Bilbo

Some sort of stereo recorder (2 channel minimum) with two PZM microphones, one each side of the room. Have used that set-up many times and the overall sound is highly credibleand useful for listening back to a performance (although not good enough to release commercially - unless Jaco is on it, then you can release ANYTHING, however crap it sounds).

That's too weird to even contemplate. I think we have just both been conditioned by periods in Cardiff playing with Andy Maule. He just wants everyone to be Steve Rodby Anyway, you're a pro. What are you doing up this early?

I always found NHOP to be one of those people that played clever for the sake of it and not because it was musically valid - bit like John 'I'm gonna stick this 32-note fill in now whether you like it or not' McLaughlin. I also found Pederson's tone to be a bit thin/whiny But, when he keeps a lid on it, its cool. Just not one of my faves.

Like Hejira, love Shadows and Light. Agree that this is some of Jaco's most musical work (less testosterone!).

Yep - would you believe it is in the cassette player on my desk at work as we speak. Those string arrangements are great (I hadn't read the cover so hadn't clocked it was Mendoza - I did recognise Hancock and Shorter but no-one else - didn't even know it was done in the UK). I still rate 'Shadows and Light' as one of my top five of all time (LP not CD - the best tracks were omitted from the cd).

Dave Holland Quartet - Extended Play - this band are monster! Also his Critical Mass cd - different drummer but the drive is still there... Anything else by Dave Holland - he is one of the most consistent voices in jazz... Andrew Hill - Black Fire (Roy Haynes on drums - such energy)... Charlie Hunter - Right Now Move - some great grooves a la Medeski, Martin & Wood but with Curtis Fowlkes on trombone and John Ellis on sax/bass clarinet. Fernkky! Mingus Ah Um - how great is that CD?

I agree mcgraham. Where I differ from others is that I see that fact as an opportunity (this is not about my wanting to do 10 minute jazz odysseys). If they aren't really listening, why are we pandering to some bizarre collective sense of 'what they want'? If you are going to do covers, do interesting covers, do covers that stimulate AND educate (there are 1,000s), do covers that challenge people a little or a lot but do it knowingly. What I think people should NOT do is to take the top 20 covers of all time and just regurgitate them year on year on year (tweaked or otherwise). Last week I did 'Pick Up The Pieces' by the Average White Band (1974), 'Street Life' by the Crusaders (1979), 'Young Hearts Run Free' (1976), 'For Once In My Life' (1968), 'Knock On Wood' (1978) etc, etc. You know the drill. There must have been a million great (and very popular ) songs that have seen the light of day during the 20 to 30 years that have passed since then and yet we all keep trotting out these pliocene relics. I have this discussion all the time with punters (not AT gigs but in work, social settings etc) and the general consensus is that these types of bands are tired and dated. I also know a lot of people think that these endless tribute bands are a joke without a punchline. I can't argue with them.

[quote name='ianrunci' post='229724' date='Jun 30 2008, 02:13 PM']Cover bands are just a different alternative to a DJ, I can't see that ever changing. And personally I would rather see musicians get the work rather than DJs[/quote] Agreed but two wrongs don't make a right. Some musicians and I () were discussing this on Saturday (we were playing a wedding and the thing was running late (never!!!) so we had time to kill and we were discussing the 'give them what they want' philosophy. The question was asked 'how many 'functions' have you gone to as a guest (not as a player) where there was band playing'. The average amongst the 5 of us was one every two years. So, we asked, how can anyone even begin to know what the audience 'wants' when they are a, never asked and b, guaged from only 4 gigs a decade per punter? Is there some sort of mass hysteria where if a crowd exceeds 12, it functions like the Borg Collective and only wants 'Ain't Nobody', 'Respect' and 'Son of a Preacher Man'? We should be told. Personally, I think we are deluding ourselves and selling our audiences short with this stuff (but, then again, you knew I thought that, didn't you).

[b]I WILL SURVIIIIIIIIIIIVE!!!![/b]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='229709' date='Jun 30 2008, 02:01 PM']Unfortunately thats the way life is now, people like convenience. I doubt it will change[/quote] I think it does, quite regularly. People are out there watching bands and then quickly become aware that they are seeing the same thing again and again and eventually stop going and stay at home with Cds, DVDs and YouTube. So the audience in 2008 is not the same audience as in 2005; they have all gone home to their iPods. As a musician and music fan who spends 100s of hours and 1000s of pounds a year on music, I am amazed at how rare it is to see something that I want to go out to see/hear. I think this dumbing down is undermining the potential of live music and is, in the long run, counter-productive....

Sorry (and I am not being aggressive or confrontational here ) but that sounds like a justification. The levels of creativity required to re-arrange a cover so it is different but still recognisable are real (remember the Yes version of Paul Simon's 'America'?) but re-arrangements of that level of sophistication are relatively rare. Being blunt, I hear very few even remotely creative 'versions' in any of the 4/5 covers bands I play in/dep for. The only 'creative' bits are the bits where noone knows what to do with the instrumental bridge where the original features a horn section. Its a bit like saying 'every burger is different. I try to ensure that the burger is cooked to the customers exacting requirements, adding the appropriate amount of lettuce or gherkin to each dish with a clear intention to achieve culinary excellence. Some people think this is easy'!

[quote name='tauzero' post='229565' date='Jun 30 2008, 11:24 AM']Sinead O'Connor didn't write "Nothing compares 2 U", Prince did. So she's just an uncreative hack. Mott the Hoople didn't write "All the young dudes", David Bowie did. So they're just uncreative hacks. Patti Smith didn't write "Because the night", Bruce Springsteen did. So she's just an uncreative hack.[/quote] Hardly the point, is it? Doing a cover when you write most of your own stuff is completely different to doing only ever doing covers. Doing covers that everyone else also does all of the time places people well into the realms of uncreative hackdom. I did a gig on Saturday, best paid one in a month. 'I Will Survive'; 'Angels'; 'Signed, Sealed Delivered' - all the hits. Professional? Yes. Competent? Yes. Creative? - in no way whatsoever. It's the MacDonaldisation of music. Do you want fries with that?

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='227234' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:47 AM']of course not... it's because punk is angry music and you can't dance to it... well, there's only two dances, the Pogo and the other "dance" consisted of running full tilt into the center of the crowd... people don't want punk at functions... punk is for the kids in sweaty little dives that stink of pee... where they can go and be "different"... and escape from the "normals".[/quote] Punk wasn't just about that - it was about saying why? It was about questioning the status quo. It made people realise that music mattered again, for different reasons than in the 60s and early 70s but that it could make a difference. It impacted on our whole culture; news, comedy, art, dance, photography, sculpture. I didn't like the music and still don't but the fact that people gave a s***, said No to racism and sexism, starting questioning their leaders was groundbreaking. But mediocrity always rises to the surface when people stop thinking or caring.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='227218' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:31 AM']OK fair play [i]that's[/i] artistic integrity along with some f***ing serious grooving,[/quote] Isn't it!!! I last saw DH with his Eubanks/Coleman/Smith line-up and loved it but this new band is monster - I am assuming that was Nate Smith on the video (i don't think it was Kilson but I could be wrong). I put 6 DH cds onto my MP3 player last week and am loving it (I think I have about 64 cds with DH on, the only person I have more of is Paul Chambers and that's only because I am researching his story for a book). Dave Holland is just SOOOO in there.

Buy a pub

[quote name='crez5150' post='227181' date='Jun 26 2008, 10:58 AM']You can always say no.....[/quote] That as never been my point. My point is why do we all (collectively) collude in this nonsense - its not the money because the punters would pay that for any covers band. My point is why THOSE covers again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (isn't that a Quo tune?). S'laziness.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='227189' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:10 AM']get me £500 and expenses and I'll do it for you *Jake is considering offering a dep service for bass players that wish to retain their artistic integrity*[/quote] If that was the fee, Jake, I'd do it naked... As for your second point, I offer you THIS [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU[/url]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='226904' date='Jun 25 2008, 08:17 PM']yeah but you can only enjoy it if you like it. Talking of Chick Corea a friend of mine played with him. He's a guitar player called Jamie Glaser, he's played with all the greats, he's a brilliant player, used to give me lessons over MSN messenger a couple of years ago[/quote] Didn't he work with Jean Luc Ponty? I recall he had an Ibanez Artist guitar. I remember becasue I had the same one (let it go and have regretted it ever since).

I just got callled to do a gig with a 'new' function band. Here's the set list: Son Of A Presacher Man Lady Marmalade That's The Way I Like It Billie Jean Valerie Young Hearts Street Life Blame It On The Boogie For Once In MY Life I Will Survive I Wish Superstition Midnight At The Oasis Play That Funky Music You Might Need Somebody Moondance Somebody Else's Guy Sweet Love WalkingOn Sunshine Dancing In The Street Get Ready I Feel Good Knock On Wood Midnight Hour Proud Mary Reach Out (I'll Be There) Let's Stay Together and, yes, you guessed it, Mustang Sally. Its like Punk never happened. :wacko: Why do I bother?

PM'd What I have learned from playing this stuff is that the Latin American music scene in the widest sense is like the occidental music scene - Latin music consists of as many genres as a western music. We all know (or think we know) Bossa Nova, samba and salsa. But there are hundreds of sub-genres. Argentinan Tango (which I love), Brazillian Axe (pronounced 'ashay'), pagode, baiao, samba duro, guaguanco, Cuban son, merengue, songo, mambo, Timba, bolero, charanga, cha cha cha, Mangue Beat, Lundu, Afoxê, Carimbo, Maxixe even Lambada ... the list goes on and on and on. It really is a lifetimes work to study this stuff. But don't let that put you off - some of this sh*t is fantastic! Los Angeles 'Ozomatli' are great fun (plenty on Youtube but some of it is moving into hip-hop territory). Brazil's Gilberto Gil (there is a great DVD called 'Acoustico' that is affordable on Amazon Marketplace -Arthur Maia on acoustic bass guitar) Astor Piazolla - anything he did is magic! You HAVE to listen to Cachao or Buena Vista although., be warned, Cubans don't like the BVSC as hey think it is misrepresenting Cuban music and is, in their eyes, old fashioned (like Diana Krall or Stacy Keny as a representative of comtemporary jazz) Other great Brazillian artists I like include Marisa Monte, Maria Bethânia (great voice) singer/songwriters Chico Buarque, Milton Nascimento, Caetano Veloso (Maria Bethania's brother), Ivan Lins, Djavan (great songs), João Bosco, Aderbal Duarte. There are also the Latin Jazz people - Airto Moriera, Flora Purim, Hermeto Pascoal, Machito, Ray Barretto, Michel Camilo (already mentioned), Egberto Gismonti and 1970s Chick Corea. There are also popular acts like Falamansa who are great fun although a bit one dimensional. And then, not Latin but often seen in a similar light, there's Nuevo Flamenco from Spain - that's a whole new world altogether! There is so much stuff out there for people to enjoy. Cover bands? Humbug!!

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='226117' date='Jun 24 2008, 07:06 PM']Have you seen the EBS NeoGorm?[/quote] Nope - I don't get out much - what with a day job, gigs and writing a book, I can't find time to travel to London to try out gear I can't afford

I will downsize as soon as I can find an amp that delivers like my Metro and doesn't cost 4x the price. There are times when I HATE that amp but they are not when I am making music on it. So I lift it. As a jazzer, I am surrounded by pianists and guitar players who get the smallest gear they can and don't care that it sounds like s***. Like the tenor sax players with £4K of Selmer Mk VI going though an SM58 and a PA the size of a box of washing powder - whaddayaknow - it sucks! Compromise your sound and you compromise on the whole deal.

[quote name='Mikey D' post='225313' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:58 PM']Wasn't Sammy Nestico originally a bassist?! He's probably composed more than most.[/quote] Trombone. Most of his stuff is arranging rather than composing but, yes, he did that too, very prolifically.

[quote name='Mikey D' post='225313' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:58 PM']Bilbo...no Steve Swallow! Shame on you.[/quote] The irony is I am thinking of starting a Steve Swallow Tribute band - commercial suicide but that's jazz....

Do it all. Contact promoters, venues, other bands, festivals, local music press, local radio - just keep going, banging on doors and making sure people don't forget you are there. There is only one way to get there TENACITY!!!