Bilbo

[quote name='XB26354' post='892091' date='Jul 11 2010, 05:21 PM']The basic areas to master are (in general order of importance); 1) Timing and feel - without this you'll struggle as bass is fundamentally a rhythm instrument. 2) Ears - you need to be able to hear what music sounds like and see it on the bass. 3) Technique - if you can hear the idea but you can't play it, you'll have problems. Technique is purely a means to an end - to allow you to have the freedom to execute what you hear. 4) Theory and reading - not essential but very helpful both for self-education, and in the professional world of theatre, musical and the handful of pro reading gigs there are nowadays.[/quote] I just wanted to challange XB26354's list, not because I disagree with it but because I think it is worth pointing out a couple of things. Theory and reading music are flagged up here as a bit of an optional add on whilist technique, timing and feel and ears are given greater emphasis. The OP expressed a feeling that they wanted to go back to scratch because they could play 'bits of songs' etc. I think playing by ear and working on technique in isolation of theory (and, arguably, reading) has the potential to always leave the student frustrated at their limitations. A strong grounding in theory (supported by usable reading skills) will, in my view, provide a much deeper pool from which it draw inspiration. In short, learning theory and harmony will provide you will a lot of transferable information that learning 'Teen Town' by rote won't, however great the feel. [quote name='XB26354' post='892091' date='Jul 11 2010, 05:21 PM']If you want to be versatile and play lots of styles then try to listen to as much of the music in those styles as possible. With most forms of music and bass playing the answers are in the music you listen to. If you're at all serious about points 3 and 4 then I'd recommend a decent teacher, to save potentially years of wasted effort learning, unlearning and relearning stuff. If you just want to rock out better then get in a decent band if possible and play with better musicians so you can learn from them. Ultimately it's about what you really want from bass playing. You don't need all four to be successful, but without good timing and feel, and good ears, you may struggle to improve. You mention targets - these are best worked out and set by a teacher as someone needs to see exactly how/what you play, what you're good at and what needs work before suggesting anything.[/quote] A slightly confused message, if I may be so bold! If you develop a great feel, it will serve you well, I have no doubt, but, without understanding the mechanics of music, you will only be able to go so far with it and are likely to get frustrated in the longer term. Good ears are also, in my experience, another potential red herring. Those who explore the full range of scales, arpeggios and modes tend to have better ears than those that just listen to a lot of music. My advice is simple: ground your studies in theory and reading whilst simultaneously working on timing, feel and developing good ears. If you focus on time, feel and ear training, you will develop no knowledge of theory or develop any reading skills. If you work on theory and reading, you can ALSO develop good timing, great feel and great ears AT THE SAME TIME. Its a no brainer from where I am standing. And as for fun, I have said here before that I think it is overated. Not because I don't have it (I am THRILLED to sit there with my new double bass, a bow and page 1 of F. Simandl's book - ask the wife.....), but because I think people think hedonism is the only kind of fun to he had. Work can be fun. Learning can be fun. 'Fun' for its own sake can get a little boring.

Rotosound Solo Bass (groundwounds) - have used them n my Wal for 23 years with no discernable fretboard wear. [url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/7454-rotosound-solo-bass-55-4-string-45-65-85-105.html/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/7454...m_campaign=base[/url]

Sweet.

Jakesbass is in Aldershot. I can recommend him as a natural teacher and many here have benefitted from his input.

Nice trio, Ben. I am hearing John Taylor's trio, bits of Jarrett and Mehldau and some Bill Evans. Its an organic trio that avoids bebop cliches and takes its performances somewhere responsively rather than just going through the motions. Lots of listening going. Great sound from you again and a great recording overall. What was it done on? Not the video mic, surely?

[quote name='Steve Amadeo' post='889235' date='Jul 8 2010, 08:39 AM']Nice bass, nice collection of jazz books. You've got more jazz books than my local Waterstones! Lovely.[/quote] There are two more bookcases full - Waterstones in Oxford Street couldn't compete!!

No. Sorry, mate, I got the name of the pick up mixed up. It is a K&K model. It consists of 4 contact microphones placed under each string (see the product here at Golihur). I chose it as it was an affordable option when I was playing a borrowed bass. My long term aim is to get a Realist but, for now, this is doing the job wel enough. [url="http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1426-KANDK_SOUND_DOUBLE_BIG_TWIN_UPRIGHT_BASS_PICKUP.html"]http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1426-...ASS_PICKUP.html[/url]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='888993' date='Jul 7 2010, 09:50 PM']Is that a Bassmax? Any particular reason why you stuck it in the treble side of the bridge? And why you didn't include its output in your recording? Curious because I've got one on my bass but it has never sounded right despite endless fecking with it. Also, I'm guessing you're about 6'3"? [/quote] Yes but it is evenly spaced across the bridge (under the gaps not under the strings as there are 5 strings and 4 gaps)- the angle of the shot distorts it. It sounds pretty cool through my Eden (flat). I didn't record with it for the sample as I wanted people to hear the bass not the pick up.

Easier to read, basically, but you are absolutely right.

Photos added at last

Recorded in Cubase through a Rode NT1A microphone using the stock strings and no eq. The only issue that impacts significantly on the sound is mic placement (it was near the bridge about a foot in front of the bass). I think it sounds cool as is so am really looking forward to getting teh Evah's on it (they have not arrived yet - not expecting them for a couple of weeks as I ordered from the US).

Now with a sample (photos coming - camera ran out of juice!!)

Lead line for head only (no chords)

I agree that Miller does that but would also argue that his general concept is a little more wholistic than most so this is not surprising. My one criticism of Miller is that his 'thing' just leaves me cold. I like his funk grooves etc but, fundamentally, I have not heard anything by him that moves me. Same with Jeff Berlin's solo stuff, Victor Wooten etc. Great spectacle but no emotion.

[quote name='bassace' post='887452' date='Jul 6 2010, 04:00 PM']Also, you'll get one for less than £5k from Contrabass Shoppe, or have I misunderstood your post?[/quote] I am no expert on pricing basses but, on every other accessory I have looked at (bows, cases, rosin, books etc), The Contrabasse Shoppe is not very competitive. Without making accusations towards anyone in particular, to be blunt, I am beginning to think there is almost a cartel going on in the UK, pushing prices up. I look at European prices compared to UK prices and find myself thinking 'why can't anyone get these basses in stock for these prices over here'. Or is it just UK import duties pushing the prices up? Can anyone explain?

On the available specifications, I would go for [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/christopher_db_303_kontrabass_34.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/christopher_db_30...ntrabass_34.htm[/url] Also, have you seen this (I did, after I had ordered mine )? [url="http://www.musicalinstrumentsales.co.uk/photoad.php?adId=11208"]http://www.musicalinstrumentsales.co.uk/ph....php?adId=11208[/url]

I have come to believe that the issue of 'solo' bass and the tensions that exist between the role of the bass as a foundation instrument and as a solo voice are best viewed from an aesthetic perspective. The choices a composer or arranger makes in preparing a composition for performance are many and complex. Which instrument takes the main theme/melody, what instruments are used in the ensemble, what harmony instrument is used, what voicings, do you harmonised with this horn or that one, is the guitar acoustic or electric, is there a drummer or percussionist, neither or both. There are thousands of choices that take place in deciding how best to present the work in question. In light of this, I have found that many of the bass-led ensembles lack any sense of responsibility where these choices are concerned. The bass player features him/herself as the main melodic voice because s/he can, not because the piece calls for that sound/texture. The choices are arguably egocentric and are about the 'showcasing' of the persons skills rather than in presenting the music being performed. The choices made by improvising players whilst performing can be equally irresponsible (Feraud appears to be one of the culprits). I find that the 'best' bass players are the ones who do what is right for the composition not the ones who rip the place apart with their chops. The more interesting players, to me, are the ones who do great things in the context of a performance. Listen to Jimmy Johnson, Anthony Jackson, Alphonso Johnson, Paul Chambers on the great Miles Davis/Gil Evans collaborations etc. The players are great [i]in the context of the performances [/i]and not as featured instrumentalists. IME, very few bass solos succeed in the overall arc of a composition/performance. Its seldom the chops leave a lasting impression but the melodies, harmonies and compositional flow. Lots of bass orientated recordings feature the instrument at a cost to the works being performed and lose their appeal quite quickly. IME, no musician ever did his best work at a bass clinic/music fair.

I know what the terms mean but have never heard them used in the UK jazz community. A cat is a musician. Shedding is practising (i.e. spending time 'in the woodshed' (locked away from distractions) developing your musical skills). So a cat who sheds is a musician who practises. It tends to refer to people who are working on addressing a specific technical deficiency or revealed shortcoming (cats who saw a great player like Bird or Trane or who got burned at a jam session would refer to going back into the shed so they could re-emerge as a more competitive player). I think it was mostly a product of its era (50s/60s) and is probably still lingering around in certain areas of the US. But, no, its not really travelled to Europe that much.

Every decade, whether I need to or not...... Hate new strings. All clanky.

Just listening to 'Miles Ahead', the first Gil Evans/Miles Davis collaboration. Great, great stuff.

All good advice. My only beef with all of this info on Latin bass playing is that there doesn't seem to be much of a market for the equivalent 'Latin Drumming'. I got the Goines/Ammen book a decade ago but have rarely come across a drummer who was able to go there with me!!

[quote name='bob_pickard' post='886234' date='Jul 5 2010, 12:54 PM']Well Done Bilbo! I'll be joining you in a few weeks - Gedo's stuff looks great but what made you choose them over Thomann etc etc?[/quote] The fully carved bit was part of it (Thomann's 5 strings are laminate if I recall correctly), as was the fact that they are Czech not Chinese. 27frets was also very positive about his Gedo bass and we discussed it at length. Add a two year guarantee that would not be available with a private sale and I was sold. My personal view, and it is no more than that, was that I could agonise over getting the perfect bass and tie myself on knots seeking the holy grail of basses or I could get a sense of what I want and then go for it. I believe that I learn to play the basses and guitars I buy rather than expecting them to 'fit me'. Endless tweaking of action and string size etc have always struck me as of limited value. I spend time with my instruments in order to make the minute adjustments I need to make making music possible. Its not an easy task and I don't think it will be significantly easier if I get this instrument over that one. Two basses and 5 guitars later, I have never been disappointed. The basses that have come and gone have done so primarily because they are fretted.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='885802' date='Jul 4 2010, 08:59 PM']I'm sold, I just hope my recent left wrist scratchy feeling isn't going to turn into anything serious, I'm going to call the GP about it tomorrow. [/quote] Have you had a lesson? I had really bad problems in teh past but one lesson with Jakesbass and I have had no trouble since. Worth it as a preventative measure?

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='885824' date='Jul 4 2010, 09:16 PM']I would be very nervous of using a high C string, I'd assume it would be so weedy it would need a very confident player to make the most of it.[/quote] Interestingly, and this was one of the things Bernie mentioned when we discussed the option, the notes on the high C ring truer than the same notes higher up on the G string, much the same as when you play notes on the G string that also appear higher up the D. It doesn't sound thin at all. Will be even better with the Evah's (had to source a Evah High C from the US, though (Quinn Violins)!!)

After nearly seven months of research (soome of you here have contributed to this), I finally got myself my very own double bass. I listened to the arguments from everyone about trying thousands of instruments, preferably old ones, and all of the horror stories about the various pitfalls everyone has heard about. I also listened to the 'just do it' brigade, spoke to luthiers, dealers, players etc and looked all over the net for advice and guidance. And then I made my decision. I bought one from Gedo Musik in Germany. Get this: its a five string (high C). I looked at several others and was attracted to the idea of a 5 string and, luckily enough, the no.1 call guy for jazz in the area where I live is a 5 string player (Bernie Hodgkins) so we talked and he convinced my that my reservations were unwarranted and so I just went for it. It cost 1,700 euros (£1350 +p+p) and it all came in at £1,458 (inc. bow and case). Here is a link to the bass at the on-line store. [url="http://www.gedo-musik.de/shop/product.php?id_product=177"]http://www.gedo-musik.de/shop/product.php?id_product=177[/url] Only concern is the usual strings issue and I have some Evah Pirazzi's on order but I gigged with the bass today (two sets in a piano/sax/bass trio) and it sounded great (my playing was a bit clumpy but I had only 30 minutes practice on the instrument before I got to gig it so I can't complain). Couple of dodgy moments with the high C but nothing grave. Ok, its not an Italian bass but the instrument is a Czech made, fully carved bit of kit with ebony fingerboard (the neck is two octaves and a whole tone long (equivalent of 26 frets). That means my range is from low E to D a whole tone short of 4 octaves higher . Gets me well into the cellos range so I am going to spend some time working on the arco stuff - I have a French and German bow available to me so will spend some time with each to ascertain which type works for me (I have at last found an arco teacher locally - cellist by trade but also plays DB). The build quality is very good and I am happy with the purchase - its not a dream bass by any standards but, for a beginner like me, I could ask for no more on my available budget. I will get some photos up as soon as I can.