Bilbo

[quote name='The Funk' post='485818' date='May 12 2009, 12:26 PM']While listening to some of the classic recordings of those three tunes, I can hear some of the band bringing in the changes slightly ahead of the bar when it should happen. Am I supposed to follow that or does that undermine what they're trying to do?[/quote] It is pretty rare for a pianist or guitar player to comp on the first beat of a bar; they do tend ot push to the beat by playing on the 4th swung off-beat (4 and). It helps push the tune alone, helps give it some momentum. The secret is for the bass player to stay on the beat and the drummer to accent the pusheed beat with the harmony instrument. The bass player can, on occasion, push too, creating a certain urgency to the groove, but this should not be overdone as it will get boring quickly.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='484714' date='May 11 2009, 12:08 AM']too much messing around rhythmically makes it sound like a mess.[/quote] Jake's right, but here's the rub. When you get the harmonies involved deep into your head, AND when you are playing with great players who you KNOW you can trust AND who trust you, AND you are playing in a conducive environment, you can get into some really advanced rhytmic stuff and play excruciatingly complex cross rhythms, knowing that it will resolve organically when its completes its cycle. Its all about tension and release but you've got to be ready for it. THAT is why you study, so your s*** is really together when you need it to be. The best thing to so in most situations, however, is as Jake says play straight four. I listen to a LOT of Paul Chambers (odd that...) and he hardly ever breaks things up like, say, Scott LaFaro or Dave Holland. When he swings he SWINGS....THAT was why he did 300+ lps in 13 years with the greatest players in the world (37 with Coltrane alone). Your job is to make the singer/frontline players sound good. Most rhythmic juggling doesn't do that and,if you over egg it, you won't get called back for more gigs.

I am self taught but that's not the point. I think its down to your learning style. I do books etc but did have a couple of lessons early on (Dan Quinton and Dudley Phillips). You need to find your own way but I would say that, teacher or not, you do most of the work yourself as there are no quick fixes. Teachers don't give you new skills by osmosis but by giving you the information you need to learn when you need to learn it and by stopping you from going up blind alleys and wasting time.

Don't worry, pip. I only found that out last year and I have been reading for nearly 20 years

A transcription of Steve Swallow's intro solo to his tune 'Let's Eat' off his cd 'The Real Book'. Its quite a fast tune and it is important to note that Swallow plays it with a pick (the phrasing works better that way but you can easily play it without). The composition is based on the chord changes to 'Softly As In The Morning Sunrise'.

They are all in the theory and technique section of the forum (as they are meant to help people with their reading practice)

So that' it. The value of jazz in 21st Century is a bowl full of p***. Good job this is only a bass players forum and not for musicians

Just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the transcriptions I have been putting up here over the last few months have now been downloaded a total of 354 times! Does my heart good to see that there are some people out there who are interested enough to have a gander. The most popular was Miles Davis' All Blues solo (63). Then Steve Swallow's 'Wrong Together' solo (45)and Dave Holland's 'Serenade' (41).

[quote name='Ray' post='482687' date='May 8 2009, 08:29 AM']shouldn't that be ii V I rather than II V I? [/quote] Yup.

It is best to think in terms of key centres rather then chords. The opening five chords of Scrapple, for instance, are all in the key of F major so, rather than thinking of each chord, you can approach it as a II V I in F major - one scale fits 5 chords. You go through the chart and look at sequences of chords in order to find the 'blocks' of chords in each key centre. When you look at these charts in this way, they become a bit less iintimidating (eventually )

This was the first jazz saxophone solo I ever transcribed - I chose it because it sounded great but also because it was playable on a bass in its entirity without too much trouble (tenor and alto sax solos tend to go outside of the range of the bass guitar). The track is off Gerry Mulligan's Cd 'Walk On The Water' [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Walk-Water-Gerry-Mulligan-Orchestra/dp/B000000PF5/ref=sr_1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Walk-Water-Gerry-M...000PF5/ref=sr_1[/url] Enjoy

I agree with everyone. No, really, I do. There has been some great debate here and we can all gain something from reading the whole thread. Several people have made the point the there are great musicians/artists who can/can't read and others have countered with examples of those that can't/can - superficially futile but. looking deeper, there are lessons to learn. More importantly, there is plenty of evidence that any barriers to writing, creating, composing, transcribing, orchestrating, producing, conducting and enjoying music can be overcome with time and effort, tenacity and will. Everyone here is testimony to that fact and those who are particularly heavily involved in music (pro or semo pro) have all had to overcome some pretty substantial hurdles in achieving their goals; learning to read, developing a good ear, communication skills, putting together a band, arranging for solo instruments, small groups, orchestras, film and tv, even computer games - reader or not, that's some tough stuff to deal with. I have my own views on reading music (already posted) but cannot negate Jakes argument about the 1,000s of musicians the world over who have developed astonishingly sophisticated musics without reading. Its a quantifiable fact. I guess my own thoughts relate to the specific challenges of being a musician in my own little piece of the world. Because I live in a quiet corner of the country, miles from anywhere where there are great improvising players I would love to work with, the only way I can see of creating anything of value is to do as much of it as I can myself and write it all down so, when I do get the chance to play it, I can do so without a lot of work. Working with readers means that I can get the job done quicker because that's how I work best. If you can do without, cool. As a semi-pro with a full-time day job, I just think its marvellous to be able to play really good, sophisticated stuff without hours of rehearsals and without having to fall back on tedious old covers all of the time. And I still think its a great learning tool. One other point to debate: the value of learning to read vs that of learning to SIGHT read a gig.

Oops - yep! I was thinking Bheki Mseleku's 'Celebration' (another great CD)! All these African's...

No - I'll just sit here in smug satisfaction

[quote name='Eight' post='478516' date='May 3 2009, 08:48 PM']Is the Branford Marsalis version a kind of jazz rendition of it then?[/quote] Not really but yes a bit It has a piano and saxophone solo but they are very short and in keeping with the composition. For the record, it doesn't swing! You can hear a tiny excerpt here [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Braggtown-Branford-Marsalis/dp/B000GQLBQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1241380411&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Braggtown-Branford...0411&sr=1-1[/url]

A chunk of Garcia Fons' 'Sueno Vivo'. Powerful line worth working on as an exercise.

Just the first three (or six) bars of Richard Bona's 'Mbanga Kumba', the last track off his 'Celebration' cd. Might save some of you some time if you want to work it out!

A short excerpt from Alain Caron's main bass line on the Uzeb tune 'Tribecca'. Bit of a finger buster but a great line.

The other day, after having enjoyed the piece for many months, I went to transcribe the bass part to 'O Solitude', a beautiful Purcell composition performed by Branford Marsalis on his 'Braggtown' cd. After a focussed listen, however, I realised that the bass part was only three bars long but repeated 32 or so times. The piece is deeply moving and a profoundly emotional piece. No mindless, complex noodling, just pure melody. So, here it is, the shortest 'full' bass transcription ever! In addition, I dug out an earlier transcription I did 85 years ago of the bass line to Weather Report's 'Mr. Gone' off the CD of the same name. This performance is just a four bar pattern repeating over and over (although I didn't count the time it repeats). Its a great way of enjoying playing along with Zawinuland Shorter without having to learn 'Havona'

[quote name='rslaing' post='477834' date='May 2 2009, 05:42 PM']I have learned my lesson today though, I certainly won't make any more comments unless it agrees with the majority,[/quote] Don't be doing that, mate. We need erudite and considered posts here to counter the general trends. I am often a minority opinion here but, as a jazzer, I know what its like to have no friends so no sweat!!

Why do people who know stuff always get called elitist by people who don't? People who can read generally value it (me included). But why, if I value something, am I accused of being elitist if I advocate for it? Its no different than advocating for Wal basses or Eden amps. It works for me. This is my fundamental position. I can read. It helps me learn and get better - I wish I could do it better (my skill level is probably about the same as Jake's). I think its a good idea to do it for reasons already stated. If you agree with the arguments presented by the readers represented here, go for it. If I can help in any way, I will. If you don't want to, fine. Like I give a rat's For the record, the person who got me to read by telling me 'you've got to' (in an enabling way) was saxophonist Iain Ballamy, one of the UK's finest improvising musicians. Ironic, eh? [url="http://www.ballamy.com/free.html"]http://www.ballamy.com/free.html[/url]

Came across this by accident. Nice playing all round. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y09B-6I5_sI&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y09B-6I5_sI...feature=related[/url]

Use of octaves is also effective as it gives you thinking time and is texturally different for repeating the same note. For example, in the line for Wynton Marsalis' 'Hestitation', which I transcribed and posted here, Ron Carter plays a root, fifth, down an octave, back up the octave, root, fifth, down the octave again, up the octave, root, fifth, root then chromatics through to scalar note choices. Its a variation on a conventional pedal tone but can sound great in the right place. Also rhythmic displacements of all of the above can create wonderful tension (Dave Holland does this a lot) i.e. simple harmonies made to sound complicated simply by moving off the pulse (I would experiment away from the bandstand before you try this stuff in public).

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='477072' date='May 1 2009, 02:49 PM']Given that I'm happy with my ever-evolving music career, do you consider me to be one of those poeple?[/quote] I have no opinion as I don't know how well you play or the nature of the work you do. But I will offer this. There are 1,000s of band's across this country, all trying for a record deal or some other form of professional 'break'. Some of them will get lucky, some won't but what I can say is that the one's that won't are a great deal easier to spot than those that will. Bad singers (a band's death knell), poor rhythm sections, weak material etc. Why do you think record companies often only sign singers and songwriters and not whole bands? If I look back through my career, the bands that have failed have failed because they are flawed, a fact any A& R man worth his salt will spot in 2 minutes; usually the problem is the singer but occasionally one or more weak players pulling the whole thing down. There is also the question of the material. A lot of it sucked, to a greater or lesser extent but, even when it was good, it was only good, not great. What is apparent is that many people are too easily satisfied with a level of playing that is merely adequate. Unmusical drummers are the most common (how hard can drumming for AC/DC actually be?); ego-centric guitar players that are driven by the wrong motives, bass players that drag, horn players that are out of tune etc etc. Trouble is, for many of us, its Hobson's choice: leave the band and do nothing. So we stay and put up with the medicority in the hope that a, it will improve, b, there will be a change resulting in an improvement or, c, something better will come along. As for BBC's query: I was listening to jazz before I learned to read so can only assume my direction of travel was already set. I am 100% confident that reading has helped me grow as a listener as much as it has a player but, no, I wouldn't still be playing Heavy Metal!