Bilbo

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='820934' date='Apr 27 2010, 06:11 PM']You could try following my "Getting started with Music Reading" series on the Boot Camp, which is pinned at the top of this forum. It's as relevant to DB as BG and I'm keeping things fairly simple to begin with. So far there are 2 sessions - Numbers 20 and 21 - with Session 22 on the way. The Major[/quote] Recommended. Also, I like the F.Simandl and Pagannini's Caprices

Which bow did you go for, tnit? (He says, hijacking his own thread for something more interesting )

Got a gig that night, mate. Can't make it. Shame. Last saw Dave on that classical thing he did 'Bass Inventions' - didn't work for me. Before that it was teh Extensions tour and Kenny WHeeler Music for Large and Small Ensembles. Dave is the best. I have all of his CDs on my ipod (except Life Cycle and Emerald Tears which you need silence for - no point in walking the streets listening to it as you won't be able to hear anything). Have a good one!

Pending the sale of my Status (out on approval as I type), I will have only one electric bass, my Wal Custom Fretless 4-string, which I have had since April 1986 (24 years ago last Sunday - I still have the receipt). I was a bit anxious because I thought 'what if it breaks' and then had a word with myself. 24 years without a single breakdown, without a single string snapping, half a dozen 9v batteries at most - damn it - I haven't even had to tune it!!! (Ok that's a lie but you get the point). I have 4 guitars and ONLY ONE BASS. Don't get me wrong, I am a bass player first and foremost and only have the guitars for recording/writing (jazz guitar, steel strung electro-acoustic, nylon strung electro-acoustic and an old acoustic with Nashville tuning). I am using a borrowed double bass and am working hard on getting the money together to buy one but, in a nutshell, basswise, the eggs are all in one basket. No low B. No ERB. No 6,7, 8, 9 or 11 string. No effects. No single cutaway. But what's really interesting is that I have no GAS for one. Hand me an Anthony Jackson Presentation 6 string and I will bite your hand off but I don't covet one and certainly won't be commissioning one this side of a lottery win (unlikely as I don't buy tickets). Its just me and the music. It actually feels quite cathartic!

[quote name='TPJ' post='820739' date='Apr 27 2010, 03:34 PM']Glad to hear the playing is going well and nothing is hurting, except maybe the old fingertips.[/quote] Interestingly, no blisters. Nothing. It wasn't until I put my hands into hot water later that night that I felt anything at all. Then it felt a little tender but only under the heat. Weird. I was expecting more but I guess 30 years of electric bass playing has some effect on callouses.

If you can hear the difference between a major and a minor chord, you can get away with murder. But its a pretty shallow victory, isn't it? 'Getting away with it' is not what I took up the bass for.

Did my second ever double bass gig last Sunday and my first with a drummer; Roger O'Dell from Shakatak. Chris Ingham and Kevin Flanagan completed the quartet on piano and sax respectively, both tutors at the Anglia Ruskin University in Cambridge. No pressure there, then . Three sets but I only managed two on the double bass as Kevin and Roger made no concessions to my status as a 'learner' and played some pretty choppy tunes. I could have kept going but, as Chris said, the impetus went out of my playing as my arms started to flag. Usual suspects: Green Dolphin Street, My One and Only Love, Straight No Chaser, a rhythm changes tune, Once I Loved, Corcovado, Meditation etc - some of it came off quite nicely and my solos have improved for having slowed down and because my cliched 'pattern playing' has been curtailed by the change of instrument. I used a pick up for the first time: a KK Sound Double Big Twin from Golihur Music in the US. Easy to fit but now I have a whole new aspect of sound reinforcement to learn about. The sound was ok for the gig but, as Chris said, it was over eq'd because I was using my Eden and its electronics were set for an electric and tweaked rather than properly eq'd for the upright. I am sure that will come over time. I will probably need to think about a change of amp for doubloe bass. I have the SWR/GK set up but I don't think it delivers But, in a nutshell, I did it. Nobody died and, other than a bit of legit fatigue on the day, no pain. Was practising again the next day with no residual discomfort. I have another gig there in a couple of weeks with Malcolm Miles, and alto player and teacher at Colchester Institut; another local legend. Ah well! In at the deep end!!

Interesting dilemma! I actually like the idea in principle as I believe that one of the biggest barriers to musical development in the UK is the sycophantic pleasantries that we rely on to get by. If someone comes up to me after a gig and says something, I always do a critical check of their position. Are they informed? Are they sober? Where does their perspective come from? etc.. If Jakesabass, Major Minor, Doddy, daflewis, joncaulfield and a few others approached me and said 'you're rushing', 'your intonation is iffy' - I would take note and act accordingly. If tBBC said 'oi, dogbreath. Jazz sucks', I would ignore it. But, as I don''t know most people on here at all well, I would be hard pushed to know whether their perspectives were valid or not. I have heard one great guitar player (ex-GIT (US)) say to me 'fretless is dead, maaaan. Its so 70s'. What do I do with that? If Jeff Berlin says 'no metronome', where do I take that? A lot of it is subjective and loaded with people's conscious or unconscious agendas. Some criticism is about people not 'getting' what you are trying to do. In my experience, the greatest learning is done when a player offers a suggestion not a criticism. Two people have previously changed my playing for the better in an instant: a drummer and a trumpet player. One by pointing out a tendency he had noticed over several gigs and the other by explaining the concept of playing 'ahead of the beat'. No bass player (outside of a teaching situation) has ever come up to me at a gig and given me anything I can use. The best compliment I ever got was at a jam session where I played on one tune. A guy came up (never seen him before or since) and said, with a smile and a nod: 'I could see what you were doing' before walking away.

Don't know that Miles ever stopped playing in pubs! His discography is littered with recordings at club dates and a lot of these clubs were pretty small - in 'rock' terms, he rarely played anywhere BUT 'pubs' until quite late in his career. The 70s were considered to be the 'dark years' for jazz purists because most of the musicians were forced to either stop playing jazz altogether or to start playing some form of hybrid jazz/rock/funk/fusion. There was a lot of bad stuff recorded at that time, undoubtedly, but the gems are there if you look. Conference of the Birds is one strong LP - its is quite 'free' but it is not so far out that it is unlistenable.

I only have one bass - discussion over

Have to chime in because this is one of my main hobby horses! I love reading. I wish I could do it more often because it means that I can play better music more quickly. I have a gig this Saturday with a blues band - no dots, just chord charts. It is an important gig for the band leader and I want ot get it right for him because he has invested a lot of time in the band he is promoting. Trouble is, I have had to book a day off work to rehearse because we can't find the time otherwise. I know, from experience, that, even with the rehearsal, there will be shaky moments but, because I know the players, we will make it work. If we had had proper charts the end results would be better and the time rehearsing would probably not have been necessary. Because I read to a credible level, I could do a big band gig tonight, with 22 other people, playing great, sophisticated arrangements and nail it wihout any real difficulty (as others have said, odd passages can prove problematic but you get by with your ears and knowledge of the genre). I have just taken up the double bass and practice with Bach cello suites - it helps me to learn to play the fretboard without looking at it. The Bach also helps develop my ears - I don't need to learn it because I can read it. So, instead of spending hours on one piece, I can get through more music more quickly. It excites me to experience music this way instead of spending hours rehearsing so that other people can learn their parts (for teh record, I tend to learn pieces by ear quicker than most buskers because, in my experience, their attitude to reading is like their attitude to everything about the music they play - the settle too readily for 'good enough'. Reading is, for me, THE most useful tool I have. I wish there were more players that could do it as it would invariably mean that the music would be better quicker.

Look for 'Little Plastic Castle' live. Marvellous groove.

Let's all calm down, people. I don't think anyone really disagrees. This argument is turning into an argument about the argument not about the issue Faithless opened the discussion on. Listen to some jazz. Chill out

Sorted. Parcel monkey seems to provide all I need at a great price. For info - they did it for £12, including insurance to £400 for only an extra £4 (£1 per hundred insured).

My life experience tells me that, whilst I can enjoy any gig, I can't enjoy 'any' gig for very long. I have a wedding band gig tomorrow. I do one a month. I like it. The band is hot and the grooves PAP (phat as ph**k). But, if you asked me to do that gig 3 x per week every week, I would cave in by about week three. I can play jazz every day no problem. I can't really do that with any other genre. Fortunately, I don't have to.

To be fair to Faithless, I think the point he is making is that he would not turn down a great jazz gig for a commercial one, not that he wouldn't do the commercial one. I think the point is a valid one but I think it is important to point out how crappy some of this great 'smokin' jazz gigs can be. There is a Mike Stern dvd out there where he is filmed (in a washed out black and white) playing in that 55 Bar where he has had a residency for 200 years. It is, to all intents and purposes, a crappy little pub gig. I have seen photos of gigs by Coltrane and Paul Chambers etc and the s*** tips some of these guys had to play, right up to the day they died, was astonishing. Now, if the music is great, then the music is great but I suspect that, like any gig, playing with the same people for years is going to get dull and predictable (lots of Stern tunes are riff orientated so, for a player, they will have limited attraction), especially if teh places being layed are seedy little clubs. A change may be a way of breaking an impasse. Add the opportunity to earn great money (which Gwiz may be able to use to fund his next cd), to travel, to meet new people, to eat great food in great hotels etc and you can see why players may take the gig. I think, for a lot of us, it is hard to understand how unglamourous the life of a jazz musician can be. Living for the music is all well and good but its not an 'all or nothing' thing. Stern's music is great but its not the be all and end all, even for jazzers. I can see why Gwiz would hand that gig on (someone, after all, handed it to him). I'd do the Stern gig for a bit, Janek. Call me on.......

[quote name='urb' post='815995' date='Apr 23 2010, 11:37 AM']but I guarantee that most bandleaders - including jazz ones - don't want some noodle monster bassist if they can't nail the bass parts - the ability to solo is bonus not a prerequisite to being a 'good' player.[/quote] Absolutely. And what is worse, you don't want someone who spends their time failng to be a credible solist AT THE EXPENSE OF core skills. Almost everyone starts working on Donna Lee long before they can REALLY nail a shuffle.

I am looking to insure a bass I am selling here when I send it. Seemed logical to me.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='815946' date='Apr 23 2010, 11:13 AM']There was once a time when the likes of Weather Report and Return To Forever played arena-style gigs.[/quote] True, but these were often as support bands or at festivals and not as headliners. Neverthelss, as you say, they had sufficient appeal to appear at pretty mainstream popular music events. Miles Davis used to do things at the Filmore's but only supporting people like Sly & The Family Stone etc (much to the chagrin of the dark prince).

Need to send a bass but need to insure it in transit. Courier only covers it to £100. Anyone done it?

Its all a lot more complicated than many of these posts imply. Jazz is not as popular as pop music, end of. We all get that. However, the fact that pop music is more popular is generally because it is there, it has a presence all over the media. Whenever you do jazz gigs, people who ask for requests usually ask for one of the top 10: Moondance, Take 5, Fever, Girl From Ipanema, Music To Watch Girls By, Sway - the Rat Pack stuff - all of which were hit singles. Jazz has, at various points in its history, had a massive social presence but changes in the industry have changed the way people use music. Early on in the history of popular music, the only music everyone heard was live. No recordings, no discos, no clubs, no radio. Every house had a piano and someone nearby who could play it; either that or they had a player piano. More interestingly, when radio started to become popular, the music heard was always played live. If you were listening to the radio in LA, some musicians in New York were playing it and earning money. More to the point, most of this live music was instrumental as vocalists could not compete with volume of most instruments. When recording became possible, it took a few more years before people would clock the fact that you could multi track things and mix a voice louder than the band. So the singer moved to the front of the band. The number of bands reduced dramatically as the recorded singers started to monpolise the airwaves and people started to play records at functions instead of use live bands. Bring in the guitar/electric bass and we have a new threat/opportunity. It can be played by someone running around like a luntaic. Unlike a double bass, trombone, trumpet, vibraphone etc, it is easy to play a three chord guitar song whilst jumping around like a fool. Try playing Lush Life when the guitar is hung around your knees and on fire. Now throw in video - now people have to be abel to dance as well as play - tough call on a double bass player. Jazz is a lot less visual and lacks the element of spectacle that defines most of what we hear/see today. The problem is that music is absorbed by osmosis and we like what we are familiar with and, today, that means video as much as it does music. Noone hears jazz enough to learn to like it. One factor is that radio and tv can't cope with anything more than 3 and a half minutes long. Thats not even long enough to allow the introduction for Jaco' s Liberty City to build to a climax let alone for the main themes of the piece to develop. Songs nowadays are mostly created to sound familiar. Nothing 'new' is allowed to pollute the airways - that applies to most genres: jazz, classcial, folk, country - it all starts as avant garde, moves into the mainstream, fades into obscurity then enjoys a 'neo-classical' period before fading into a minority interest. It happens to every genre. Every generation needs its rebels. The fact that the songs of rebellion are the same in almost everyway to those of the previous generation is irrelevant. The industry continually reinvents its anti-heroes: Jerry Lee Lewis, Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Iggy Pop, Johnny Rotten, NWA, Eminem, Marilyn Manson etc etc - all saying 'it sucks, we are the future'!! Its got nothing to do with the quality of the product or its objective merits but its all to do with the way in which the media, in the widest sense, uses its. Kids like to be angry and to find a voice for that anger but its not about aesthetic quality. Bill Frissel makes some of the most far out guitar music around (more radical than anything Joe Satriani ever did) but he is on dozens of movie soundtrakcs because it works in that setting. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people will have heard him and not known. Does he get his work played on mainstream radio or tv? No. Why? Because he is ugly. Does he get the next film gig. Yes. Jazz has a place and moves people even when they don't know it. Mike Stern writes beautiful ballads - gorgeous melodies. Same with Pat Metheny - totally accessible stuff. Biggest selling LP on ECM? - Keith Jarrett's 'Koln Concert' - solo piano - who'd have thought it? Dave Brubeck's biggest hit is in 5:4 FFS!!. I play a regular gig where the entire set is sung in Portuguese. Goes down a storm with English audiences - we even have them singing along in a foreign language! People can take it when they hear it - they just never hear it anymore. Unless they are the sort of person who goes looking under rocks to see what's there. But, fundamentally, what makes a great jazz tune is what makes a great pop tune. Does it move you? If it doesn't. ditch it. 'I Wanna Dance With Somebody' don't do it for me even if Matt Garrsison is on bass! To be fair, I don't really like Matt Garrrison's stuff either. Good rock, bad rock, good jazz, bad jazz. Its all subjective but nothing to d owit inate accessibilty and everything to do with conditioning. Besides, jazz is better. It just is

From Holland's first solo LP (plastic, round things with a hole in).. some interesting use of double stops and 5:4 time but both readable and playable. Really interesting recording made in 1973 - the so-called dark years for jazz......