Bilbo

[quote name='Wil' post='325966' date='Nov 10 2008, 03:05 PM']Basically, what it boils down to is, if you don't appriciate jazz there is something wrong with you, you'll never be a great musician and you'll spend your life a mere shadow of your potential.[/quote] That's what you call defensive. Personally, my perspective is that, if you don't appreciate jazz, you are missing out on something wonderful, fresh and life affirming.

Different way of listening? How long have you got? Loosely speaking, if, say, Dave Gilmour plays the guitar solo on 'Comfortably Numb', he can pretty much guarantee what will happen behind him; the drums are pretty much set, the ryhythm is locked in, the bass notes are going to be here, here and here and the chords are the same as last time. In many rock settings, the solos are pre-determined and rehearsed to be performed 'like the record' but, even if they are improvised, it is generally on one level (NB these are simplifications and there are exceptions). When a jazz soloist is playing, they are taking part in a dialogue that is determined by their own contribution but is equally defined by those of their bandmates. If I play a phrase, the drummer may punctuate it, he may not. The piano player may echo my phrase or complete it with a phrase of his own. He may create a counterpoint; he may ignore it entirely and put in something that jars completely against it. Whatever happens, there are a complex series of choices being made as every second passes about who is playing which notes, chords scales and rhythms. A good jazz musician is listening to everyone of the musicians he is performaing with at all times, something that is actually mentally very difficult to do. A simile I have used before on this forum is it is like the difference between a speech and an conversation. One is easier to control and is pre-determined while the other can lead you almost anywhere the contributers want to take it. This is what makes jazz a high risk activity compared to most mainstream rehearsed music styles. I could go on all day about this (and probably will) but, in terms of 'a different way of listeing', I guess I mean that you are listening for something unusal instead of something familiar.

" Έχω ένα όνειρο ότι τέσσερα μικρά παιδιά μου μια ημέρα ζωντανή σε ένα έθνος όπου δεν θα κριθούν από το χρώμα του δέρματός τους, αλλά από το περιεχόμενο character." That's what jazz sounds like to you..... You don't get it because you haven't learned to hear it yet. Its not that you can't hear it; children who have no preconceptions about music react just as positively to jazz as they do anything else. But, if all you ever listen to is simple, diatonic blues-forms, you will struggle with something as complex as what Feraud is doing (alternatively, of course, it could be that it was dull!!). If you ever do get into it at any stage, it is amazing how two-dimensional all the stuff you used to like will sound. Its just a different way of listening and very rewarding. Of course, like all genres, some of it IS dull! PS the passage written in Greek above is; "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Someone that much of a beginner I would encourage to learn how to tune the instrument and then teach them some really basic bass parts to 'get them going'. I would then start to give them some basic information regarding names of strings and scales to give them something to pin them to.

Responsibly. I always tailor each lesson to the specific needs of the individual, using what motivates them to progress and tying it in with the core professional skills and knowledge. If some whats the intro to a Guns & Roses song, I will explain what key it is in and why and teach them what they want to know and why it works.

Yup. The frets will be in the wrong place.

I know that Jamerson's discography is comprehensive but is there a definitive list anywhere (Bilbo sees another opportunity to root around)? I am writing a biography on Paul Chambers and have researched his discography. It is 127 pages long and contains at least 300 lps - all within a career that lasted only 13 years. There are a lot of these guys out there; I understand that Ron Carter has done over 1,000 cds. I have over 70 cds with Dave Holland on and know that there are many more. I wonder who the most recorded bass player ever is/was? Will Lee has played with everyone but how many recordings has he done (genuine query - I know not)?

[quote name='tauzero' post='324159' date='Nov 7 2008, 01:05 PM']They nicked that idea off Jimi Hendrix. And back to the OP, it's nice to know that there's such a clear unambiguous expression as "in the pocket" which describes playing exactly on the beat either just ahead of or behind it, locked in perfectly with the drummer so you don't play exactly together but the drummer leads the bass who is leading the drummer, and now apparently you also need to have your horn on fire.[/quote] Not everything in the world can be clarified using words: Try and find a definitive explain of love? fear? elation? jazz? tomatos? that bit of skin under your nose? The written word is even worse: this doesn't work unless you actually say it out loud with the appropriate inflection.... You say tomato, I say tomato You say potato and I say potato Tomato, tomato, potato, potato Let's call the whole thing off. 'In the pocket' is just one of those things that defied clarity. But that's what makes it cool. Cool... now there's another one....

[quote name='The Funk' post='323520' date='Nov 6 2008, 04:06 PM']Ah, Bilbo. I think you got carried away in your description of what "in the pocket" means by including soulfulness. I don't think it does. Brecker was always in the pocket. Whether or not he played with any kind of soul or conveyed great emotion is not really the same question.[/quote] Fair play, TF. (But I still think Breckers pockets are a bit too tidy!!!) Simon Phillips is marvelous - does anyone remember Jon Anderson's 'Olympia' LP - some superb work from all players (inc Jack Bruce and John Giblin IIRC) but Phillips is a stand-out. Even his stuff on Michael Schenker's first LP is ground breaking rock drumming but, despite Phillips enormous skills, no-one but Bonham could have made 'Kashmir' sound like THAT! And that's what I understand as being 'in the pocket'.

[quote name='Soulfinger' post='323483' date='Nov 6 2008, 02:57 PM']Michael Brecker had everything you mentioned - soul, groove and complete mastery of the instrument. To me. he was one of the most in-the-pocket players ever.[/quote] John Coltrane was once said that evey sax player would sound like Stan Getz if they could. Brecker was undoubtedly a great player and is already sorely missed but soul? Maybe a bit but not like the great, greats. I once did a gig in Cardiff and the horn section from Lionel Hampton's big band dropped in! There were all these young guys playing theirs asses off and setting their horns on fire. Then this 60+ year old alto player got up and flattened them with one short solo that was DEEP. These young guys were SO enthralled by this older guy that they just sat there with grins on their faces. It was a real learning moment for me. I just think that, whilst Brecker was a great player, there are many that can't play nearly as 'well' as he could but can communicate more. PS - I have considerably more Brecker than Getz recordings!!

The Funk is right on the money - for you to actually play behind or ahead of the beat, you need to be sure that everyone around you knows where the beat is and manages their own contribution accordingly, not slowing down or speeding up because you are not playing metronomically! S'hard!

Its not about jazz, its about everything. I used jazz examples because I know them best but other examples were used to illustrate my point. John Bonham has nowhere near the technique of Simon Phillips but, in 'pocket' terms, Bonham was the greater player. Slash doesn't have anywhere near Malmsteen's technique but his 'groove' is much deeper. What I was referring to re: jazz was that the fact that a lot of jazz is cerebral means that it doesn't move most people. But, when a jazz performance finds the right 'pocket', it reaches more people because the 'pocket' is where its the most real. Try Lee Morgan's 'Sidewinder' or Blakey's 'Moanin''. They are great jazz but they are more than just great jazz. If its in the pocket, people respond, heads start to nod, people make eye contact with each other, even musician's feet start tapping If you don't know what 'in the pocket' means, keep playing. One day, you will find it and then you will know!

Like a great swing groove, its indefinable but, when you find it, its the BEST feeling. Its the 'magic' bit, the bit you can't buy, the bit that all the lessons you can every have and all the gear you can ever acquire won't make happen. Its the thing that some people have naturally, on the day they are born, and others spend their life making futile efforts trying to find. Its why Jeff Berlin isn't Aston 'Family Man' Barrett. Its why Steve Bailey isn't Steve Swallow. Its why Neils Henning Orsted Pederson isn't Ray Brown. Its soul. Its groove. Its the point where man and machine are operating in perfect harmony. Its why Michael Brecker and Bob Berg aren't Stan Getz and Paul Desmond. Its why Simon PHillips isn't John Bonham. Its why most people don't like jazz and why most jazz doesn't move most people. Its why Louis Armstrong is greater than Wynton Marsalis and why Slash is better than Yngwie J. Malmsteen. As Louis Armstrong once said 'if you have to ask..., you'll never know'

I would recommend you play with your ears and not your eyes! Violins, Violas, Cellos and Double Basses don't have lines and manage to stay in tune! The dots are a useful guide but, without your ears, you will be out of tune. I find, after 20+ years of playing only an unlined fretless bass that my relationship with the intonation is defined by my head space as much as the dots. If I am not concentrating (i.e. listening), the intonation slips very quickly into 'eek'. The Ashbory's are a special case and it doesn't help that, if I recall correctly, the intonation changes as the strings warm up (they may have nailed that; the last time I saw an Ashbory in the flesh was in 1987)!! But, as I said, the mechanics will only get you so far; you will always need to rely on your ears to fine tune. That won't change ever.

I had heard something but no details. Could be that he needed to lose weight for surgery (this was some years ago as Petrucciani died a while back).

When Jackson toured the UK with Michel Petrucianni, he was about 8-stone. Thin as a rake. Bizarre but he didn't look much like Eddie Murphy (more like a thin Anthony Jackson )

'Ladies Night in Buffalo' - Dave Lee Roth - the best thing Billy Sheehan ever did.

Not which Shire. THE Shire. where I come from! Bilbo Bag End Hobbiton The Shire Middle Earth

Its not deep, folks, just a goreat groove and high energy playing. Even jazz musicians can have fun.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='319723' date='Nov 1 2008, 05:56 PM']Songs without lyrics shouldn't be allowed to have names.[/quote] It has got lyrics; it was recorded by Manhattan Transfer for their 1983 album 'Bodies and Souls' .

He can be a bit of a easy target! But AJ is SO IN THE POCKET!

Go, big guy.... [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gUWIQ8nHTko&feature=related"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gUWIQ8nHTko&...feature=related[/url]

I don't think that was up to much and, for the record, that had nothing to do with jazz

I just make sure I turn up early so I can set up in a calm and collected state of mind with some chill time before the off. I really hate to get there, switch on and play straight away. Can't get into the Zone that way. I read that the Mahavishnu Orchestra used to ask for a minutes silence before they played and then hit the audience with a wall of sonic chaos! Cool