Bilbo

The music business is increasingly a playground for rich kids. These prices are not for ordinary working stiffs, they are for 'celebrities' and Saudi princes; people who have money to buy £1K handbags. The basses are good but a good player will sound great without one and a bad player will still sound bad with one. They are irrelevant.

I do bow to tip three or four times and then try it for size. Personally, I find it kind of makes more sense as your arco technique improves. Same with bow tension. It makes sense when it makes sense. My bow is a carbon fibre Finale French bow from String Emporium - improving all the time.

[quote name='silddx' post='950625' date='Sep 9 2010, 02:04 PM']Is it important that the audience appreciates that art?[/quote] It is important that the audience has a relationship with what is going on but what defines that relationship is a matter for them. If an artist plays to the gallery by assuming that they know what the gallery is seeking because it is what has been sought before, you get Simon Cowell. The music we all play, whether we like it or not, is subject to market forces. Its audience is self defining and the presence or absence of improvisation in bass parts is a miniscule part of that. Some people like background music to eat to, others want to dance. They will have different expectations and will react according to those expectations and not to the content of the performance.

There is a difference between improvisation that is 'making it up as you go along' and improvisation that is the intelligent, responsive and dynamic interaction of equals in a musical setting. The concept of a piece of music as an artefact, a 'thing' that is perfect and its reproduction a ceremony is only one model of music making. Some musics; jazz is only one, are as much a [i]process[/i] as they are an outcome. The art is in the doing of the thing and not in the thing that is done.

[quote name='BTS_Spacebass' post='941387' date='Aug 31 2010, 08:56 PM']There is one "rule" that cannot be broken. If it sounds good it is good.[/quote] If there is one thing that I have learned after gigging for 30 years, its that there are thousands of delusional musicians who have absolutely no idea that they are terrible. If it sounds good to them, it most certainly isn't. There are also plenty of musicians who think that a blues scale covers everything which it doesn't. If it sounds good, it may be but please don't rely on it unless you are absolutely sure of your ground.

Everyone knows that Canteloupe Island is on my 'won't play' list. Well, I got conned into doing it last night when it was called from the stage (it was not on the set list). And, I have to say, despite my hostility towards the tune, objectively speaking, it was utter sh*te......

Rufus Reid - The Evolving Bassist [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Evolving-Bassist-Rufus-Reid/dp/0967601509/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283518663&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Evolving-Bassist-R...8663&sr=1-1[/url] Ray Brown's Bass Method [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Browns-Method-Eagle-Large-Print/dp/0793594561/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283518608&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Browns-Method-Eagl...8608&sr=1-1[/url] F Simandl New Method for Double Bass - books one and two [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Method-Double-Bass-Book/dp/0825801524/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283518487&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Method-Double-...8487&sr=1-1[/url] [url="http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/New-Method-for-the-Double-Bass-Book-II/96088"]http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/New-Me...s-Book-II/96088[/url] Neil Tarlton's 'Beginning Scales' (short but very meaningful in terms of settign you up to do some work) and The Essentials of Sevick (bow orientated so may be of limited use with an EUB) [url="http://www.neiltarlton.com/"]http://www.neiltarlton.com/[/url]

Been preparing for a show and BottomEndian is right. Get Ready is a simple place to start, as is You Can't Hurry Love.

Like Starless, where I grew up there were no teachers, no books, no videos etc etc. So I too had to learn from records etc. Put me back two decades.

Joe's point is a valid one. In order to teach, you need to establish what it is the student wants to learn. If they are happy to thump away in a metal band, do you really need to discuss advanced harmonic concepts like quartal harmony? I guess there is a fundamental difference with bass playing over (most) other musical disciplines. Most conventional musical instruments are initially taught to children who are 'forced' (or at least coerced) to go for lessons by their parents. Most bass players start because they, as independent thinkers, [b]choose[/b] to, probably as teenagers. More to the point, many teenagers would actually be discouraged from spending time with the bass as it would take them away from the 'important' things like GCSEs. Most classical students don't start out with the ambition of being a 'popstar' and the acceptability of the genre supports the investment in tuition. Most parents would probably assume that their bass player children are just fantasists and shouldn't be encouraged ('last year he wanted to be an astronaut'). This difference in motivation changes the whole dynamic of the teacher pupil relationship. Those who realise the value of proper training are often the children of musicians who either did or did not get that education.

[quote name='TGEvans' post='942533' date='Sep 1 2010, 07:39 PM']I need to send a Strat to my sister in Dublin.[/quote] Buy it a seat for £1 on Ryanair.

We have all said things on here we later regret. I reserve the right to be an arse at least once in a while. Perfection is merely aspirational!

I ohly have one electric bass (my Wal) and haven't really gigged with any other bass in over 24 years (I have had other basses just never used them more than once or twice each). I play jazz, funk, blues/rock, shows, Latin..... it does for all of them. I really do think a lot of the 'differences' between bass sounds are subtleties that escape me and probably 99% of the audience. There may be 1% of the people I play in front of thinking 'that would sound better on a Jazz/Precision/Sadowsky, Fodera, Alembic......' but I can't say it sways me from thinking that one good professional quality bass and a good professional amp with a flexible eq and a lot of headroom is all you need (you may [i]want[/i] more but that is all you [i]need[/i])

I don't think there is as much poor grammer as there is bad typing and worserer proof reading. I find that I often type the wrong word because my finger/muscle memory overides my conscious thought processes. However hard I try, I always type would as woudl and the as teh. I am sure there are many others but, in a nutshell, secretarial skills are no longer a specialism for which a small group of individuals are trained but an expectation of everyone. We all learn to type 'on the hoof' now and not in a systematic way and, whaddaya know, we are all found wanting.

To be fair, it can be frustrating finding teachers. I want a local arco teacher and can't find one that isn't an hour and an half's drive away minimum. Not a problem in itself but add £15+ in petrol to a £30 lesson and you really have to start thinking about affordability!!

My advice is to remember that you are starting out on a new journey not continuing the old one. THe first bass you have will probably be transitional. When I was looking (earlier this year) the more information I got, the more confused I was because everyone tells you that your technique/string choice/set up/bridge height/end pin all have a MASSIVE effect on your sound. That meant, in my simple world, that any bass I tried wouldn't sound like it could until I had been playing and fiddling with it for years. So, whatever bass I woudl try, I lacked the knowledge and skills to make it sound like it would in 3/6/9/12/24/36 months time. Every make of bass has someone out there saying 'great' and someone else saying 'crap'. Only 1 db player in a 1,000 has the bass they want. Everyone else is compromised by the amount of money they have or don't have. My advice? Just climb on board and enjoy the ride.... But, yes, do get a lesson first. Jakesbass is in Aldershot and he is a great teacher and totally approachable guy. I owe him a million for getting me started and can only emphasise that he will save you a lot of hassle (and potential pain) in the long run if you go to him [b]before[/b] you buy/start playing.

Noone seems to understand the concept of deferred gratification and the benefits of long term study any more. Its all 'want it, have it'. That and the fact that most kids never see a live musician until they think its too late to learn (i.e. after their 16th birthday). I have watched a couple of Glastonbury/Leeds/Reading acts over the last few days and the playing of most of them is pretty poor. No lessons needed to achieve the dizzy heights achieved by the Libertines' bass player .

Can't you have an adult conversation with your bandmates? They could audition the singer and have an adult conversation at the audition about direction/image/influences and, if there is mutual ground, make progress. It sounds as if some people here are throwing rocks in the way before they have all of the information (it may actually be that the best singer on the market could come to an audition, be offered the job and turn it down. The minute one musician meets another and plays, compromise is necessary. If there are three or four or more, the compromise is greater. These guys are shooting themselves in the foot by not spending time with these singers and need to be told that. If they still can't see the value is hearing them and meeting them, then you may need to think about other options. It all a big experiement but what is there to lose other than a few hours auditioning duff singers? Little to lose and much to gain.

IME, you can have the best tone in the world and one dodgy ride cymbal can completely wipe it out. Personally, I have no idea what anyone is talking about. I go to a shop, try an amp and, if I can get a good sound/volume I need out of it, I'm away. I have no idea what's 'under the bonnet'. Could be a squirrel on a running wheel for all I know. I think there are a lot of red herrings out there posing as facts.

Just learn the dots. Its much more effective and it gets you work. Tab is a child's toy, a shorthand that, because of its familiarity, initially makes more sense to the uninitiated but which is ultimately inadequate for the purpose it was invented. Put the toy away and get to work. It will reward you in the long run.

Did my gig with 'Whither Then'? on Sunday. I posted about it in the 'last night's gig' thread but, in short, it was everything I hoped it would be (except it wasn't original music). It was one of those gigs where I was the weakest player but held my own enough to keep the standard up. Everyone was buzzing at the end (even the audience) and we have been asked back. Real strong blowing, great grooves.... and I am there again this Sunday with the Brazilliance, the Latin band I play in.

My God! Thinking this through, I have just realised that I haven't gigged anything but my Wal and a Status Energy 6 for over 20 years and the Staus only went out half a dozen times! I played a Roscoe 5 when I tried out a Markbass rig at the Bass Merchant about a year ago but that was only for 15 minutes (no great shakes) and I have tried a couple of Warwicks but that was over 10 years ago. I tried an Alembic Epic at the Bass Centre in Birmingham around 1991 and a Yamaha TRB6 a couple of years before that in the Bass Centre in Wapping. Early on there was an Ibanez Musician bass I tried and a mate had a Fender Jazz custom job but I didn't like that very much. Maybe I need to get out more (actually, I don't try basses unless I am buying and I am never buying so why try them out ). So, in answer to the OP, I don't dislike anything really; I just like what I have and have no need to look elsewhere.

I get how this happens (I am not a family man) and everything does get in the way as you get older but that is one of the things I always say about reading the dots. It cuts down the need for rehearsals to a minimum whcih means better gigs with less time spent preparing. Keep a bass and use the time off to develop your reading to the point where you are ready to gig again when your kids no longer need you around so much (because that day will come ).

Run through the threads here under the double bass section, ez... its full of advice of the kind you are looking for.

Did my first gig with my own band 'Whither Then'? at The Fox Inn in Eastgate St. in Bury St Edmunds last Sunday. Quartet with a singing pianist, sax, bass and drums playing a fusion of jazz and 'Blue Note' funk. Monster players all 'round and an astonishing evenings jazz. One of the best jazz gigs I have ever done and certainly one of the best in a long while. Probably the best drummer I have ever played with (having never met him before, I find out he lives less than half a mile away from me), the best pianist I ever played with (Chris Ingham) and one of the strongest saxophone players I have ever played behind (Hertfordshire's Colin Watling). I guess that's what happens when you get to call the gig: you get the best players. Monster gig, real treat - did one set on double bass and got all blistered up so reverted to electric for the remainder of the evening (two more sets). Feel invigorated by it.