Bilbo

Depends what it is. If you learn your scales and intervals throughly, it is often easier to get something down because it is a variation on something you have already done. If its a new technique that's completely alien to you, it'll take a whole lot longer. If you can practice something repetetively over and over again for hours, its going to happen quicker than if you can try it for 15 minutes a day. Personally, I think there are some techniques that you have to really want to get into to warrant spending the time. I don't like two handed tapping so the time I would need to spend to get to do it like Michael Manring would be prohibitive for me. I am also not that fond of slapping although I can do that to a certain level. But to get it up to Wooten standards wouldn't be worth my time as I don't want to do that kind of stuff. Yet new Charlie Parker heads take me about 15 minutes because I have worked out so many and, consequently, they are all fairly accessible. Its horses for courses again. I once entered Donna Lee onto Sibelius backwards to see if it would sound like anything. I tried to learn it - you think its hard the right way round!! Great exercise tho

Jeff Berlin's version of 'Dixie' is cool - one of the last things he did that was worth hearing!!.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Johnson"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Johnson[/url] [url="http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Desires-Marc-Johnson/dp/B0000261H4"]http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Desires-Marc-Jo...n/dp/B0000261H4[/url] There is also some stuff on YouTube

Pots may be dealt with by a squirt of WD4O? - can't help with the internals, tho', I know NOTHING!

Have you got a dodgy lead?!!

Their first LP is in my top ten!

Not militaristic or prescriptive. I am not talking of college tuition (I have only had about five or six lessons in my life), I am talking about learning the instrument sufficiently well to play music on it. (I actually think think the college systems in the UK and US are about income generation not creating musicians. There are people in colleges in Essex that are passing degrees but who are objectively a disgrace to our craft on any level (can't count in, never mind hold a groove) yet they still pass. Is anybody inspecting these places?) We aren't disagreeing really. I guess I am just saying 'do it properly or not at all'. How you define doing it properly is a matter for you.

I had forgotten about that book, I have it somewhere. I'll get it out later and BBBURN! Great concepts well presented. That Scofield stuff was great/ Have you heard The Sound of Summer Running? Some great composing and lovely playing.

Just listening to The Paris Concert - Edition One by Bill Evans. Isn't Marc Johnson a great player? Saw him with John Taylor on Taylor's 60th birthday tour and his SOUND live was exactly like it is on all those fantastic ECM recordings with John Abercrombie - yeah, I know that is stating teh obvious but it sounds soooo great. His bass, apparently, was built while Bach was still alive and his bowed sound is the best I have ever heard. Johnson is a diamond. Hear him and grow!

[quote name='clauster' post='234311' date='Jul 7 2008, 05:19 PM']Aren't you both saying the same thing? It's informed musicality that's important rather than techical pyrotechnics for the sake of being flash?[/quote] I think, in the main, you are right, clauster. The difference is that I always advocate for the methodical study of an instrument and get irritated by people who are 'casual' about learning (my prejudice not anyone elses). I think siddx was coming down in favour of only needing to be as good as you need to be to enjoy yourself; is that right, siddx? My fear is always that there are people out there, including major artists, who, for reaons relating to their image, advocate for a sloppy approach to learning. Whilst this may be ok in certain circumstances (hobbyists?) and for certain people (millionaire bass players who are just not very good), it sends a destructive message to young learners that they could unconsciously use to justify laziness and attempts to take short cuts to nowhere (e.g. tab vs notation, practice vs playing etc). It can put people back years. Some people aren't bothered by any of this but I hear of so many people that used to play an instrument but stopped due to poor experiences. Seems a waste to me.

That squeezing balls stuff is a waset of time - hte strength you need to play the bass was in your hands by the time you were 3 years old. You need to look at your technique, particularly your wrists - are they straight? A bent wrist constricts nerves and vessels etc and doesn't help with managing pain. Do you need to wear your bass differently, higher or lower? Alexander technique is very good for this kind of thing; it makes you focus your attention on the detail of your playing techniques and can provide you with comfortable solutions. But, first and foremost, if it hurts, stop doing it. Hands takes a long time to recover and you don't want to do too much damage trying to 'work through the pain'. My hands have been hurting for 8 years and occasionally, on a gig, I have to move positions just to manage the pain on repetetive parts (eg playing an ostinato in C on the E-string instead of the A). The pains rarely surface when I play jazz because you tend not to stay in one place on the neck for very long so RSI is less likely. Plus it is generally quieter and less physical music anyway so is more forgiving. Maybe that's the answer - play more Jazz!

[quote name='silddx' post='234278' date='Jul 7 2008, 04:45 PM'][i][/i] If I criticised [u]most [/u]jazz bands for having absolutely no marketing nous, no idea of how to promote themselves, having the naffest band names based on dreadful puns, and equally naff and meaningless lyrics, would you think it was important to learn those skills or improve those standards? If you said it's not necessary and I said "let's vote for idiocy", how would you feel? It's horses for courses, old thing.[/quote] I probably deserved most of that

You do, bremen. You need the appropriate skill level to get the job done. THAT is what makes great technique - in my experience, it only becomes 'technical' if the skills used are more advanced or the ear more sophisticated than those of the people who criticise others for being too 'technical'. I will accept that I metaphorically bit silddx's virtual head off and I apologise (to him/her) but I think there is too much lashing out at people who have a sophisticated perspective on music by those who think its 'magic', play what they 'feel' and 'entertain' people rather than play the music as well as it can be played. This discussion is about players who have had the most negative impact upon bass players. I personally think that the constant dumbing down of skills to merely 'adequate' is counter-productive and undermines the effort of those players (of all genres of music) who put some effort into dealing with their music. It makes bad, lazy players and serves no-one, least of all the audience. Nobody said anything about Julliard (trust me, you don't need to go to college to learn this stuff - most of the best people we all listen to didn't) but that doesn't mean you shouldn't nail this stuff properly. [i]That[/i] is a negative trait that should be challanged Anyway, I've strayed off-topic again (moi?) so will get back in my box.

Great - lets all advocate for idiocy. I suggest a Master Class on the note of E, followed by a session on A and, for the more advanced player, a week long seminar on D. We can then look at the gaps between them and then we can groooooove. My advice - never listen to anyone that argues that doing less work will make you a better player.

What I liked about his duo CD was it wasn't a 'bass' cd but a cd of great songs played in duet with a bass and a singer. Particularly liked Aaron Neville's 'Stardust' and Cheryl Bentyne's 'Angel Eyes'

[quote name='alexclaber' post='234047' date='Jul 7 2008, 11:59 AM']but almost like a jazz drummer in his approach.[/quote] Steady on!

Tough question this because the conscious contributions that individuals have made through their playing has primarily been to the music they make and not to 'bass playing' per se. Any influence they have had on the bass play fraternity has been peripheral to their core business but, in some cases, has become greater than the popularity of their [i]actual[/i] music (Wooten is a great example). But its not their fault. Our 'I want, I get' culture extends to musicianship as much as it does Nike trainers and X-Boxes. Learners like the sound of Flea, Fieldy, Jaco, Claypool and buy DVDs and 'tab' books that give them the secrets of how to play like their idols. Most bass playing is not that hard to execute; compared to a rudimentary piano piece, for instance, the technical chops required to play like Flea are a joke. The consequence is that bass players particularly can develop what appear to be quite sophisticated technical skills without having the education and discipline required to know [i]when[/i] to used them. The technical skills get applauded at jam sessions, gigs etc and the learner starts to receive affirmation about their developing technique and focusses on this aspect of their playing during their practice time. Not harmony, melody, rhythm, reading, orchestration or arranging - technique for its own sake. The most negatively influential bass players are, therefore, the ones whose playing, when copied, delivers the WOW factor to a developing player without the need to study properly. The low input, high return stuff. I don't blame them; I blame the part of the industry that sells these superficial 'quick fix' solutions to gullible kids. [b]I blame the guy that invented 'tabulation'. [/b] Remember: its not the notes that matter but the relationships between them.

I am an Eden Metro man and use it for Jazz - I have no problem with warmth and find the eq versatile enough for anything I have ever thought of. I find the secret is in the bass and in having strings that are older than some of the players on this forum!

Latin gig in Peterborough - dogs breakfast in terms of organisation and so, after starting to play 3 hours after we should have, we got home at 6 a.m. All to an audience that numbers less than 30. And the in-house PA gave us a dreadful on-stage sound - too loud and no definition. Al round sucksville.

When I was into metal and seeing them live (Paul Di'annio was still the singer - it was 1981), I though Harris was the DBs and, like you, was astonished by his fingerstyle playing. But, after plugging away for a couple of years, it became apparent that this was nothing special and all it took was a bit of practice, proper set up of amp and bass and the development of stamina. There's no secret, just keep at it.

www.narbeth.com/Halesworth2007/AlbinoCubana/Albino How do I look?

I'm gonna come at this from another angle. I accept what other people have said about basses, amps, eqs, fingers etc but I think that, in order to be in control of your sound, you need to deal with the following: your ears - your ability to recognise the constituent parts of a sound, recognise what is right and wrong about the sound you are hearing and being able to replicate the details of your sound using the available technology (i.e your sound is only your sound if you can recreate it at a pinch - otherwise, its just a sound) your mind - you need to develop an adult relationship with your critical senses (how does it sound tonight? Is it as good as it can be with the available gear? have I soundchecked properly? A bad attitude to this area of your practice will undermine your sound - the most obvious example being 'I'll use this amp because its lighter to carry despite the fact that it doesn't sound as good as the other one' - understandable but potentially counter-productive) where you set up on stage the room, the nature of the stage/floor coverings etc the drummers sound (in jazz, the wrong ride cymbal can KILL the bass sound) the guitar players sound the piano/keyboard players sound the room the room the room oh, and if I forget to mention it, the room. Learn to control the rooms you play in and you will find nirvana (please, no Cobain jokes).

Absolutely - a 'who is the slowest bass player in jazz' thread. Charlie Haden! Did you ever hear Marc Johnson's 2nd Bass Desires LP 'Second Sight'? There is a tune on there (can't remember which) which is the slowest groove I have ever heard. Much harder than be-bop. That kind of feedback from Mike Walker would make my day. As Jim Mullen once said of me; 'who?'

PM'd Rodby is another of my favourites. I love going back to some of his Metheny stuff and just listenig to his tone and time feel. I have a love/hate relationship with the Metehny Group cd 'We Live Here' because of teh core rhythms but Rodby's bass sound on that cd is awesome. Like Steve Swallow, he gets the job done without the unnecessary fireworks. THey can burn if they need to but recognise that it is rarely the most musical option. I wish I had their discipline! In fact, I wish a lot more people had it!!!