Bilbo

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='908080' date='Jul 28 2010, 12:22 PM']So where's a good, non boring, place for a non reading, no theory, never had a lesson, self taught chap to start?[/quote] Learn the names of all the notes on the neck.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='908076' date='Jul 28 2010, 12:17 PM']I can read music.[/quote] So find some charts chock full of syncopation and work with them.

Learn to read music.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='908048' date='Jul 28 2010, 11:59 AM']What is this "four finger tapping riff"?[/quote] It's Gonzobass's metaphor for 'some superficial party trick'. i.e students wanting to know a lick or trick that is of no intrinsic musical value but which [i]looks[/i] clever instead of learning something that is useful like a scale, arpeggio or chord.

I am now locked into that battle with double bass strings where I find I like them one minute and not the next and start talking myself into wanting Spiros or whatever. At the gig on Sunday, the E and A strings sounded HUGE and really growly but the D, G and C strings were a bit less satisfying. Was it me, was it the bass or was it the strings? Ask me again tomorrow and I will probably give you a different answer. More to the point, I felt, with hindsight, that the volume, poor sound and freneticism of the pianist undermined my own sound as I was concentrating on keeping up/in time rather than on the more musical aspects of the art. In short, I suspect I would have sounded better with more sensitive accompaniment. I think I need to concentrate on the music and let the sound develop as it does for now. As my technique beds in, I will get more of an idea of what works. It sounds pretty good on its own and in recordings so it is probably an amplification thing as much as a string thing. I also want to get it professionally set up but have to wait for the cash to present itself before I can proceed!!

Got a double bass stand off DJM. Tigermusic stand. Solid enough. £30 + p+p. Recommended it if anyone was considering it. Did another trio gig last Sunday - paino player couldn't play under 380 bpm so I have a nice blister for my trouble. Bless

I have just downloaded the 7 cd set by Wynton Marsalis Live at the Village Vanguard from itunes for £8.99. [b]That's 63 tunes for £9[/b]. Have it on the original cds but this is astonishing value and a fantastic listen so I now have it on my ipod! Great bass from Reginald Veal and Ben Wolfe but most of all great jazz played by a great, great band. Highly recommended.

FUN!! You haven't got time to have FUN!! Get to work....

Nothing!!! Why would everyone need to know any one line more than any other? If I never play a Motown/Stax line ever again, it would be too soon.... Personally, I find thousands of famous (and profoundly memorable) basslines so jaded by over-exposure that they bore me rigid. (oops argument already rehearsed and requisite scolding undertaken) Learn some scales (Major, Minor, Melodic Minor, Augmented, Diminished, Chromatic), play them in thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths and sevenths, in 3, 4, 5 note patterns - in all modes and all keys and there you have it. Its all under your fingers.

I have a spare 3/4 double bass soft cover that came with my bass (from Gedo Musik). It is black, has two shoulder straps and loads of pockets and handles etc. I already had a better one I had bought of ebay for the bass I was then using so this one is going begging. I took it off the bass as it arrived and never put it on again so it is pretty much as new. Can't be bothered to photograph it - its black and double bass shaped. What more can I say!! Say £35 inc P+P? Offers accepted First come first served, as it were.

I am only one month into arco playing and have both. i can already see the benefits of having some knowledge of both. The German fell more easily into my hands but the French is more, eh, controllable (?) soundwise. Its good fun exploring the mysteries of both. That's the fun of learning.

The rules are teh explanation and generally come after the fact. They, in turn, allow you to recreate the effect on the original piece that gave you inspiration. If you inspiration comes from somewhere outside of the Western harmonic tradition, there will not be a rule for it in that tradition and you will have to find a different way to make sense of it all. Other cultures have their own rules (ragas, flamenco, african etc) and, if you want to sound authentically Indian, Spanish or African, you willl need to understand the 'rules' of that game. If you don't, you will sound like one of those 'James Galway plays The Beatles' albums. Close but no cigar. I like the theory because I want to do this properly not play at it.

It would depend on what is before and what is after the phrase. I could play each note or barre it, depending on where it was on the neck, what the speed of the piece was etc.

I get that MM is a great player but I can pretty much categorically state that no piece of music that was slapped/popped has ever MOVED me. Impressed me, yes, but never moved me. I spent some time with the disciplines of slap/pop/tap but quickly realised I didn't actually like anything I was practising so I stopped. I find it a real turn off. I also find over-production a turn off and MM is one of the worst culprits for that. So, as I said, great player on many levels, just don't like the music.

I think this is more like 'Miles with Miller'. Miles had the arse with his record company through this period and let Miller write and play almost everything, just turning up to record his parts. I have nothing with Miller on - don't really like his 'thing' and seeing his name on a cd cover puts me off buying. Great player, crap music

If I believe there aren't any rules, I don't have to learn them. Then I can go to the pub or play on my Wii instead of studying. Great! I believe you. Thanks for the get out.... MUSTANG SAAALLLLYYYYYY!!!

TAxman told me that they are not really interested if you earn less than £1K. I declare everything to be above board (I am in Probation) so I don't compromise myself. In all honesty, when you take off your petrol at 40p per mile and all you gear, the profits are pitiful. I actually have got rebates more often than I have paid tax so I would declare if I were you. Its really easy to do on-line and doesn't take that long. PM me if you want more detail on how to go about it.

Stuck the Evah's on this afternoon. First thoughts are it is warmer but not louder so I will try a professional set up next (I had to fit the bridge myself on delivery and may have missed something). Arco is easier with the new strings though. Am using a Finale Carbon Fiber French bow and the German bow that came with the bass. The German is easier to use but the French soounds better so I will stick with it. Using the Simandl and a couple of books by Neil Tarlton inc one on the Sevcik method of studying bowing technique. I like the logic and it seems to be paying dividends as my arco playing is improving after only two weeks.

If you read, you work more. If you don't, learn now - its not hard. Contact Jakesbass in Aldershot for lessons if you need to learn to read. Find a big band (contacts with 28 other musicians overnight). There are a couple over that way. Play everywhere and anywhere you can in the early days to make contacts but be careful not to work too publicly with terrible musicians that make you sound bad - you can get a bad rep if you are not at least a little discerning. Contact other bass players to see if there is any dep work - pretty much every good gig I have had has been someone elses cast off. And keep at it.....the only way forward is to be tenacious. Don't give up when it gets tough. You aren't going to get kicked out of your house if you don't make the mortgage so get stuck in and make a living for yourself. Think of it as building a business. And pay your tax. Good luck, mate.

Have you looked inside (through the f holes) to see if there is anything in there indicating manufacturer or year of manufacture? After that, I can only recommend a formal evaluation by a specialist. PS old is good.

[quote name='mep' post='894191' date='Jul 13 2010, 09:35 PM']I had to learn this track when I was at the Bass Institute and have since taught it to some of my students when I feel they need something a bit more challenging. In fact today I was going through it with my latest student (a 40 year old female who still hasn't signed up to Bass Chat!). We started looking at the track a few weeks ago and unfortunatley it was one of those lesson where she took all of the hour just (about) to catch up to where she was last time. Hoepfully next lesson we'll get through the solo and D section.[/quote] This may help (bearing in mind XB26354's alterations to my chords) [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=59948&hl=walk+between+the+raindrops"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...n+the+raindrops[/url]

[quote name='XB26354' post='893768' date='Jul 13 2010, 02:38 PM']In the end you can reach a destination by more than one route. You can choose to learn theory and read music or you can choose not to. Depending on your goals you can be successful either way.[/quote] No disagreement there but I feel it is important to acknowledge that some routes are quicker than others, thereby making tinme available to make further journeys. If a learner can get as good as me in half the time, he will be better than me when he has spent as much time as me developing. Spending time finding solutions to problems already solved by others is inefficient. Didn't someone once say 'I was self taught but had a lousy teacher'? If you are self taught, you are, by definition, being taught by someone who knows no more than you do How can that be the best route to go down? And that is what I feel we have to advocate for, the best way to learn. If the alternatives were better, I would embrace them. They are not. They are simply a means of justifying the routes already taken by those who have already travelled that road. [quote name='XB26354' post='893768' date='Jul 13 2010, 02:38 PM']If you can't feel it and hear it as a part of you, the printed page will not help![/quote] Absolutely - but don't let that put you off learning what the printed page has to offer.

Whatever it is, it is a little piece of history. You are a lucky man.....and deservedly so.

[quote name='XB26354' post='892091' date='Jul 11 2010, 05:21 PM']The basic areas to master are (in general order of importance); 1) Timing and feel - without this you'll struggle as bass is fundamentally a rhythm instrument. 2) Ears - you need to be able to hear what music sounds like and see it on the bass. 3) Technique - if you can hear the idea but you can't play it, you'll have problems. Technique is purely a means to an end - to allow you to have the freedom to execute what you hear. 4) Theory and reading - not essential but very helpful both for self-education, and in the professional world of theatre, musical and the handful of pro reading gigs there are nowadays.[/quote] I just wanted to challange XB26354's list, not because I disagree with it but because I think it is worth pointing out a couple of things. Theory and reading music are flagged up here as a bit of an optional add on whilist technique, timing and feel and ears are given greater emphasis. The OP expressed a feeling that they wanted to go back to scratch because they could play 'bits of songs' etc. I think playing by ear and working on technique in isolation of theory (and, arguably, reading) has the potential to always leave the student frustrated at their limitations. A strong grounding in theory (supported by usable reading skills) will, in my view, provide a much deeper pool from which it draw inspiration. In short, learning theory and harmony will provide you will a lot of transferable information that learning 'Teen Town' by rote won't, however great the feel. [quote name='XB26354' post='892091' date='Jul 11 2010, 05:21 PM']If you want to be versatile and play lots of styles then try to listen to as much of the music in those styles as possible. With most forms of music and bass playing the answers are in the music you listen to. If you're at all serious about points 3 and 4 then I'd recommend a decent teacher, to save potentially years of wasted effort learning, unlearning and relearning stuff. If you just want to rock out better then get in a decent band if possible and play with better musicians so you can learn from them. Ultimately it's about what you really want from bass playing. You don't need all four to be successful, but without good timing and feel, and good ears, you may struggle to improve. You mention targets - these are best worked out and set by a teacher as someone needs to see exactly how/what you play, what you're good at and what needs work before suggesting anything.[/quote] A slightly confused message, if I may be so bold! If you develop a great feel, it will serve you well, I have no doubt, but, without understanding the mechanics of music, you will only be able to go so far with it and are likely to get frustrated in the longer term. Good ears are also, in my experience, another potential red herring. Those who explore the full range of scales, arpeggios and modes tend to have better ears than those that just listen to a lot of music. My advice is simple: ground your studies in theory and reading whilst simultaneously working on timing, feel and developing good ears. If you focus on time, feel and ear training, you will develop no knowledge of theory or develop any reading skills. If you work on theory and reading, you can ALSO develop good timing, great feel and great ears AT THE SAME TIME. Its a no brainer from where I am standing. And as for fun, I have said here before that I think it is overated. Not because I don't have it (I am THRILLED to sit there with my new double bass, a bow and page 1 of F. Simandl's book - ask the wife.....), but because I think people think hedonism is the only kind of fun to he had. Work can be fun. Learning can be fun. 'Fun' for its own sake can get a little boring.