Bilbo

[quote name='chris_b' post='164351' date='Mar 27 2008, 10:37 AM']If I went fretless I'd have to start with a LINED fretboard.[/quote] Don't talk yourself into it being harder than it is. Fretlines are an unnecessary crutch and, unless I am sorely mistaken, you can't see them from where you are anyway (especially if its dark at the back of the stage!!) As someone said above, there are usually dots on the side of the neck to keep you in the ballpark; after that its just your ears. If you can tell if your bass is out of tune, you can't go wrong! IMO, bearing in mind I have played fretless for 22 years (last Tuesday - literally!! I still have thre recipt for my Wal ), if you can play fretted, you can play fretless. Trust me, I am a Probation Officer...

Jamey Aebersold's 'Autum Leaves' selection - you can isolate the piano & drums from the bass. It's real people not MIDI. £6.29 on Amazon Marketplace. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aebersold-Volume-44-Autumn-Leaves/dp/B00005YAZE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206613695&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aebersold-Volume-4...3695&sr=8-1[/url]

Perfectly. My point is only that there are songs that NEED a fretless (Whereever I Lay My Hat by Paul Young would sink without it, Weather Report's 'A Remark You Made' etc) and some that sound (IMO) BETTER on a fretless (every jazz tune ever, for example) but there are VERY few songs that NEED a fretted bass and couldn't be played completely satisfactorily on a fretless. I guess its the opposite of what your saying. Nevertheless, if you are happy with a fretted, just go for it. I can play fretted anytime I need to but prefer to play fretless. So I do and very few people complain!

Oh and another thing! I think fretless six string basses lose something as you go up the neck. Past a certain point, all of the beauty goes out of the tone and it just sounds icky! Some of Steve Bailey's stuff is weakened dramatically by this, but this is subjective opinion (I've got a lot of them!).

Have played fretless :wub: since 1986 and rarely play fretted (I have one gig where the MD insists - I have to acquiese to keep the gig but I think he's wrong)! I play Latin, Jazz, Funk and have played Rock on fretless and, to my ears, it sounds better in almost every setting, the obvious exception being slapping (which I rarely do as a result). You can slap on a fretless (see Pino Palladino) but I accept that it sounds better on a fretted bass. Other than that, I find the fretless warmer, more soulful, more expressive and more versatile. I know a lot of people are anxious about the intonation thing but I see it differently (10, 000, 000 orchestral string players can't all be wrong). Bass Players are part of a fraternity that has been spoled by frets - trombone players don't have notches on their slides that tell them they are in tune - they use their ears. It's just something you need to work on. But it is something that you work on whilst working on everything else you practice so its an 'as well as' not an 'instead of'. It just requires you to listen to your own playing more effectively and actively in the context of the music being performed, a skill that is very useful anyway. ONe of my band's MySpace page (Albino Cubana) has three tracks on it that have my fretless on it and none of them sound like Jaco going 'mwwwwah'; the Mick Karn thing is SO stylised it is interesting but too personal to 'cop' from. Jaco plays beautifully on fretted or fretless but his fretless sound is idiomatically defintive. It is not, however, in any way the only way forward - Percy Jones is iconic, John Giblin was in his shadow but is a formidable player in his own right, Pino Palladino had his own octave dividing chorus thing, the list goes on. Other people have mentioned rock/metal players who play fretless - if you are looking for a 'bass' sound (as opposed to a quasi-guitar thing), a fretless can do pretty much anything a fretted can and a whole lot more. Jeff Berlin said he would never play a fretless because he didn't want to sound like Jaco. I am sorry but I always found that to be crass, even when I thought the sun shone out of his ..... That's like saying John Scofield sounds like Larry Carlton because they both play a semi-hollow body jazz guitar (for those who don't know, they are completely different and immediately identifiable). I find the fretless easier to get a personal sound on. Your intonation is like your accent, its part of what defines your playing, just like your time. To my ears, and I accept this is a personal thing, I do think there is something missing in a fretted sound, some element of humanity. Perfect intonation is not all its cracked up to be!! I could talk about this for hours and would prefer to but I can see you are all nodding off so I'll get my coat....

I was just reading this and laughing to myself thinking of someone videoing themselves playing the bass lines to an AC/DC track solo, by themselves, without any backing. 6.04 of 'A'... A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A ..... etc It may have been 'musical' but it wouldn't make a great video would it? I watched this video ages ago and enjoyed it for what it was - I have never gone back to look at it again, haven't spent a second trying to cop any of it - its a party trick and, like all party tricks, is for special occasions, for a laugh, in the moment. What this kind of thing does do, however, and I think this is irrefutable, is tell us all that there are not really any boundaries to our chosen instrument, only those that we set ourselves. I don't buy Manring, Wooten or Baudin cds, I wouldn't listen to them, but, once in a while, I will admit that I go back for another look just because I think that these guys have to exist to remind us that the sky is the limit. Nigel Clutterbuck, I salute you. Now where is my copy of 'If You Want Blood....'

Someone there will be collecting names of people who want to play and what tunes they want to play. Talk to them, ask them what the deal is - they will usually help you to find some like minded people you can sit in with. Bass players tend to play more than most because there are usually less of them so expect to play some stuff you don't know with some people you have never met Something like a 'funk jam in E' or just a riff between two chords - you'd be surprised how much fun something that simple can be (and how great the bass player can sound on those open Es!!) Remember, its not the end of the world if a piece goes t*ts up, even if it's your fault. Its a jam and sometimes things go wrong - use your ears and eyes and don't panic. And try not to try too hard to be 'cool' because trying to be cool is the uncoolest thing of all. If its your fault it goes wrong, say so, apologise and have another go! A smile or a laugh will get you farther than a scowl! Trust me, some people at these jams are astonishingly bad but its ok, thats what they are there for, for people who are starting out to have a go. Most of all - have fun!!!! Let us know how you got on.

9. Its not the number of bands that matters but the expectations of each. I play in about 9 different bands (not including free-lance work) but, because I read music and know how to function with an adequate chord chart, the rehearsal issue is less intrusive - I mostly only go out to gig. The bands that rehearse have to wait until I am free or until there is an imminent reason to rehearse (i.e. a gig or recording - some of these bands only do 4 gigs a year). All those hours learning to cope with dots and scales and theory are paying off. I am out 12 nights in April. I also have a day job and, yes, the gigging does get in the way but when the gigs are bringing in as much as some people earn in a month, the complaints are more measured. I also think that rehearsals can be used in a more creative way than everybody attending all of the time - I find that, as a bass player, a lot of rehearsal time is spent playing back ground noise for other people to learn tunes to - i.e. I don't need the rehearsals but the rest of the band do. So why do I have to give up one evening a week to play over and over again a two bar riff I learned three years ago? Also, learning parts takes a lot longer of people haven't got their basic skills sorted e.g. limited technique, weak harmonic knowledge etc. So those of us that can nail stuff in two or three runs are standing around while the weaker members of the band learn parts they should have nailed long before the rehearsal started. As I said, t's more complicated than how many.

AJ is one of the most musical bass players out there - and almost no solos. His concept is unique and his sound and note choices entirely his own. He is a man of integrity in an industry where such things are not valued. His technique is first class and worthy of study. His work with Michel Camilo is nothing short of astonishing.

Kermot Driscoll with Bill Frissel - an true orignal (try Frissel's 'Have A Little faith' first!)

Cachao has left us. Rest in Peace, Senor. [url="http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_dade/story/466437.html>"]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_d...466437.html>[/url]

44 year old jazzer. Took up bass in 1980, went fretless in '86 and not really played fretted basses since. I have a fretted 6-string status I don't really use (except when I gig with Bridget Metcalfe - her MD insists on the low D). Started in a Metal band in '81. Then a bit of prog rock & pop before the jazz kicked in. Played in a band with Grant Nicholas from Feeder in 1986-88 (ish) but my jazz interests got teh better of me and I was on teh Cardiff jazz scene from 88 - 94 before moving ot SUrrey. Surrey was a jazz only part of my life but a move to East Anglia in 2001 mean that I have to try some alternative options or not play. So did som eheavy duty funk and some Latin whilst waiting for the jazz to kick in. Problem is I play jazz on and electric bass and most bandleaders want an upright. I have played with some great people over the years: Jim Mullen, Iain Ballamy, Stan Sultzman, Janusz Carmello, Roy Williams, Nick Page, Osian Roberts, Nigel Price (James Taylor guitarist) but usually only once each!!! I love to play creatively and love that real time organic blowing that jazz allows you to engage in. The jazz playing is opening up here in Suffolk and I am now playing mostly jazz again (some Latin still in there). I kind of don't know what I am like to listen to as I lack the ability to be that objective. I hate my playing mostly although I can usually nail most things I am asked to play. I do, however, like my sound as it sounds like me and noone else, a fact that is important for a jazzer. I only play my fretless Wal 4-string finger style (although I can slap at a rudimentary level - I just don't really like the music that slapping is involved in so I rarely use it). I crave a great creative jazz gig and have only every had that once when I played in the Julian Martin Trio in Cardiff in the late 80s early 90s - we really had something genuinely interesting. Cardiff based Ian Williams on drums; mad as a fish but a real original. That's me.

Phwoar! You know how to turn a man's head. If my Metro didn't already have wheels, I would be off down Maplin's like a fast thing from Fast City. As it does, I'll spend the money on something ELSE!!!

You're the bass player. No-one is listening to you. Forget it and enjoy yourself. I did a jazz gig once and myself and the pianist were a little frustrated that the audience weren't listening so, to prove a point, we did a fast be-bop 12-bar blues. He played it in Bb and I did it in B. After a chorus, he swapped to B and I swapped to Bb and so on throughout the whole piece. Yes, you've guessed it. No-one in the 120 strong audience noticed. Not even the drummer! The BiBeefChief will love that one!

Just thought of another underated electric bass player with a creditable jazz pedigree of a sort. Kermit Driscoll. Anyone remember him? His technique was not the issue - his creativity was. The man was undoubtedly an original and his work with Bill Frissel is immediately recognisable (try 'Have A Little Faith' first). Is it jazz? Who cares?

The one pictured is the one most jazzers now use as the Real Books we all refer to are too heavy for the smaller models and are they are thus prone to collapsing mid-tune. They aren't that cumbersome. I can't believe you'll hump a 48kg bass cab and then moan about a music stand!

Some great jJazz biographies for anyone who is interested: 'Straight Life' by Art & Laurie Pepper - biography of a jazz musician/sociopath but, first and foremost, a great read 'Miles Davis: the definitive biography - a critical biography' by Ian Carr 'Milestones' by Jack Chambers - another Miles Davis biography 'Mingus - a critical biography by Brian Priestly' Anything by Gary Giddens Myself When I Am Real: The Life and Music of Charles Mingus by Gene Santoro - grest writing Before Motown: A History of Jazz in Detroit, 1920-60 by Lars Bjorn and Jim Gallert - Jim has been really supportive of me in my own efforts at writing a biography so I want to give him a mention Myself Among Others: A Life in Music by George Wein & Nate Chinen Mama Said There'd Be Days Like This: My Life in the Jazz World by Val Wilmer - great writing As Serious as Your Life: John Coltrane and Beyond by Val Wilmer Friends Along the Way: A Journey Through Jazz by Lees, Gene John Coltrane: His Life and Music by Lewis Porter (Lewis has also been supportive of me) I could go on and on - I read more than I practice (its quieter and I can do it on public transport!)

Zero Frets - works for me Welcome!

Aren't people who nick gear the scum of the earth?

Guitar, backing voxs, percussion (surdo, agogo etc) - all servicable not great - sufficient to record demos and explore ideas etc. Just got my first gig on guitar tho', after years of thinking I could do better than the guitar players around me. Part of it is about realising that you don't have to be a virtuoso to 'play' an instrument and about having the confidence to be mediocre! How good is good enough? As for b. vocals, we can pretty much all do it if we try. You don't have to be Ella Fitzgerald to justify singing! Its yours and its free. Just do it.

There is a standard MU contract that covers this. As I recall there is a sliding scale dependent upon the length of time between cancelation and schedueld gig. I have received payment for cancelled gigs several times on this basis.

Wal Cusom Fretless 4-string bought 25/4/86 from Monkey Business. Still keeps me [i]very[/i] happy. 4 basses ever - my first Hondo II Precsion copy (1980), replaced fairly quickly by an Aria SB700 (1981) followed by the Wal. Since had a Status 6-string but its on the wall most of teh time and only comes out if an MD demands a low B (2/3 times a year). Amps - Sound City to Frunt (remember them!!) to Trace Eliot AH250 to GK MB150S (stoeln) to SWR Electric Blue head to Eden Metro (2001). Amps are more likely to get changed due to improvements in technology/differing needs in terms of playing situations but the bass stays put.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='158129' date='Mar 15 2008, 07:17 PM']I also tend to like those albums recorded in weeks rather than months.[/quote] Ha ha ha! I love the idea that a 'raw' and 'unpolished' product can be recorded in weeks! What a lot of people don't realise is that most jazz is recorded in one take over an afternoon! Miles Davis recorded the greatest selling jazz lp of all time (Kind Of Blue) in two afternoons (around 6 hours) - no rehearsal, no overdubs and only a couple of re-takes. And what's more, the musicians got paid accordingly - Paul Chambers got about $350 for the whole thing. And it out-sold some of Simon and Garfunkel's LPs. Look at any one of 1,000 Blue Note cds and they will give the date of the recording as one day - look at the discographies and you will see that the sessions produced up to a dozen or more tracks. All the musos got paid union rates with no royalties (except the composers). Those great JOhn Abercrombie Trio recordings are all one day sessions - fantastic! Things are no different today. Gwizdala's cds are all recorded on one day, even if they are mixed and mastered on another. Session musicians get the gig because they can deliver in one take what other take ten or a hundred to achieve. If the product is soulless, blame the producer - he chose the musicians and 'managed' the arrangements. I did a session once and didn't hear the results until a year or two later and I had to be told it was me because I couldn't remember it at all (and I was stone cold sober!). I know that is not uncommon for other players. We have to remember, as I said elsewhere on this forum, that lots of music that is recorded is often for different audiences than sophisticated afficianados and a polished performance in one arena would grate in another.

Where are all the jazzers?? Electric 1. Steve Swallow - electric bass innovation with Gary Burton and others 2. Percy Jones - Jaco wrote the book, Jones tore it up and started again 3. Anthony Jackson - 'For The Love Of Money' quietly introduced some new sounds to the instrument 4. Mark Egan - not the greatest player ever but a clear voice on early Pat Metheny Group LPs 5. Alphonso Johnson - grooves just as hard as Jaco and often overlooked. Acoustic 1. Marc Johnson - earliest recordings with Bill Evans in 1978. One of the best sounds in bass history if my ears are worth anything 2. Dave Holland - 1972's 'Conference Of The Birds' was, in my view, seminal 3. Stanley Clarke - 1972's Light As A Feather gave us at least 3 jazz standards if not 6/6 and all this before he started slapping 4. Ron Carter - a great decade for him even if the media wasn't looking 5. Eddie Gomez - got a Grammy for Chick Corea's 'Friends' in 1979.

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='156876' date='Mar 13 2008, 05:34 PM'][pedant]Surely there are only 7 notes in any key? If you include the octave as well as the root, that's 13 notes in an octave! So it's not quite 66%...[/pedant][/quote] You are, of course, correct. It is, in fact, 58.3333% not 66%. I stand corrected. That's far too risky! Don't do it