Bilbo

I am perfectly happy with Cubase so go for it. A lot of the trouble you are experieincing is very common - its all about the technology. I found that an interface prolbem I had was around the ISO drivers. Like I knoew what and ISO driver was. I didn't know what an ISO was, never mind how to drive it (can you drive it on a standard licence?). Find someone local that knows about this stuff. Most people will help if they can. I got a techy piano player friend to tell me what to do.

I am so envious of you guys. I tried, I hurt, I moved on. My left hand still gives me trouble 6 years on and I have real trouble when my left hand is higher than my shoulder, which it would be a lot on most DB gigs (even to the point that, when I tune my Wal, I have to rest my arm between tuning the E & A strings because the muscles just can't hold that position for too long). So I try to may my electric do a similar job. I do ok but I really wish I could sound like Marc Johnson!

[quote name='griffonite' post='438294' date='Mar 18 2009, 02:32 PM']Mind you it's hard to tell but you look like a fairly well built bloke compared to me![/quote] Six Foot One and 16 stone. I guess its all relative

[quote name='XB26354' post='438202' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:51 PM']Oh and his solo albums are pretty awful musically [/quote] They have their moments and there are some very interesting things happening bass-wise but, as profound musical statements, they are not particularly successful.

[quote name='griffonite' post='437614' date='Mar 17 2009, 05:49 PM']I recently bought a 1980 Aria S.B 1000 for £400 and it is every bit the equal of a Wal in quality[/quote] Having owned both, I am astonished by that remark.... are you sure your Wals have been real ones? Also, mine is not and never has been a 'neck diver' and I am again intrigued at the experiences being discussed. Maybe mine is the forgery I also don't find it excessively heavy - but then again, it has been around my neck for 23 years so I guess I am used to it now.

[quote name='The Funk' post='437923' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:20 AM']Absolutely. If he ever wonders why he's not more in demand, those might be two of the answers. If he ever wonders why Tal Wilkenfraud gets better gigs than he does, again, that might be two of the answers. At least she looks like she's enjoying herself, goofy as she looks.[/quote] JB has always struggled with that aspect of music around musicality. He is a tech-head and, despite his protestations to the contrary, he still thinks that it is all about technique. His abilities to play the bass chordally are exceptional but he doesn't get that the sound of a bass playing chords is commercially unpopular - in short, it really only appeals to other bass tech-heads who can point at him and go wow. His efforts to try and get himself w gig playing his chordal bass thing with Bonnie Riatt or Norah Jones show a lack of insight. If he believes that the sound of a bass playing chords and counter-melodies is attractive, then his integrity is admirable but I can't help feeling that his apparent inability to see the musical whole is his undoing. Objectively, his bass playing is not actually a particulalry attractive (i.e. pretty) sound and its addition to a Norah Jones track wouldn't enhance it. If Norah Jones poducers want chords, there are a million credible guitar players that will do the job better than JB and make a positive difference to the product. I have always wondered, if he is so set upon getting his bass onto songs like Riatt's et al, why he doesn't do a CD of music that features a vocalist instead of a string of gunslinging jazzers. But keeps on reeling out these bass-orientated fusion fests. He complains about producers not taking risks and yet fails to take those risks on teh cds he produces. I have only seen one Tal video and she is, frankly, more in the pocket than JB. Why would't she gig more? And yes, his image does militate against his commercial ambitions (as does mine - my audition for Take That resulted in a provisional offer of the gig but, as I refused to shave my beard off, they moved on - curses, foiled again!).

[quote name='BlackElan' post='437064' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:44 AM']Mine is a exact replica of the Elan Jason Newsted used during the Damaged Justice tour with Metallica in 89. If you have any questions about Newsted's Alembics please ask I have spoke with Alembic employees and reviewed enough hours of footage to know every last spec of each of his Alembics. I also have a very impressive collection of Aria Super Basses since I am a big Cliff Burton fan. I have quite a few original Black N Gold basses and a black SB1000 all original not reissues. Any questions about Cliff's Arias I can probably help.[/quote] 'Study Music not Musicians' - Lincoln Goines Welcome, Jason.

[quote name='Eight' post='437293' date='Mar 17 2009, 02:09 PM']If you play a fretted bass, then your instrument is based on the half-baked ideas they came up with.[/quote] I agree!!!

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='437280' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:59 PM']Most people aren't awesome like us, though, Bilbo. [/quote] Are they not? That's cos they aren't from Cwmbran (its the positive energy from the town centre tower block and the great seat of learning that is Croesyceiliog Comprehensive)

Or are waiting for the bass talent pixie to wave his (or her) dust in their direction! Yeeeay, the pixie! I actually don't get that working at music and fun are mutually exclusive. If fun is a manifestation of satisfaction, I get loads of it out of study. If I spent any time playing 'Guitar Hero', I would consider it to be wasted time and feel (mildly)frustrated, angry etc. So 'fun' for me and for many others is not to be found in frivolous nonsense but in focussed and rewarding activities. I have fun whilst I do things, I don't do things to have fun.

[quote name='Rich' post='437020' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:06 AM']Well, I believe I'm right in thinking that neither Mick Karn nor Pino Palladino can read a single note. This being the case, Mr.Berlin can take his view and cram it sideways.[/quote] Great as they both are, they are actually quite limited as players (as, ironically, is Jeff Berlin). I think the quantifiable 'success' of certain named individuals is no indicator of the best route to take. It is no more sensible than using blind chance as a justification of the validity of choosing to take the wrong route to get to your chosen destination because others have found it by chance. Relying on the good fortune of others to inform your decisions on how to best manage your own career seems a fools errand to me.

The probelm I have with many of the critics of this kind of learning is that many of them are missing a trick. Some of the techniques that are used by some of the bass stuntmen we all love to hate take a lot of time and energy to develop - in some cases years of dedicated practice. I think JBs (and others) point is that some of this energy and TIME should be redirected into concerted practice of the established tools of music and not running up dead ends. Learning a zillion individual licks probably takes just as long as learning the basic facts about music theory and learning to read dots. I think that there are a lot of players out there who WANT to learn how to play but, without good teachers, are wasting time, sometimes years, chasing the wrong things - not in a subjective sense but in an objective one. Learning to execute a Simpsons/Super Mario Brothers theme with two hands is a great party trick but surely that time could be better spent learning something that can be applied in a myriad of contexts and developing a marketable skill. As I recall, JBs biggest criticisms are levelled at those schools/dvds etc that 'teach' two handed tapping, double thumbing etc. If you look around you at the world of bass playing, these skills really are novelty tricks and of limited value in a practical sense. Its this that I agree with. If I had my time again, I would not have wasted as much time learning stuff that didn't matter. I consider it an obligation to share that insight and to say to young people, don't do what I did, use your time more wisely and be better than me.

[quote name='KevB' post='436343' date='Mar 16 2009, 05:31 PM']Are they rated as jazz or fusion or what and are they considered good by the proper jazz officianados? just mildly curious.[/quote] Jazz Rock or Fusion? Doesn't really matter. Jazz fans tend to see this stuff as marmite. I went through a phase where I was impressed but I was on my way somewhere and hadn't arrived yet. I still really like the first 2 RTF lps but the later stuff felt over arranged. But it has to be seen as a product of its time and it was a really creative era for fusion, before it got all blanded out by Sanborn and Kenny G.

Unbelievable - I was listening to that not 4 hours ago. It is a great CD. Have your heard Metheny's 'Map Of THe World'. No bass at all but its absolutely marvellous.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='436186' date='Mar 16 2009, 03:16 PM']What about the countless people who are happy blindly fumbling around in their bedrooms just for the fun of it?[/quote] If I wasn't a grown-up......

Wish you were right but watch this space!!

I just lifted this of Jeff berlin's MySpace page. I think he talks a lot of sense. 'Scott Thunes is best known as the bass player for Frank Zappa. He is also a teacher of MUSIC, not just instrument. Here is a couple of quotes from him from his comments in the April 2009 Bass Player magazine. Scott said, "I swear, I lost every adult student I ever had because I forced them to read music before I'd even think about teaching them that funky sh*t on the bass." He further said, "Who are these kids that just want to pick up an instrument and play? I never got that! An instrument was always an excuse to be a part of music, not an end in itself. If you don't understand music, then what's the point?" The man is right! I have to confess that I too, can't figure out why people decide to buy an instrument and then don't do the work to make it speak. Kids may protest doing things they have to do. But grown up adults? Here' some truth. Philosophies about how to play, when to play, what to play, are nonsense if there isn't any substance behind these musical decisions. Playing principles are crazy if the players themselves don’t have the musical tools to play. Even non-reading musicians who function in a musical style have learned their styles through constant playing, constant investigation of music, even if it wasn’t from lessons from a music teacher. Only players who don't know music, who don't spend time on their instrument, and who don't function in a musical style with any authenticity come up with questions and problems in playing. Period! I have said a million times that learning music solves all things. It does! The only lessons that you should pay for in my opinion is a lesson in content. This idea works in every single classroom situation in every single principle to be learned all over the world. Why don’t people in music understand this? Scott Thunes has found out that an awful lot of players don't do the work they are supposed to, that they are expected to do without compromise or lamenting the work that is there in front of them to do. It is their responsibility to work at their chosen craft, else, why choose it in the first place? This is what Scott and me to for that matter, can’t figure out? Why own a guitar if you don’t intend to produce music from it? If you don't learn music, you will not improve as a player. Sorry, it ain't my rules. God long ago laid out the plan for Mankind to work hard at their chosen craft if they wished to improve in it. Philosphy of playing is a humbug because philosophy cannot be used to coax music from you if you do not have the music to coax. Therefore, I say with no hesitation, if you love music, then work for it by only studying real, eternal, irrefutable, long standing musical facts and information on your instruments. Play gigs, but never pay money for gig lessons. If music is not the central core of any lesson that you are studying, then it is most likely a bogus lesson or philosophy , something that looks good on paper, but, guaranteed to fall short when directly applied to one's instrument. If 100% of all the great players in history got their skills through proven, undeniable methods and approaches to playing, then why does anybody need to change the rules? They work and they work perfectly. If it ain't broke.......... But, Scott Thunes has found a whole generation of guys who are so mis-led about how to become better players that it galls him that he has the right tools to help people and they won’t take them from him. As Rhett Butler said to Scarlett, "You are throwing away happiness with both hands and you don't even know it!" I have lost interest in JB's music but these philosophies are pretty much in tune with my own.

Good luck - Green Tea is a favourite!

Freelance - loads of jazz, bit of funk, increasing amount of Latin, 3 function bands, anything else that comes up.

Great post, Mikey. It all makes perfect sense.

I always used to do just that i.e. R 3 5 7 9 11 13. The technique requires you to move your hands quickly and accurately (and, if you play fretless, VERY accurately) and, for me, contributes a lot in terms of learning the geography of the neck.

[quote name='lowdown' post='430465' date='Mar 10 2009, 01:33 PM']Hey Bilbo, funny you should mention that.. I just got the Samual Adler stuff a few days ago - good stuff [ with audio eg's ] Garry[/quote] Its great, isn't it? Did you get the workbook?

[quote name='chris_b' post='430414' date='Mar 10 2009, 12:59 PM']They found that the music contained so many mistakes that they threw the books away and had to go back and relearn the numbers from the records.[/quote] The trouble is that, in the industry, a lot of these books are written by people who know piano and not necessarily people who know the full range of instruments and techniques used to execute them. If you look at books like Samuel Adler's 'Orchestration', they talk about all of the instruments and how to write for them (ranges, styles, techniques etc). So, when someone like John Williams writes for an orchestra, he is expected to cover all bases before any musicians get anywhere near the charts. The books you get for Popular Music are often done by piano players who are not actually that interesetd in the music they are transcribing, are on small budgets and short deadlines. So they kind of 'cobble' stuff together on until the product is 'good enough' and then let it out. They are not professional standard (i.e. proper arrangements) but 'have a go around the piano in the parlour' kind of thing. In my experience, good transcriptions are like gold dust. They are shared through good intentions mostly with a health warning (my version of etc).

Sorry: I'm from Walles....

Try two PZMz stuck to the walles on the sides of the room. ITs not studio quality but it has always worked for me. [url="http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/microphones/pzm.html"]http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/microphones/pzm.html[/url]