Bilbo

Noone spotted the best bit of the thing........

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='793690' date='Apr 1 2010, 08:22 PM']Bilbo - you got me fair and square ![/quote] I do apologise. My intentions were honourable

It's hard, mate. Although Joe could play it backwards.

[quote name='Marvin' post='793624' date='Apr 1 2010, 07:08 PM']Bilbo you do realise that you are not supposed to play after midday. [/quote] Depends which country you are in. The noon thing is UK only and I don't really give a rats'

Oops - wrong pdf. Will try again

This piece is unquestionably the hardest piece of music I have ever tried (and failed) to perform. It is a solo bass piece written, ironically, by a Welsh pianist (and my first theory teacher) Joe Stuessy (from a small village called Nanty Fychlan, north of Cardiff). Joe was an astonishing player and a real innovator. He derided gimmicks like slapping and tapping etc and advocated his student just focussed on using conventional techniques and complex modern harmonic theories to express themselves. Like many prophets, he was ‘shunned in his own land’ and, that part of Wales being very rural, he was unable to play very much in public. In truth, many of his compositions were so difficult to play, in this rural setting he often couldn’t find any musicians good enough to perform them – as soon as anyone got good enough, they left the area for Cardiff or London, wherever the bright lights took them (former sidemen include Lawrence Cottle, Percy Jones and Pino Palladino). He tried sending his music to various musicians to try and make a name for himself as a composer and arranger but their lack of commercial potential condemned them to the rejects bin. Joe got really depressed and started drinking (he used to drink deeply from a Diet Coke bottle when I had my lessons and I am convinced it was laced with vodka or something else. I couldn't tell). He died in the early 1990s. This is one is his compositions for solo bass which he gave me but, I have to say, I have never mastered it. It is so difficult, I can’t get passed the first few bars. It is designed to be played with a lone percussionist so the empty bars are not actually silence! It is called ‘E Elannod’ which is Welsh for ‘For Eleanor’. If anyone nails it, can they record it and credit Joe as composer? It would be cool to see some of his work out there at last. E Elannod – Joe Steussy – Bilbo's Bass Bites

[quote name='fatback' post='793472' date='Apr 1 2010, 04:44 PM']What about chord charts then? A useful half way house or the lazy man's read?[/quote] Neither. They are an established shorthand that require you to have considerable knowledge and experience to draw upon in order to use them properly. If you take a rock guitarist and put him in front of a jazz band with a chord chart saying C maj 7, Dmin7, Emin7, he will probably sound like a git, just the same as if you put a classical bassist in front of a rock band and counted her/im in. It requires more than the ability to read the chord chart i.e. recognise the chord names, but a profound understanding of chord voicings, genre traditions, groove types, harmonic theory, voice leading etc. It is not part of the hierarchy of reading at all per se but an alternative means of communicating. On their own, they are of limited value. Tied in with an experienced player, they can be a great way of making music.

[quote name='4 Strings' post='793097' date='Apr 1 2010, 11:15 AM']"The local shops were asking £2,200. I got mine from GAK in Brighton for £1, 499" There lies much of the problem. Local shops providing free hire for trying out gear before buying on-line or for bigger discount shops to make the sale. £700 difference is a big call (might the local shop have had a go at matching?) that sounds unbeatable, but I always try to buy local as I don't mind paying to have a local music shop in which I can try things etc.[/quote] I get that, I really do, but, in reality, I almost never try anything in music shops - haven't for at least 10 years. They almost never have anything I am interested in. I tried a Markbass amp/cab in Bass Merchant in Essex recently because I wanted to know if I could get a sound that could compete with my Eden without the weight. The answer was I couldn't so I walked away. Not their fault but certainly not mine. If I couldn't have tried it, I certainly wouldn't have bought it elsewhere. But, if I could save £700 by buying it elsewhere, I would have. Not because I am disloyal but because I can't AFFORD to throw away that much money to be 'loyal' to a perfect stranger. A tenner maybe, even £20 but £700? Not a chance. To be blunt, if they closed every music shop in East Anglia, I wouldn't notice. They have closed every cd shop except HMV (who I never go to) and it had no consequence for me at all and I buy upwards of a hundred cds a year. If they didn't cater for me (no jazz) and only catered for 12 year old girls, why should I worry? Virgin et al had forced me onto the internet years before they collapsed.

Years ago, in Fleet in Hampshire, I tried out an Epiphone Joe Pass. I was in the market for a hollow body jazz guitar and, whilst I loved the sound of an ES175, I thought to myself, I'm not good enough a player to justify that amount of outlay. So, I tried the Epihone and thought, yeah, that's cool. I'll get the money together to buy it. Whilst doing so, I got to try the real thing; a Gibson ES175. The difference, even to a lightwieght guitar player like me, was staggering and I had to have one. The local shops were asking £2,200. I got mine from GAK in Brighton for £1, 499. Buying gear is a complicated process and if I am shelling out between £1k and £3k (or more) on an instrument, I want to look at a few, and try some out. Odds are that I am NOT going to buy most of those I try but, if the deal is good and the instrument I WANT is available, I will buy. It is not MY role to support my local music shop! If that was the case, I would have to spend my life playing cheap nasty pointy guitars covered in flames. Its a myth - its their role to sell me stuff not my place to buy it, whatever it is. If they don't have what I want at a good price, I reserve the right to go elsewhere. Like most professionals, my 'tools' are not available in the high street. The problem is that there is no effective infrastructure for musical instruments over and above the beginner level (and even that is poorly catered for if you want to play anything other than trumpet, violin, viola or guitar. You want to play sax? - the local shops will have a choice of 2). If you need something unusual, you have to travel. OK, so we all go to Denmark Street. But if what we want is not there, where do we go next? Yes, we can spend days and weeks, even months travelling around the UK spending hundreds of pounds on FARES trying to find the instrument we want. Eventually, we commit to something, parting with the biggest sum of money most of us ever pay for anything other than a car or house, before realising that there was something else available that was better; if only we had known!! We then kick ourselves and live with the resulting GAS until we can get the money together to get the new bass/amp of our dreams. I understand the frustration music shops feel at the stream of people NOT buying their wares but, get real, why would anyone just go to their local provincial music shop and spend thousands on something without looking outside of their postcode area? Music fares are the best place to go to try gear. Everything under one roof

Most double bass players don't use their 3rd finger independently for the first few positions. Could be an omen?

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='791794' date='Mar 31 2010, 12:46 PM']It's not as if you're being recruited by a Sun Ra tribute band.[/quote] Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me Me

Can you read music? If not, learn Welcome!

[url="http://www.fodera.com/a_jackson.html"]http://www.fodera.com/a_jackson.html[/url] A thing of beauty. I would, in a shot.

To a point. Money would turn my head for a little while but not indefinitely. Also, for a mate, I would do stuff I am not committed to just to help them out. What I woudl be wary of is playing an alien genre poorly because I didn't know what I was doing - that would be harder to justify.

I had four this month too. Bad year so far. Only three so far in April. Grim....

Many of you know I work with offenders. One of the tools we use relates to enhancing thinking skills and to do that, it is necessary to understand how we think. One of the interesting aspects of this relates to the ways in which people justify their behaviour (any behaviour, even murder). There are all sorts of ways; denial, self deception, minimisation (I only steal for companies not from individuals, I only drove 300 yards, I had to get home because the kids were ill), justification (everyone does it, I drive better when I have had a drink, it was only a bit of puff etc). The important thing is that most offenders don't actually know they are doing this. Anyway, in looking at the way people think, it long ago dawned on me that these traits were not just about offending but about ALL behaviours. And, as with offenders, people generally don't know they are doing it. Think about people who diet, who give up smoking, who shop with credit cards etc. They will talk themselves into it even though they know it is ultimately harmful. Relating this to the topic under discussion, what we have here (in general terms; this is not an attack on anyone), we have a situation where many members of the musical community seek to find ways to justify their decisions so they can still feel ok about their abilities. When the likes of the Major, Doddy, Jakesbass and myself advocate for musical literacy, there are always those who respond with the 'X is great and he can't read' argument, or the 'I knew a guy who could read but couldn't groove' position, or 'readers don't play with good feel' etc etc. The arguments presented are what I would call justifications, position statements that allow individuals who haven't learned to read to justify their lack of a well established, legitimate and tried and tested skill. They avoid the simple 'I can't read because I can't read' admission in favour of 'I can't read because I don't need to', 'its a waste of time', 'it will ruin my feel', 'it will undermine my creativity', 'I don't need it', 'it will undermine my originality', 'it will make me lazy', 'it will ruin my ability to play by ear' - its all b/s. Its not rocket science. Readers who can't improvise can't improvise because they haven't learned how, not because they can read. Classical musicians can't play funk or jazz because they haven't spent time with the genres, not because they can read. There is no causal link between reading dots and any musical shortcoming whatsoever. People who can read can do something others cannot and will get gig unavailable to others - end of. It doesn't mean that others can't do something that the reader can't do; the two things are unrelated. If you can read, you can read. No more and no less. Its a skill that is worth acquiring - and, incidentally, is of considerably more use than double thumbing, tapping, raking or crimping. You wil get calls for gigs you wouldn't have got before (of course you didn't need it before. Noone would call you for a reading gig if you couldn't read). I can see NO reason why anyone who can read would tell someone who couldn't read to learn to do so so that they would be worse musicians. I CAN see why people are dismissive of the skill; if YOU don't learn, they don't have to feel bad about their own musical illiteracy and, more to the point, YOU won't get a gig in place of them. Do it. Start now.

Image is very important; not in the glossy celebrity pretty boy sense but in the sense that we want to create an impression, even if its simple professionalism (suit and tie for a function, dj for a wedding, casual for a festival etc). Turning up with egg down your shirt and holes in the arse of your jeans won't cut it. Also, wearing a MOtorhead t-shirt for a jazz gig can be cool if its ironic and crass if its disrespectful to the bandleader. Its a matter of personality, I guess. Image over substance is what offends, I believe. Looking the part but not delivering - like many of our 'autotune' generation. IME, a bass that is good, looks good. The ones that fail are the pointy, black skull featuring, shape of a gun, pink flower, polka dot ones. A polka dot finish on a Les Paul, however, is image AND substance. If the money has gone into the finish instead of the guts of an instrument, it will show. If the money has gone on image AND content, thats ok.

Its also helpful to think in terms of the gaps between the notes also. It is so easy to get into the stream of consciousness string of sixteenths idea. Yu can, if you have a good accompanist, leave lots of space to make you ideas stand out. Its not about being a saxophone player, its about being a bass player. Don't think of out playing everyone else; think of out musicking them

[quote name='bassace' post='790609' date='Mar 30 2010, 02:13 PM']Well done Bilbo. Did you go home smiling - I bet you did![/quote] As the great Alan Freeman said 'Not arf'!!!! Now I am at the point where I am getting frustrated at any time NOT spent playing the bass. Now I know I can actually do it, I want to get as good as I can at it. One of the great hurdles, I find, is the fact that you go from being a credible/good electric player to being a real beginner on the double bass in one moment. I can pretty much hold my own in most settings on the Wal but struggle to play anything other than triads on the upright. What does transfer is your musicality so I have that as a starting point but, technically, its like starting all over again. But its good to revisit the basics again.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='790458' date='Mar 30 2010, 11:58 AM']Nice one Bilbo! That's a lot of playing for a debut.[/quote] It felt like it, it really did and I was sweating like a blacksmith at noon on a summers day in Death Valley. My strategy was to keep going until blisters were a possiblity then pick up the Wal. But, after two sets, my fingers weren't even sore. Halfway throught the third I thought 'uh-oh', that familiar burning pain so I stopped. But, by then, I had already done twice as much as I had expected and some of the tempos were much faster than I had thought I was capable of so it was helpful to be pushed past my comfort zone. Staying focussed on maintaining good left hand fingering and not over playing with the right hand stood me in good stead. I rarely went above the fifth position and only went to the thumb once (ouch) but it was fit for purpose. As I said, it wasn't perfect by any means, but I didn't make a t** of myself either so here's to the future!!!

[quote name='jakesbass' post='790052' date='Mar 29 2010, 10:28 PM']I feel a quiet sense of pride... [/quote] And so you should. Were it not for you, all this would still be an 'I wish....'.