Bilbo

How tolerant you are How many fingers on my right hand? Six No, four; you are misguided, misinformed. daft. What the name of the tower by the Houses of Paliament? Big Ben. No, it's the Clock Tower at Westminster, Big Ben is the nickname for the Bell;you are misguided, misinformed. daft. Is Van Morrison's 'Moondance' good? Yes No, you are a pillock!!

You can achieve a lot by moving your right hand playing position between the bridge and the neck. Its a lot brighter when you pluck the strings near the bridge and a lot warmer as you move towards the neck (this applies to both fingers and pick). You will also need to change your eq when you put the pick down or pick it up as the whole chain of fingers/pick/eq/amp/speaker combination contributes to the overall sound. The secret is to experiment. Personally, I started on a pick because I was playing in HM bands but it quite quickly became apparant that the fingers option was more versatile. Its also one less thing to forget!

I actually disagree I agree that arguments around what 'sounds good' may be subjective when you are trying to decide whether Dave Holland's bass sounds better than Marc Johnson's or whether Count Basie's band is better than Weather Report but, when we are talking about whether 'Moondance' sounds good, anyone who thinks it does is, frankly, delusional. In a nutshell, if anyone tells me that 'Moondance' sounds good, I cannot but immediately dismiss them as a lightweight. Its a bit like telling an art critic that 'The Haywain' was the greatest painting of the Nineteeth Century. You flunked! And, no, I don't secretly like it. Its the popular music equivalent of a bad X-Factor audition and shoudl never be played anywhere. It sold a lot but, then again, so does plastic doo poo!

Sorry, Oscar, but on any objective level - it doesn't sound good. I agree that people will always disagree about what is the best work available and will split hairs over Stravinsky vs. Schoenberg, or Ellington vs. Mingus, But, on any scale whatsoever, 'Moondance' is not, was never and will never be 'good'. 'Popular', possibly, but 'good'; no. It serves only to prove the adage 'you can fool some of the people all of the time'.

Don't be knocking that scales and arpeggios s***. It's you friend; you must love it!

[quote name='KevB' post='373126' date='Jan 7 2009, 03:09 PM']A song various jazzers like to knock but secretly they'd all give their eye teeth to have written anything remotely as popular themselves. Personally I like it but I'm not a serious jazz buff. I also found it a nightmare to learn as per original version, all sorts of subtle variations going on which as a non reader and without a great ear made it tough for me. I still wasn't convinced I'd cracked it by the time I gave it up and can't rememebr it at all now. Anyone have a really accurate transcription of it (preferably tab)? The ones I found on thr web seemed close but not 100% correct, unfortunately in the exact places I was struggling to hear exactly what was going on with the bass myself![/quote] No disrespect, KevB, but WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR LIFE????????? There are approximately 7,345,123,789,576,456,234,998,544.34 pieces of music that you would be better off transcribing than this - no, hang on, its 7,345,123,789,576,456,234,998,545.34, I firgot Cage's '4 Minutes of Silence' . It is unmittigated drivel. It doesn't swing, the lines are not musical, are completely uninteresting, it is not, and never has been, jazz; its just remedial sh**e, sh**e, sh**e! Transcribing it serves not purpose. You will learn nothing of value. Stop it, now. I hate it.

Did a wedding once where the first dance was 'The Muppet Song' Respect!

Chris Brubeck, son of Dave.

[quote name='bassace' post='371808' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:52 AM']And the piano solo sounds as though the old dear down at the WI is playing it.[/quote] Whilst knitting.....

[quote name='rayfw' post='371773' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:31 AM']Christina Aguilera: Candyman (Another Stagg number. Crap song though which I'm going to try and persuade the band to drop)[/quote] Another one that is going onto my 'won't play' list. It's shocking and I cringe everytime anyone even [i]mentions[/i] it never mind actually [i]plays[/i] it...

Clearly it's just me. Whilst I would love to join you all in identifying a classic and legendary bass part utilising my newly acquired double thumbing technique, I have to be honest and admit that the first bassline I played in 2009, executed with flair and aplomb at 00.01 a.m. on January 1st, was 'Auld Lang Syne'. Why wouldn't it be?

[quote name='jakesbass' post='371665' date='Jan 6 2009, 09:50 AM']I used to borrow Steve (Berry's) flightcase so going to get it would usually involve lunch, Steve is a diamond, watch out for his kids now too they are forging ahead well in the music game....[/quote] Apparently, he was playing Gil Evans arrangements to them whilst they were still in the womb! I'm not joking!!

[quote name='jakesbass' post='371467' date='Jan 5 2009, 10:04 PM']"I felt like I could walk up to him and hit him with a sledge hammer and he wouldn't drop a beat"[/quote] I'm gonna try that, next time I see him....

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='371551' date='Jan 6 2009, 12:37 AM']I think I might chip in on this one... Stuart Zender was always my favourite player and Paul Turner, the new guy with Jamiroquai has an amazing feel and groove. Other notables for me would be Randy Hope Taylor, Dave Holland, Andy Rourke, Colin Greenwood for his remarkable ability to keep it simple and moving, Yolanda Charles, and particularly (most importantly) Pino Palladino. In regards to Dave Holland, he taught one of my lecturers upright for a while, who then went on to play with Mike Walker on a lot of gigs... Mike and Steve are both remarkable musicians, and have said they owe a lot to him.[/quote] Would that be Steve Berry? Met him once - what a lovely guy and really supportive. I know he had lessons with Dave Holland.

Here is my transcription of the Miles Davis trumpet solo on 'All Blues' from the classic Davis CD 'Kind Of Blue' - come on now, you've all got a copy, haven't you? The transcription needs to be interpreted as swing eighths. The subtlties of Davis'playing are almost impossible to notate so please see this as a guide rather than a perfect representation. The thing I like aboout this solo is that it shows how creative and musical a jazz soloist can be without excessive use of technique and accusations of 'random noodling'. The note/rest ratio here is massively in favour of silence and these notes could be executed by almost anyone. But the solo could only be Miles Dewey Davis.

I was just starting to play jazz in and around Cardiff when Pino 'broke' with Paul Young and Go West. He was highly thought of but I never met him or saw him play. I did meet his early Cardiff 'dep' whose name I cannot remember (Chris something?), who played a headless Status when they were 'the' bass to have, and was suitably impressed. Now my thoughts are that, like the other players on Jake's list, he is a capable player who delivers whatever he is required to play, be that complex funk grooves or straight blues shuffles. As for the rest of Jake’s list: Jimmy Johnson – Stan Getz, James Taylor, Billy Childs, Allan Holdsworth, Flim & The BBs, Eddie Daniels, Don Grusin, Earl Klugh, Ray Charles, Al Jarreau, Rod Stewart Anthony Jackson – Michel Camilo, Lee Ritenour, Steve Kahn, Chick Corea, Billy Cobham, Steely Dan, Al diMeola, Donald Fagan, Roberta Flack, Pat Metheny, Paul Simon, Mike Stern Darryll Jones – Rolling Stones, Sting, John Scofield, Steps Ahead Neil Stubenhaus - Elton John, Rod Stewart, Billy Joel, Frank Sinatra, Nancy Wilson, Patti LaBelle, Michael Bolton, Ricky Martin, Dan Fogelberg, John Fogerty, Cher, Joe Cocker, Bobby Caldwell, Taylor Dayne, Vince Gill, George Benson, Al Jarreau, Don Henley, Luis Miguel, Julio Iglesias, BB King, Michael McDonald, Bette Midler, Hanson, The Corrs, Milton Nascimento, Pointer Sisters, Eros Ramazzotti, Lee Ritenour, Lionel Richie, Diane Schuur, Tom Scott Marcus Miller – Miles Davis, David Sanborn Nathan East – Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Fourplay, Anita Baker, Babyface, Elton John, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Barbara Streisand, Celine Dion, Sting, Quincy Jones, Al Jarreau, Kenny Loggins, Herbie Hancock and B.B. King. He co-wrote the Number one hit song "Easy Lover" for Phil Collins and Philip Bailey John Patittucci – Chick Corea, Manhattan Transfer, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Michael Brecker, George Benson, Dizzy Gillespie, Was Not Was, Roby Duke, Dave Grusin, Natalie Cole, Bon Jovi, Queen Latifah, Sting, and Carly Simon Jimmy Haslip – The Yellowjackets, Bruce Hornsby, Rita Coolidge, Gino Vannelli, Tommy Bolin, Allan Holdsworth, Marilyn Scott, Chaka Khan, Al Jarreau, Donald Fagen and Anita Baker Will Lee - Bette Midler, The Brecker Brothers, Barry Manilow, Tatsuro Yamashita, Mariah Carey, Carly Simon, George Benson, Steely Dan, Donald Fagen, B.B. King, Cat Stevens, Michael Bolton, Ringo Starr, Gloria Estefan & the Miami Sound Machine, Cyndi Lauper, James Brown, Cher, Al Green, Billy Joel, Liza Minnelli, Frank Sinatra, Carl Perkins, KISS's Ace Frehley, Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross, David Sanborn, Spyro Gyra, Ricky Martin, Natalie Cole, Roy Buchanan Tom Barney – Steely Dan, Willie Weeks - Stevie Wonder, George Harrison, Eric Clapton, The Rolling Stones, Ronnie Wood, Aretha Franklin, Rod Stewart, Carly Simon, David Bowie, Gregg Allman, Michael McDonald, The Doobie Brothers, Kevin Chalfant, Hank Crawford, Wynonna Judd, Vince Gill, Richard and Linda Thompson, Don McLean and Lyle Lovett. He has also played with B.B. King, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Joe Walsh, Robert Cray, Bobby Womack, Jimmy Buffett, Bette Midler, Randy Newman, James Taylor, Billy Joel and John Mayer. And as for Lee Sklar – Air Supply, America, Peter Allen, Hoyt Axton, Barefoot Servants, Carole Bayer Sagar, Laura Branigan, Regina Belle, Stephen Bishop, Sarah Brightman, Jackson Browne, Glen Campbell, Kate Bush, Erci Carmen, Kim Carnes, David Cassidy, Ray Charles, Billy Cobham, Joe Cocker, Leonard Cohen, Phil Collins, Rita Coolidge, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, Neil Diamond, Dion, Donovan, The Doors, Randy Edelman, England Dan and John Ford Coley, Yvonne Elliman, Art Garfunkel, Vince Gill, Amy Grant, Arlo Guthrie, Sammy Hagar, Merle Haggard, Hall & Oates, Don Henley, Faith Hill, Roger Hodgson, Engelbert Humperdinck, Enrique Iglesias, Carole King, Kris Kristofferson, Lyle Lovett, Manhattan Transfer, Steve Lukather, James Taylor….OK. I give up: I’m boring myself now. I reckon ‘visible’ about covers it

[quote name='YouMa' post='370939' date='Jan 5 2009, 02:32 PM']The butt and oysters nice in the summer.[/quote] The Butt and Oyster is great all year round!!!

I do try!!

As a card carrying jazzer, I can say that this tune is the worst piece of remedial s***e ever to find its way onto the world's airwaves. It doesn't swing at all, anywhere, the solos are atrocious, Morrison drops nearly a whole bar in one place and is only able to avoid looking like a complete t** by the fact that the band, despite their complete lack of chops, manages to pick him up again. How this recording was ever allowed to see the light of day is an astonisihing inditement on the low production values that existed during that era. The producers (Van Morrison and Lewis Merenstein) should be ashamed of themselves (although Morrison's complete lack of self awareness would make this unlikely). The song (which I loath) is on my 'won't play' list, along with Canteloupe Island, Waternelon Man and Fever. But that's just me.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='370902' date='Jan 5 2009, 01:57 PM']Bilbo has kindly done it Mark so thanks for that Bilbo. I think Dave is at his improvisational and support best with Kenny Wheeler (helped by the fact that I think Kenny is a compositional genius) They have an affinity for each others gifts that make the music awe inspiring. My fave albums are Music for large and small ensembles, Angel Song and Flutterby Butterfly. Also the Metheny and Roy Haynes Question and answer Bilbo also mentioned is great.[/quote] You're right, Jake. You are me. Music For Large & Small is unquestionably one of my favourite LPs of all time (saw the band doing it live at Cardiff St David's Hall), I have written lyrics to 'Everybody's Song But My Own' off 'Flutterby Butterfly' (and done a gig with Stan Sultzman who is on that CD) and am even on the audience in the BBCs video of the Metheny/Holland/Haynes gig at Brecon! I have 'Angel Song' but haven't got into it as much as you clearly have. Are you stalking me or am I stalking you? PS - Mark. I would recommend Dave Holland's 'Extensions' CD as a potential start. 'Razor's Edge' is also great, as is 'Seeds of Time'. Other great sideman gigs include 'So Near, So Far' by Joe Henderson (another of my top 5), Joe Lovano's 'From The Soul' or 'Trio Fasconation Vol 1 & 2' (these two will demand a little more of you), Gary Burton's 'Like Minds' or Circle's 'Paris Concert' (marvelous). One of Holland's strengths is his consistency so, if any of teh list I copied takes your fancy, you will get a good insight into where he is coming from.

[quote name='The Funk' post='370839' date='Jan 5 2009, 12:50 PM']Off-topic, I didn't realise that Manring played with Hedges - can you point me in the direction of some of their best collaborations?[/quote] 1984 Aerial Boundaries (Windham Hill) 1986 Watching My Life Go By (Open Air) 1987 Live on the Double Planet (Windham Hill) 1990 Taproot (Windham Hill) 1996 Oracle (Windham Hill) 1999 Torched (Windham Hill) 2000 Michael Hedges – The Best Of Michael Hedges (Windham Hill) 2001 Beyond Boundaries – Guitar Solos (Windham Hill) 2003 Platinum & Gold Collection (RCA Victor) 2006 Pure Michael Hedges (RCA) The only one I have is 'Watching My Life Go By' - Manring only appears on a couple of tracks and is very understated so you may be disappointed (almost everyone here could have done these bass parts).

[quote name='mcgraham' post='370828' date='Jan 5 2009, 12:37 PM']Jake, any suggestions on a Dave Holland album that I should assimilate into my brain?[/quote] Any of the attached...... Music from Two Basses (with Barre Phillips) - 1971 - ECM Conference of the Birds - 1972 - ECM Cloud Dance - 1975 - ECM Sam Rivers/Dave Holland, Vol. 1 - 1976 - Improvising Artists Sam Rivers/Dave Holland, Vol. 2 - 1976 - Improvising Artists Emerald Tears - 1977 - ECM Life Cycle - 1982 - ECM Jumpin' In - 1983 - ECM Seeds of Time - 1984 - ECM The Razor's Edge - 1987 - ECM Triplicate - 1988 - ECM Extensions - 1989 - ECM Question and Answer - 1990 - collaboration with Pat Metheny and Roy Haynes Ones All - 1993 - Intuition Dream of the Elders - 1995 - ECM Points of View - 1998 - ECM Prime Directive - 2000 - ECM Not for Nothin' - 2001 - ECM What Goes Around - 2002 - ECM Extended Play: Live at Birdland - 2003 - ECM Overtime - 2005 - Dare2 Critical Mass - 2006 - Dare2 Pass It On - 2008 - Dare2 In groups or as sideman Miles Davis, Filles de Kilimanjaro (1968) Miles Davis, In a Silent Way (1969) Miles Davis, 1969 Miles - Festiva De Juan Pins (1969) Miles Davis, Bitches Brew (1969) Miles Davis, Live at the Fillmore East, March 7, 1970: It's About That Time (1970) Miles Davis, Miles Davis at Fillmore: Live at the Fillmore East (1970) Circle, A.R.C. (1970) ECM Circle, Paris Concert (1971) ECM Anthony Braxton, New York, Fall 1974 (1974) Arista Anthony Braxton, Five Pieces (1975) (1975) Arista Anthony Braxton, Anthony Braxton Live (1975) Arista Anthony Braxton, The Montreux/Berlin Concerts [live] (1975) Arista Anthony Braxton, Quartet (Dortmund) [live] (1976) HatART Kenny Wheeler, Music For LArge and Small Ensembles Kenny Wheeler, Gnu High (1975) ECM Kenny Wheeler, Deer Wan (1977) ECM Gateway, Gateway (1975) ECM Gateway, Gateway 2 (1977) ECM Gateway, Homecoming (1994) ECM Gateway, In the Moment (1994) ECM Kenny Wheeler, Angel Song (1997) ECM Bill Frisell, Bill Frisell with Dave Holland and Elvin Jones (2001) Nonesuch Scolohofo, Oh! (2003) Blue Note Records Tomasz Stańko, Balladyna (1976) ECM 1071 PS This discography is SOOOOOOOOO incomplete!!!!

[quote name='YouMa' post='370755' date='Jan 5 2009, 11:31 AM']Waving from across the bay at shotley.[/quote] I used to have a flat at the Old Schoolhouse at Shotley Gate before a short stay at Chelmondiston - small world, huh?!

Lynot died on the same date as Paul Chambers, just 17 years later (Chambers died exactly 40 years ago yesterday).

[quote name='mcgraham' post='370766' date='Jan 5 2009, 11:40 AM']Agreed. Many solo bass pieces are (or were) better off played on these instruments due to timbre, pitch, how that's recognised by people's ears etc. But should we see these as limitations? Or simply a challenge to write, create and perform music on the bass that suits the timbre of the bass? I like to think the latter.[/quote] 100% agree - if it works better on the bass, it should be played on the bass. Most of Manrings stuff couldn't be played on anything other than his Hyperbass.