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[quote name='WalMan' post='187872' date='Apr 29 2008, 10:39 AM']Jaco - I've tried, honest I have. Love his stuff on Heavy Weather, but find his solo albums (which I picked up on re releases in an HMV sale a couple of years back) heavy going and largely unlistenable[/quote] Totally accept that a lot of Jaco's solo work is not immediately accessible but some of his stuff on 'Word Of Mouth' is DEEP! Keep revisiting it, Walman, its great stuff. Just another point - most players, however good they are, have their own idols and influences and I have never heard anyone (except Jaco, who I am only TOLD said it) say they are the top banana. Anyone who SAYS they are the greatest is, for my money, a fool.

Isn't this discussion inevitably flawed by the introduction of the concept of genres. If a person is popular as a bass player in a popular genre, s/he is inevitably going to be rated more highly than an underground hero. So Steve Harris is going to be rated more highly as a HM player than Jaco or Manring despite it being patently obvious to anyone that can hold a bass that Harris is not even close to being in their league in terms of technique, innovation or musicality (that is an objective not subjective point). So, Harris is, by definition, overrated. Sorry, but Entwhistle is the same, as are 1,000 other pop/rock players. Whenever I read these forums, I am always astonished by the ways in which people of limited listening experience will nail their colours to the mast in praising their favourite players as geniuses (genii?): just look at all the 'underrated' player threads - mediocroty is more than enough for many people. My point is this; surely the purpose of the exercise is to embed the bass part into the ensemble in as creative and musical a way as possible. Jaco was famous for his shreadding but his most successful work is when he is integrated into the compositional whole - that is when he shines, not when he is somersaulting onto his bass. Wooten is a clinician, an athelete, a circus act - but I have never heard him make music better using his (copious) skills . Same with Bill 'the trainwreck' Dickens. Jeff Berlin is another great technician but he needs a producer SOOO badly (has anyone heard those ludicrous Norah Jones things he has put on his MySpace page- somebody TELL him, please). So, for me, the overrated bass players are not the clever, technical ones per se, but the ones who do 'clever' bass things that don't contribute positively, with integrity and class, to the music being performed. My problem with Jameson isn't his playing - its those bl***y awful Motown tunes: acres of bubblegum with no emotional depth. I like his mind, his way ofnegotiating the changes but, for God's sake, don'tmake me listen to that dreadful stuff any more!

I didn't think Jazz needed controlling!

Prisons - I was playing at HMP Latchmere House the day that the Twin Towers fell - the PRISONERS called for a two minute silence before we had the night of our lives. There was a band made up of staff and prisoners that ROCKED and their singers were the best! If you ever get an offer to play a prison, do it!

Was he an innovator? I heard little more than a Larry Graham thing with a bit more speed but a lot less funk. I did enjoy some of the Chick Corea/RTF stuff but I just thought his bass playing never really gelled for me - too clunky. I actually preferred his upright playing but thought his electric playing was heavy-handed (i.e. clunky). After the first two LPs I mentioned above, I thought he was just endlessly repeating himself (like me, I guess )

Like many of us here, my learning is a mixed bag. Mainly self taught, I had a half dozen lessons with a guy called Dan Quinton (Otis Grand and the Dance Kings) and a couple with Dudley Phillips but that was about it. I can read but was entirely self taught in that area. My main learning was done through listening and transcribing off records and time spent with a few theory books. A handful of videos appeared here and there (Jaco, Jeff Berlin, Gary Willis and John Patittucci IIRC) but, as I said, it was mostly transcribing and theory books. I actually think that most learning is from one's self - a good teacher can impart information but only you can LEARN it! I would argue that reading music is one of the most useful things for learning as it really speeds up your ability to benefit from the materials available and to understand the 'maths' of music (an important aspect of more sophisticated musics). Transcribing helps you share in the problem solving and creativity of those players (of all instruments) that move you but effective transcribing is, to some degree, dependant on your ability to at least understand written music. You can, of course, transcribe by rote rather than by the written note, learning the stuff by repeated listening etc, but this is a much slower process in my experience.

Nice jazz trio gig at the Fox in Bury St Edmunds last night. Ben Pringle on piano. Apart from being a lovely guy, he has a nice touch, with some classic stride piano mixed in with some more contemporary voicings. Ben apparently wrote the music for 'Time Team'. We didn't sound like that tho' He also told me how to locate that irritating buzz on my home studio!

If you get School Days and Journey To Love, you've pretty much heard Stanley Clarke. Personally, I think he is overated and much of his product has dated badly. But I know I am in a minority so you may want to check out some other people's responses!

The 'key of G' implies that all the chords and scales throoughout the piece related to the chords and scales that evolve out of the G scale (GABCDEF#G) scale - staying on the G chord is a very, very tiny part of the potential of a key signature. Composers in the European tradition (classical music) create whole symphonys in a single K (Symphony in G major etc) so the potential of a single key is vast.

Try Urb's O'Shea link, peeps. New one on me. Some great stuff on there. Recommended

Off the Eden website: Interviewer: What do you expect is in store for the future of jazz bass? Yogi: I'm thinkin' there'll be a group of guys who've never met talkin' about it all the time. Interviewer: Can you explain jazz bass? Yogi: I can't, but I will. 90% of all jazz is half improvisation, even on bass. The other half is the part bass players play while others are playing something they never played with anyone who played that part. So if you play the wrong part, its right. If you play the right part, it might be right if you play it wrong enough. But if you play it too right, it's wrong. Interviewer: I don't understand. Yogi: Anyone who understands jazz bass knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's whats so simple about it. Interviewer: Do you understand it? Yogi: No. That's why I can explain it. If I understood it, I wouldn't know anything about it. Interviewer: Are there any great jazz bass players alive today? Yogi: No. All the great jazz bass players alive today are dead. Except for the ones that are still alive. But so many of them are dead, that the ones that are still alive are dying to be like the ones that are dead. Some would kill for it. Interviewer: What is syncopation? Yogi: That's when the note that you should hear now happens either before or after you hear it. In jazz, you don't hear notes when they happen because that would be some other type of music. Other types of music can be jazz, but only if they're the same as something different from those other kinds. Interviewer: Now I really don't understand. Yogi: I haven't taught you enough for you to not understand jazz bass that well.

Its not hard to see what will hapeen - just look at history. Take jazz (I had to get it in there, didn't I?) In the early days in the US, jazz was a no-profit, out of hours nonsense activity for a few musicians in a few obscure backwaters. Gradually, it caught on and got marketed. It grew and grew and hundreds of bands existed in territories across America. People were hearing it nightly on the radio and the bands they were listening were ALL playing live to the nations. The introduction of the phonograph record preceded and downturn in the numbers of bands that the industry could sustain and then external factors kicked in (loss of shellac due to WWII). The bands tailed off and small groups became the flavour of the day. Then rock and roll came along and, ZAP, even the previously succesful jazz acts were counting the days. Jazz is now a cottage industry, full of people who make a bit of money but many of whom live hand to mouth. Most people in the field do other things to make ends meet; teaching, commercial gigs, sessions (fewer and fewer), tv catalogue work, pit orchestras etc. My guess is that the bubble is set to burst as music ceases to be as important to future generations as it was to previous ones. There is as much money in music for XBox games these days as there is in many sub-genres. More people involved but earning less. I did a session for the BBC in 1982 on a state of the art studio and it still sounds great. My home PC is now more powerful. The secret is in the skills of the engineer/producer and not just in the gear. As we all get more expert, our home recordings will become more sophisticated and more competitive. For people interested in minority musics, this is probably a good thing. I also think that professionalism is more necessary now than previously. Getting hammered all teh time was romantic for the Stones et al. Now it will get you fired. I think the music industry in the future will be different; not better or worse, just different!

Even I would sell my jazz soul for that gig! 'There once was a woman, a strange kinda woman......'

They do look attractive. And expensive.

Great jazz trio gig last night at the Fox in Bury - Phil Brook on guitar and a new guy (to me) Jack Hunt from nr. Diss on flute (sitting in). NIIIIIIIIIIIICE!

I really think the size of your hands has nothing to do with any of this. I have always played with what is usually called a 'one finger per fret' technique on my left hand (fretting). However, because I am on a fretless, the accuracy required for all four fingers to actually HIT the exact spot where the correct note lays is simply not there physiologically so you have to make small adjustments depending on where you are on the neck but also where you are in the phrasing of an idea. In addtion, depending on the line you are playing, you sometimes need to play the next note on the same string as the last one whilst, at other times, you need to play it on a different string. All of this changes the position of both of your hands and your fingers quite significantly. Having it all under your hands in one position is a technical ideal but not always possible or desirable in practice. It is your ability to move your hand between positions without losing the internal integrity of a phrase that counts not the size of your hand. I suspect this is not really any different on a 36" scale to a 33". Small hands, big hands. I think its a red herring.

'So What' - Miles Davis 'All Blues' - Miles Davis

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='174440' date='Apr 11 2008, 11:45 AM']for example i have no idea how For the love of money goes.[/quote] Betcha do!! It's been used on 'The Apprentice' ads - heavily phased/flanged bass line with a girl group vocal 'money, money, money, moaney'!! - Google it and you will recognise it, I guarantee it. It was written by Anthony Jackson so he must be getting some new royalties for it!

I had a Trace Eliot AH250 and two cabs that were used by double bass players Arild Anderson (Masquelero and other ECM work) and Miroslav Vitous (Weather Report etc) on seperate occasions, one at St Davids Hall in Cardiff, the other (Vitous) at the Brecon Jazz Festival. Apparently, mine was amongst the best gear in the area at the time (mid 80s) and I would also let them use it for free (free tickets that is!!)!

Jazz trio - shocking :wacko:

Welcome,. Maine - Marillion, eh!! My kid brother loved them (has a daughter called Kaylieigh!). We saw them at Reading with Fish all made up (was it in about 1482)! Halcyon Days!

The problem with finding your true path is in recognising that you are already on it.

[quote name='urb' post='173375' date='Apr 9 2008, 06:58 PM']Er... I love jazz too Mike[/quote] GOOD for you !!!!!