Bilbo

Perfectly, Chris. Jaco, like Coltrane, has had a problem in that everything he ever did is now being released in order to cash in on his name. So we get to hear all sorts of dubious recordings that probably should never have seen the light of day. He repeated himself an awful lot and anyone who has, at any point, listened to a lot of Jaco's stuff will confirm that. He had some real strengths as a player but, except for a five year period around 76- 81, he was not as 'inspired' as his press would suggest. He nailed a specific groove and stayed with it instead of growing, his health being the main reason for this. But when he was on, he was REALLY on. And 'Dry Cleaner' is, for me, one of those moments.

One of the bands I am with is playing this Friday, 7th December, at the Corn Exchange in Ipswich, Suffolk. Albino Cubana are an nine piece Latin/World Music band with Vocals (x2), guitar/tres, keyboards, bass, drums, percussion, trumpet and trombone - very dance orientated but funky as f*** and the horns are a delight. I DARE YOU TO SIT STILL!!! Find us on MySpace....3 tracks off our cd! Support band (Brazillian singer/guitarist Gione Antony with a guitarist and percussionist) and a Latin/World Music DJ. Door open 7 p.m., music starts 8.30 p.m. £7 on the door. Be there or be somewhere else. See if I care.

'they feel the time already' But what if these geniuses only THINK they 'FEEL' the time? What do they DO about it? All this spooky 'Feel it' 'Sense it' 'Natural time' hippies make me laugh. They don't KNOW but, what's funnier, they don't KNOW that they don't know. 'Never used one, never will' - oooooh! you're SOOOO in touch with your raw instincts!! Your music must be SOOOOO pure! :wub:

Sibelius is fantastic if you (your family) can afford it.... last price I saw was £287 but I reckon you might get it for less if you shop around. It really is powerful....

I think it was a joke in poor taste rather than romanticising, jakesbass. I guess s/he touched a nerve? Heroin is a nasty drug that makes most people who use it less than human. It has no place in society and those that peddle it are a disgrace, whatever their motivation.

'Writing about music is like dancing about architecture' - Elvis Costello paraphrasing someone else

I agree with most of what you say, Mikey, but do bleieve that the colleges and universities are selling a lie in that they take money off people (including the State) to provide courses that produce a vastly greater number of practitioners than the market can sustain. Theses seats of learning are increasingly becoming businesses, no more and no less, and have a product to sell. I don't think they are any less capable of tapping into people's dreams and exploitating them than diet groups, plastic surgeons or TV 'talent' shows. I heard somewhere that a couple of years ago, universities and colleges trained 2,000 occupational therapists but the NHS only employed 2. There are 1,000s of musicians, engineers and whatever in college now who will probably never some close to a career in music, anymore than the 100s or archaeologists or fine artists that qualify each year will end up as practitioners in their chosen field. And they will have £10K of student debts for their trouble. I wish it worked differently but I do think that a lot of people could go a long way studying independently. I reckon moving to a big city and building relationships with existing players is probably as useful an activity as anything. Just practice, practice, practice and hone your skills so that you are ready for that break when it comes. I'd still go to college if I could, tho'.

'Study music, not musicians' - Lincoln Goines

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='98015' date='Dec 3 2007, 11:32 AM']A tutor was chatting the other day and told me that he sees a steady stream of young teenage boys, who say 'teach me to shred' -[/quote] Tell them to 'f*** off' and get a life.....

Never tried it but keyboard amps tend to work really well if you ever need to borrow an amp and can't find a bass player to lend you one!

I love the idea of going to college to study jazz on electric bass. I would have loved to do it twenty years ago and I would love to do it now. All that playing, practising and studying all day every day. Brilliant! Only I can't help but notice that some of the people I have taught/played with who have gone on to do this (Royal College/Leeds etc) are now gigging on the same scenes as me, playing the same venues for the same money and doing no more gigs than I am. Not sure what the point of it all was? Not sure what point I am making. Not sure whether this thing half way up my arm is my a**e or my elbow.

This problem is about YouTube's search engine. You put in 'bass', what do you know, you get 'bass'. If a video has bass in the title, it is going to be w**ky stuff like Wooten, Manring etc. Most great music is not defined anywhere by its bass part and this is more the case on YouTube and the net than anywhere! Basschat is probably a better source for finding out about groove players than YouTube could ever be! Its just that you can't actually [i]hear[/i] them here.

Is that a Mk1 Pro? A Custom has two pick-ups and 4 pots?

What's that book, Pete?

I have listened to Jeff Berlin's 'metronome rant' for over a decade. I kind of know what he means about time but I think he is missing a trick. I think the device has merit in that it teaches you, as a developing player, to LISTEN to another sound source whilst you are determining the validity of your own 'time'. In short, if you are playing straight quarter notes solo, I have no doubt that they will be in time (as per Jeff's 'numpty from the audience' trick) but, unless you have something to refer to, you will not be able to determine whether or not your RELATIVE time is good (are you racing, dragging etc). The metronome is no substitute for another player (because other players time shifts and you need to react to that too) but it is a perfectly credible place to start. It gives you someting to bounce if in the early days. A drum machine is probably better but a metronome, especially set to play on beats 2 & 4, can really help you find your groove. As someone said, its one tool of many and I wouldn't recommend anyone become a slave the the thing but I wouldn't dismiss it either (nor would vibes player Gary Burton, one of the world's greatest improvising musicians). As I said on another post, I used to think JB was the best but, as I have matured, I have found him to be a very cold player, no soul, and I struggle with his sound - his 'genre' samples of bass playing (free with Bass Player magazine way back) were idiomatically uninformed (his 'rock' lines were embarrassing) and his 'train' effects on 'In Harmony's Way' are just naff. His chordal songs are clever excutions of bad material. He knows a lot (I particularly agree with his views on the value of proper musical education) but he don't know everything and 'his' way is most certainly not the only way and nor is it, in my view, the best. Whatever our education, we all find our own path. That is why we all sound different.

Swapped an Ibanez Artist 6 string solid body (guitar - kind of SG shape) for an acoustic once - made sense at the time but I have long wished I hadn't (still have the acoustic but never play it)!

A word of caution from the Suffolk ignoramus.... After years of losing out jazz gigs to double bass players (and of being a genuine admirer of people like Paul Chambers, Dave Holland, Marc Johnson and Ron Carter), I decided I would have a go. I didn't have a lot of money so found an independent dealer in Surrey who sold me a, get this, half-size bass (I am 6' 1'' tall). I was so up for playing the thing and wanted one NOW that I fell for it. I had tried enquiring elsewhere but couldn't get anything for the £500 I had to spend so I though, 'Aah, well. At least it will get me started'. Did it f***. Firstly, I tried to get a classical teacher but they were all REALLY elitist, treated me like an arrogant pretender (I wasn't, I just wanted to learn) because I was over 30, and, because I couldn't get to them between 9-5 Monday to Friday, they couldn't meet my needs. I was too far out (geographically) to benefit from London teachers and decided to go it alone. It can't be that hard, right? Bad mistake. Bad technique. Bad carpel tunnel syndrome. Had to put the instrument down after 18 months, after playing only two gigs on the damn thing, and sold it back to the same dealer (for the money I paid for it, to be fair). I couldn't play for more than 15 minutes before the pain set in. Fortunately, my hand/arm problems didn't overly effect my electric bass playing so all was not lost but my little adventure with the double bass continues to give me some odd RSI type pains that, whilst not unduly bad, have resulted in my having to use an ergonomic computer keyboard due to difficulties with my left wrist. In short, bassbloke, I would listen to Merchant. He sounds like he knows what he is taking about and may save you some considerable pain and frsutration later on. I wish I could have spoken to him before I went down the dead end I took. I urge patience and dedicated research into the field you are entering. A little time spent now will save you many years of wasted time later on. My main regret is that my inability to deal with the bull fiddle has denied me the opportunity to play many genre's of music that, had I had a more positive experience, I could have enjoyed (classical music, certain shows, some jazz etc). I try very hard to use the electric bass for 'serious' musics (primarily jazz orientated) but, despite my ambitions, the electric is rarely called where the double bass is traditionally featured and I am condemned to a musical life populated by realtively superficial amatuers. All because Basschat didn't exist in 1993!!

I heard this track first in about 1980 and still drool every time I hear it! 'Shadows and Light' is, for me, one of the best live LPs of all time (for some readon, the best tracks are missing off the CD). The DVD has all of the tracks on it. Mitchell, Jaco, Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Michale Bracker and Don Alias - WHAT A BAND!! That took me to the 'Mingus' LP (yes, vinyl). Great bass from our man - lots of space, no overplaying and funky as a mofo! But both versions of 'The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines' (a Mingus composition with lyrics by Mitchell) are fantastic. Go listen on Amazon for a taster - you'll buy it, I guarantee!!

'A player with a pile of stock licks who sits waiting for a chance to show what they can do stands out a mile in a collective improv setting - like a footballer who never passes'. OUCH!! :wacko: I'm going back to the woodshed somewhat chastened, Steve. As hard as I try not to be, I AM that tosser! Probably best I don't get a 9-string! I'm already too ego-centric.

I understand that Keith Jarrett thinks any music over and above that of the solo performer will inevitably require compromise. I guess its is true in a way but I see music as a communal activity because, even if you are a solo performer, the moment the music is out there as sound, its beauty is in the ear of the beholder. There are now two people involved so the debate begins anew. I think the role of the innovator is a lot easier to take a perspective on with hindsight. Remember Stanley Jordan - whatever happened to him? For every innovator who succeeds in moving the art form forward, there are 1,000s taking it up all sorts of blind alleys. Who is to say who is right, other than a concensus? I just think that the debate is more important than the outcome!

Hi Geordie - Felixstowe jazzer here! Welcome to Basschat! Never heard of any of your favourites but I guess you'll have never heard of mine either!!!

A flat - it makes more sense as an A flat major scale than G sharp. Simply put, if you think all seven note (octave) scales should have an A B C D E F G. A G sharp scale reads G sharp, A Sharp, C, C sharp, D sharp, E shap G, G sharp. So it has 2 cs and 2 Gs and would be a nightmare to read using conventional staff notation. If you make it A flat you have and A flat, B flat, C, D flat, E flat, F, G A flat. Much better in my head and on paper! Make sense? So, its a D flat pentatonic (penta = five notes including the root (tonic), hence D flat, E flat, F (major 3rd so its a major pentatonic), A flat, B flat. 5 notes = pentatonic). In fact, most pentatonics work against more than one major scale and a D flat pentatonic is equally useful against both a D flat (C sharp) scale, a G flat (F sharp) scale and an A flat (G sharp) major scale. So we are all right!!

Crazykiwi - I think that most popular music, as it is presented in the mainstream media, IS s**t. I don't believe that as an absolute (so don't be coming back at me for that) but, if you watched primetime tv and listened to the radio between the hours of 8 a.m. and 9 p.m., no piece of music would ever last more than 3.20, no-one over 25 would ever sing, no-one would ever play a solo, most genres wouldn't exist etc, etc. Ask yourself this; how much of the music I like did I hear first on the radio or television? I bet its a small percentage. My point is that consensus is sometimes a great way of ensuring mediocrity.

I started it! I HAVE learned some stuff I didn't know and seen some players I previously hadn't (which has, in turn, put me in touch with some more etc) so I got a lot out of the debate. I have seen some great young players and been inspired to look at practising again (complacency had set in). I won't be looking for a 9-string in the near future but nor will I discount them as a credible tool in the production of music. Just a little point to consider. Progress is never achieved by people who agree - only by people who argue, discuss and debate. If everyone agreed, there would be no need to innovate. Don't ever settle for concensus, for the middle ground. That's why national television is so sh**.

Actually the pain thing is a, err, pain. I get all sorts of aches and pains as I get older; shoulders aching, hands and arms sore etc. I don't get blisters but my finger tips do get sore when I play too intensely. I guess the problem relates to freelancing and doing some gigs that are a breeze and then, intermittently, doing a longer gig or one with harder, faster grooves or more solo space. Your body doesn't recover as quickly as you get older and things that hurt, hurt longer! What I do notice, however, is that, if its a good gig, musically satisfying/exciting etc, I get less pains. I wonder if its a posture thing? If I am bored/disatisfied, I slouch and the pains kick in. I'll have a think about that!! Carry on...