Bilbo

I can't see what you are doing is any different, Nathan. You have just called it something else. You say potato, I say potato....

I note that a lot of the posts here are about the purchase, selling, trading etc of gear - basses, amps, effects etc. Perfectly acceptable; I have got gear off here myself and very successfully. I particularly agree that buying effects is a legitmate form of experimentation and that there is no other readily accessible way of changing your sound so radically as the purchasing of a new effect. But my question is; how much of the GAS we experience is motivated by frustration at the shortcomings of our gear and how much from the frustrations that arise from our unhappiness with our playing and teh sound we can get with our own ability to use the eqs on the amps we have. I knew a guy once who loved guitars; he bought and sold them and tweaked actions and changed pick-ups and experimented with strings. His guitar playing was dreadful because he spent so much time playing with the technology that he never had time to practice the music. Like most of us, I covet many of the basses I see here and elsewhere and mutter under my breath about how unfair it is that I can't afford any of them. But then I ask myself; is it the gear I want or more time getting better with the gear I have got? If I could practice more, would I get to where I want to be because I could play as well as I can and, more to the point, would spending £10K on a new bass lead me on a fool's errand because my playing wouldn't actually improve because of it and, having spent the money, I would still feel the same frustration. I must practice more, I must practice more......

[url="http://www.eden-electronics.com/accessories/parts.asp"]http://www.eden-electronics.com/accessories/parts.asp[/url] First Line Distribution Ltd. 16 Teignbridge Business Centre, Cavalier Road Heathfield Industrial Estate, Newton Abbot Devon TQ12 6TZ Contact: Phone: +44 (0)1626 830336 Website: www.firstlinemusic.co.uk I need some too but only use the amp once every two months so its not a bog priority!

I used to buy Bass Player religiously when it first came out but, if you spend anytime reading these magazines, the interviews and reviews quickly all blend into one. So I stopped reading them. The only real downside is that you don't get to hear about new players until they become more mainstream but the is marginal becasue, as you get older, the influence of the new 'young lions' on your playing decreases because the music you play normally comes from a different place. Gearwise, I tend to buy by reputation not as a consequence of advertising or reviews and I get that 'word of mouth' from talking to people and listening to what other players have to say. The workshop forums tend to be polarised between the very basic 'major scale in thirds' type colums and the unplayable 'Michael Manring open tunings, double tapping on a fretless' column. So I became an autodidcat. Advertising is the main loss - you don't get to see what's out there - but I can't afford to buy it so does it matter? I think I would rather read a Jazzwise/Jazztimes/Downbeat type magazine as its the music that matters not the bass (oooer! Controversy!!)!

Haven't you got enough, already?

You learn ot do one. Then learn to do the other. Then learn to do both at the same time. In a nutshell, you need to work as hard at playing and singing at the same time as you did at doing them seperately. I get the impression that people think that, if you can do both, you can do both at the same time. Its not THAT hard to do but you do have to work at it (bit like the left and right hand on a piano).

S'all music, mate. Use them all and take it to a new level..

I once interviewed a bloke in the cells who had just been sentenced to 6 months prison. He hadn't told his wife he was in Court. So I had to ring her and tell her! Laugh a minute! Could be all sorts, mate. Doesn't anyone live near enough to him to visit and check him out? Maybe he's at home and a large wardrobe has fallen on him and he can't get it off so he can't get to the phone. He is slowly starving to death whilst you and your kin dither about. Or he could have nicked your bass and joined a Country and Western band and be on tour?

I don't need anyone to tell me. I just played like a dick. Last week; same venue, same drummer, different pianist - played great. This week, I played like a dick! (except for one solo on 'Moanin' which was ok)

Jazz trio gig. Played like a dick.

I am not convinved that relative or perfect pitch would help when Coltrane is throwing the Giant Steps changes at you at 200 bpm; the notes have passed before you can process them, as have the key centre and chord type! It would be like trying to recite Barack Obama's inauguration speech one second after hearing him give it (topical, or what?) Can anyone with perfect pitch give a view?

I think there is a lot of value in spending time practising what you are going to play (genius, eh?). A lot of jazzers turn up at gigs and do 'standards', some of which they know better than others, some of which they don't know at all and they are reading charts/dots. Whilst study will allow you to make huge progress in making the best of these 'opportunities', your ear will only really help you if you are at least superficially aware of the tunes structure and know the melody. Often, you will only know what mode to play after a little bit of trial and error. A couple of mashed choruses early on in a tune is not uncommon in small group jazz - you are nearer nailing it by the end but not always - I did a tune last night that I hadn't heard before and made a complete dog's breakfast out of it. Try 'jamming' a Wayne Shorter tune cold - ouch! The concept of a musician 'hearing' the changes and nailing it is shrouded in myth and it can feel sometimes as if those of us who can't nail 'Lush Life' by ear without hearing it first are, in some way, second rate. But the modes you use over specific chords are dependent on the logic of the composition. The logic of 'Giant Steps' is harder to 'hear' cold that that of, say, 'All Of Me' or 'Moanin' so, without practice and time spend with a piece, it is likely that you are going to make assumptions about the best choices and consequently flounder. The difference between a hard tune and an easy one is often little more than the amount of time you have spend with it. The choice of modes is no small part of that.

Is your transcription notes only or have you worked out the harmonies as well? Transcribing the notes a bass player plays only has limited value unless you are able to put it together with the composition's harmonic structure. I once transcribed Jeff Berlin's 'Bach ' solo off 'Pump It' but I didn't work out the harmony. I have always thought of that as a wasted opportunity on my part (I lost the transcription a long time ago and don't really want to do it again; you live & learn!)

Sorry if I have offended anyone (not really ) but I do think that playing music without knowledge and as a process of trial and error is a fools errand; like trying to learn a language just by going to cafes and ordering coffee. I work with lots of musicians, trained and untrained, and the educated ones are better; why would I believe any different. Anyway, dlloyd has got it covered but I just wanted to add another factor. If you know the modes, you can use them to create additional tension by using chromatic passing notes. If, however, you don't know the modes, the passing notes won't make sense and the logic of you lines will be fatally flawed. Horn players do this a lot; Coltrane's solo on 'Blue Trane' is a good example. There is a part where he plays a figure based on a Dorian minor but he uses leading notes that are not diatonic. Using the B as a lead in note; try this (played eighths or 16ths) against a Cmin7 B C Eb D Csharp D F Eb D Eb G F E(natural) F A G Fsharp G B A Gsharp A C B Asharp B D C etc. Half these notes are not in the Dorian mode but do help create a great sense of forward motion, of urgency and intensity. I will try and get this onto a pdf when I get a chance but have a go in the meantime and let me know how you get on. PS dlloyds altered dominant is one of the most useful scales for contemporary jazz. Marvelous!

[quote name='dlloyd' post='382785' date='Jan 16 2009, 08:19 PM']m7b5 surely?[/quote] Yup - edited accordingly

Yes, Alun. You are right. WIll amend! (trouble is I was doing it away from my bass)

Supplementary information: Chord scale for a Melodic minor scale in C C min/maj7 D m7 Eb Maj7sharp5 F 7sharp11 G 7 A m7b5 B m7b5 Chord scale for a Harmonic minor in C C min/Maj7 D m7b5 Eb Maj7sharp5 F min7 G 7b9 Ab Maj7sharp11 B dim This is off the top of my head so please correct me if I have got it wrong.

I have this. It is pretty much a must have for a developing jazzer and marvelous for advanced reading practice. RHythmically sophistiacted, interesting lines avoiding the comfort zones created by reading ordinary bass parts. Well worth the small change it costs to buy.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='380325' date='Jan 14 2009, 03:22 PM']Learning which notes from those scales serve bass playing and the music well is where the work lies in this subject.[/quote] Relatively easy to learn and a lifetime to master.

[quote name='Golchen' post='380004' date='Jan 14 2009, 09:43 AM']Bilbo: If you're still around - why do you use Mixo and Dorian? I assume that it's a case of Mixo for major chords and Dorian for minor, but how are you deciding that?[/quote] Mixolydian, I tend to use for dominant 7 chords (which has a major triad but NOT a major seventh - that woudl be the ). However, some dominant sevenths have extensions because they are not 5ths of a major scale but, say, 4th of a melodc minor (that would have a sharp 4/11). Broadly speaking, your core notes (chordal tones) define the name of a chord so F A C Eb would be F7 but the chords around it (i.e. its context) are what define your modal choices. So if the F7 resolves to a minor chord a 5th down, it would be more likely to have an alteration like a sharp 9 or flat 9 which would change your modal choice than if it resolved to a major. Dorian is just the most common minor mode in jazz (phrygian and aeolian less so). A good eample would be the opening 5 chords of 'All The Things You Are': Fm7 Bbm7 Eb7 Abmaj Dbmaj7 If you break down the modes; it can be interpreted as Aeolian minor, Dorian minor, Mixolydian, Ionian major, Lydian major. It is, however, just as easy t look at it as one key centre; Ab major. Its whatever makes you sound better, hipper, more edgy. Its all about choices - you could throw in blue notes, chrmoatics etc and make it sound really far out or you could stay with the Ab major and bore me rigid ; its those choices and the players intimacy with those options that makes for a creative and interesting improviser.

In an effort to be helpful, if any of you are experiencing difficulties with space or are considering going travelling etc, I would be perfectly willing to look after anyone's Wal Mk2 5-string Fretless free of charge for as long as you like. I would, of course, use it in order to ensure that the electronics don't seize up. Please PM me if I can be of any assitance .

If I play a 12 bar blues in F F///Bb///F////F/// Bb///Bb///F///D7/// Gm7///C7///F////F/// I would play F mixolydian for one bar followed by one bar of Bb mixolydian followed by 2 bars of F Mixolydian Then two bars of Bb Mixolydian, one bar of F mixolydian and on bar of D mixolydian Then one bar of G Dorian, one bar of C mixolydian and two bars of F mixolydian. Or if I was playing 'So What' by Miles Davis: 16 bars Dm, 8 bars Eb minor and 8 bars of Dm, I would base my lines and solos around 16 bars D Dorian, 8 bars Eb Dorian and 8 bars of D Dorian. That's abit of a simplifcatoion but its a good example.

'False Metal"????!!!! :lol: Who are the worst exponents of 'False Jazz'?: Kenny G? Van Morrison? Diana Krall?

I use them 100% of the time on everything thing I play and woudl consider anyone who doesn't know them to be floundering around in the dark, relatively speaking. A mode is simply a scale starting from a different point so a C major scale is CDEFGABC (also known as the Ionian mode) Its Dorian mode starts on the 2nd note of the major scale D = DEFGABCD Its Phrygian Mode on the 3rd/E = EFGABCDE Its Lydian mode on the 4th/F = FGABCDEF Mixolydian on the 5th/G = GABCDEFG Aeolian (relative minor) on the 6th/A = ABCDEFGBA Locrian on B/7th = BCDEFGAB And back to the C But its all still the C major scale. You can do this with every key centre so the Dorian mode of F is G, of B its Csharp and so on. You can do the same with the melodic minor scale etc and it works on the same principle. Its not as complicated as it sounds but very, very useful.

Its the music that matters, not the instruments. You play that guitar as much as you like, young Skywalker.... I used to hate Tele's but I played one recently that a guitar friend of mine had just bought and it played and sounded great. It has a rosewood fingerboard which would have made a difference for me as I have a preference for rosewood fingerboards on guitars. When I get around to buying a solidbody, I could be tempted.... PS Jazz is great!