

I play a 5 string double bass and find that there are significant differences between the same notes played on a high C rather than above the fifth fret of the G. My inotnation is better on the 5 and I rarely need to go above thrid position in a routine standards set (which is why the intonation is better). There is a strained quality that is characteristic of the double bass as you go up the neck (like singer going out of their range) and it brings a huma quality to the sound that electric basses lack. On the five, this effect occurs at a different place. I guess my point is that the difference between a 5 and a 4 string bass (electric or double) is not just defined by the lower/higher 5 notes. I don't like low Bs; never found them sufficiently warm enough for me, but have to admit to never having tried a 5 string electric with a high C. Have had 5s and 6s but never found the extra range particularly useful.

I guess you should ask yourself what need it is you are trying to meet. For me, the bass is increasingly peripheral to the music and is simply a tool for filling 'that' space in the overall sonic picture. Whether it sounds like a '57 Jazz or a birdseye maple Ken Smith Alembic Custom Fodera MkIII with ebony LEDs is not important to me. So I don't really get bass GAS. Amps have been the same although I am getting to the point where lifting the Eden Metro in and out of cars is getting harder on me physically so I am thinking of a smaller (but not lightweight) option like a Markbass set up etc. When I see these BC signatures where people have 8 or more basses, aside from wondering how they can afford them, I wonder what its is about, especially when they are all pretty much identical. Is the ability to produce all these minimally different sounds that important or are there other drivers? If you know what the actual purpose of owning each bass is, you will know whether you need it or not. I only need one credible professional quality instrument.

I always advocate for the Mark Levine book Doddy mentioned but have also recently discovered some useful stuff in David Baker's books (although they are jazz specific, the theory is transferrable); Jazz Improvisation: A Comprehensive Method for All Musicians How To Play Bebop (3 volumes) Arranging and Composing for the Small Ensemble: Jazz, R & B, Jazz Rock: For the Small Ensemble, Jazz, R & B, Jazz-Rock I would also add: Arranging for Large Jazz Ensemble by Ken Pullig Modern Jazz Voicings by Ted Pease Jazzology: The Encyclopedia of Jazz Theory for All Musicians by Robert Rawlins Composing for the Jazz Orchestra by William Russo (slim or full version depending on your level of interest) I would also argue (although I am prepared to be challenged on this) that 'bass spcific' theory books are not the way to go as the theory is universal and its application will be much more use to you if it is not entirely bass focussed.