Bilbo

'Study music, not musicians' - Lincoln Goines

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='98015' date='Dec 3 2007, 11:32 AM']A tutor was chatting the other day and told me that he sees a steady stream of young teenage boys, who say 'teach me to shred' -[/quote] Tell them to 'f*** off' and get a life.....

Never tried it but keyboard amps tend to work really well if you ever need to borrow an amp and can't find a bass player to lend you one!

I love the idea of going to college to study jazz on electric bass. I would have loved to do it twenty years ago and I would love to do it now. All that playing, practising and studying all day every day. Brilliant! Only I can't help but notice that some of the people I have taught/played with who have gone on to do this (Royal College/Leeds etc) are now gigging on the same scenes as me, playing the same venues for the same money and doing no more gigs than I am. Not sure what the point of it all was? Not sure what point I am making. Not sure whether this thing half way up my arm is my a**e or my elbow.

This problem is about YouTube's search engine. You put in 'bass', what do you know, you get 'bass'. If a video has bass in the title, it is going to be w**ky stuff like Wooten, Manring etc. Most great music is not defined anywhere by its bass part and this is more the case on YouTube and the net than anywhere! Basschat is probably a better source for finding out about groove players than YouTube could ever be! Its just that you can't actually [i]hear[/i] them here.

Is that a Mk1 Pro? A Custom has two pick-ups and 4 pots?

What's that book, Pete?

I have listened to Jeff Berlin's 'metronome rant' for over a decade. I kind of know what he means about time but I think he is missing a trick. I think the device has merit in that it teaches you, as a developing player, to LISTEN to another sound source whilst you are determining the validity of your own 'time'. In short, if you are playing straight quarter notes solo, I have no doubt that they will be in time (as per Jeff's 'numpty from the audience' trick) but, unless you have something to refer to, you will not be able to determine whether or not your RELATIVE time is good (are you racing, dragging etc). The metronome is no substitute for another player (because other players time shifts and you need to react to that too) but it is a perfectly credible place to start. It gives you someting to bounce if in the early days. A drum machine is probably better but a metronome, especially set to play on beats 2 & 4, can really help you find your groove. As someone said, its one tool of many and I wouldn't recommend anyone become a slave the the thing but I wouldn't dismiss it either (nor would vibes player Gary Burton, one of the world's greatest improvising musicians). As I said on another post, I used to think JB was the best but, as I have matured, I have found him to be a very cold player, no soul, and I struggle with his sound - his 'genre' samples of bass playing (free with Bass Player magazine way back) were idiomatically uninformed (his 'rock' lines were embarrassing) and his 'train' effects on 'In Harmony's Way' are just naff. His chordal songs are clever excutions of bad material. He knows a lot (I particularly agree with his views on the value of proper musical education) but he don't know everything and 'his' way is most certainly not the only way and nor is it, in my view, the best. Whatever our education, we all find our own path. That is why we all sound different.

Swapped an Ibanez Artist 6 string solid body (guitar - kind of SG shape) for an acoustic once - made sense at the time but I have long wished I hadn't (still have the acoustic but never play it)!

A word of caution from the Suffolk ignoramus.... After years of losing out jazz gigs to double bass players (and of being a genuine admirer of people like Paul Chambers, Dave Holland, Marc Johnson and Ron Carter), I decided I would have a go. I didn't have a lot of money so found an independent dealer in Surrey who sold me a, get this, half-size bass (I am 6' 1'' tall). I was so up for playing the thing and wanted one NOW that I fell for it. I had tried enquiring elsewhere but couldn't get anything for the £500 I had to spend so I though, 'Aah, well. At least it will get me started'. Did it f***. Firstly, I tried to get a classical teacher but they were all REALLY elitist, treated me like an arrogant pretender (I wasn't, I just wanted to learn) because I was over 30, and, because I couldn't get to them between 9-5 Monday to Friday, they couldn't meet my needs. I was too far out (geographically) to benefit from London teachers and decided to go it alone. It can't be that hard, right? Bad mistake. Bad technique. Bad carpel tunnel syndrome. Had to put the instrument down after 18 months, after playing only two gigs on the damn thing, and sold it back to the same dealer (for the money I paid for it, to be fair). I couldn't play for more than 15 minutes before the pain set in. Fortunately, my hand/arm problems didn't overly effect my electric bass playing so all was not lost but my little adventure with the double bass continues to give me some odd RSI type pains that, whilst not unduly bad, have resulted in my having to use an ergonomic computer keyboard due to difficulties with my left wrist. In short, bassbloke, I would listen to Merchant. He sounds like he knows what he is taking about and may save you some considerable pain and frsutration later on. I wish I could have spoken to him before I went down the dead end I took. I urge patience and dedicated research into the field you are entering. A little time spent now will save you many years of wasted time later on. My main regret is that my inability to deal with the bull fiddle has denied me the opportunity to play many genre's of music that, had I had a more positive experience, I could have enjoyed (classical music, certain shows, some jazz etc). I try very hard to use the electric bass for 'serious' musics (primarily jazz orientated) but, despite my ambitions, the electric is rarely called where the double bass is traditionally featured and I am condemned to a musical life populated by realtively superficial amatuers. All because Basschat didn't exist in 1993!!

I heard this track first in about 1980 and still drool every time I hear it! 'Shadows and Light' is, for me, one of the best live LPs of all time (for some readon, the best tracks are missing off the CD). The DVD has all of the tracks on it. Mitchell, Jaco, Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Michale Bracker and Don Alias - WHAT A BAND!! That took me to the 'Mingus' LP (yes, vinyl). Great bass from our man - lots of space, no overplaying and funky as a mofo! But both versions of 'The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines' (a Mingus composition with lyrics by Mitchell) are fantastic. Go listen on Amazon for a taster - you'll buy it, I guarantee!!

'A player with a pile of stock licks who sits waiting for a chance to show what they can do stands out a mile in a collective improv setting - like a footballer who never passes'. OUCH!! :wacko: I'm going back to the woodshed somewhat chastened, Steve. As hard as I try not to be, I AM that tosser! Probably best I don't get a 9-string! I'm already too ego-centric.

I understand that Keith Jarrett thinks any music over and above that of the solo performer will inevitably require compromise. I guess its is true in a way but I see music as a communal activity because, even if you are a solo performer, the moment the music is out there as sound, its beauty is in the ear of the beholder. There are now two people involved so the debate begins anew. I think the role of the innovator is a lot easier to take a perspective on with hindsight. Remember Stanley Jordan - whatever happened to him? For every innovator who succeeds in moving the art form forward, there are 1,000s taking it up all sorts of blind alleys. Who is to say who is right, other than a concensus? I just think that the debate is more important than the outcome!

Hi Geordie - Felixstowe jazzer here! Welcome to Basschat! Never heard of any of your favourites but I guess you'll have never heard of mine either!!!

A flat - it makes more sense as an A flat major scale than G sharp. Simply put, if you think all seven note (octave) scales should have an A B C D E F G. A G sharp scale reads G sharp, A Sharp, C, C sharp, D sharp, E shap G, G sharp. So it has 2 cs and 2 Gs and would be a nightmare to read using conventional staff notation. If you make it A flat you have and A flat, B flat, C, D flat, E flat, F, G A flat. Much better in my head and on paper! Make sense? So, its a D flat pentatonic (penta = five notes including the root (tonic), hence D flat, E flat, F (major 3rd so its a major pentatonic), A flat, B flat. 5 notes = pentatonic). In fact, most pentatonics work against more than one major scale and a D flat pentatonic is equally useful against both a D flat (C sharp) scale, a G flat (F sharp) scale and an A flat (G sharp) major scale. So we are all right!!

Crazykiwi - I think that most popular music, as it is presented in the mainstream media, IS s**t. I don't believe that as an absolute (so don't be coming back at me for that) but, if you watched primetime tv and listened to the radio between the hours of 8 a.m. and 9 p.m., no piece of music would ever last more than 3.20, no-one over 25 would ever sing, no-one would ever play a solo, most genres wouldn't exist etc, etc. Ask yourself this; how much of the music I like did I hear first on the radio or television? I bet its a small percentage. My point is that consensus is sometimes a great way of ensuring mediocrity.

I started it! I HAVE learned some stuff I didn't know and seen some players I previously hadn't (which has, in turn, put me in touch with some more etc) so I got a lot out of the debate. I have seen some great young players and been inspired to look at practising again (complacency had set in). I won't be looking for a 9-string in the near future but nor will I discount them as a credible tool in the production of music. Just a little point to consider. Progress is never achieved by people who agree - only by people who argue, discuss and debate. If everyone agreed, there would be no need to innovate. Don't ever settle for concensus, for the middle ground. That's why national television is so sh**.

Actually the pain thing is a, err, pain. I get all sorts of aches and pains as I get older; shoulders aching, hands and arms sore etc. I don't get blisters but my finger tips do get sore when I play too intensely. I guess the problem relates to freelancing and doing some gigs that are a breeze and then, intermittently, doing a longer gig or one with harder, faster grooves or more solo space. Your body doesn't recover as quickly as you get older and things that hurt, hurt longer! What I do notice, however, is that, if its a good gig, musically satisfying/exciting etc, I get less pains. I wonder if its a posture thing? If I am bored/disatisfied, I slouch and the pains kick in. I'll have a think about that!! Carry on...

I can wiggle my ears and play the bass with my Dad's teeth. He says they don't taste too good when he put's them back in tho'.

Suzi Quatro...

I guess the answer is ' as far as is economical'. If someone will pay me to play in Australia and will fully fund the trip, I'll do it. If it costs more to travel there than I get paid, it would have to be a REALLY special gig (I have done good gigs for nothing if the music works but I wouldn't do a commercial gig that left me out of pocket). I did a jazz ferstival in Vienne (nr Lyon) once - all expenses paid but no profit margin. Great experience.

It's a variation on a simple C sharp pentatonic starting on the F but missing out the A sharp until the second octave. Or a minor sixth arpeggio with an added 11th? It would read better as flats not sharps (i.e. D flat not C sharp) but I guess typing flats is harder!

Excellent thread, Steve. A perfect foil for YouTube excesses. First thoughts.... Messiaen's 'Quartet for the End of Time' - written by Olivier Messiaen when he was a German prisoner of war in Silesia - the only instrumentalists available were a violinist, cellist and clarinet player. Messiaen wrote a piano part although, at the time of composing, he did not have access to a piano. One did turn up later but it was out of tune and many of the notes stuck. Furthermore, the cello had one string missing! The first performance was given in freezing cold weather at Stalag VIII on 15th January, 1941, to an audience of 5,000 prisoners. Messiaen later said 'Never have I been heard with as much attention and understanding'. Eva Cassidy's version of 'Over The Rainbow' - like many people, I had never heard of her when I saw/heard it first as a video on Top Of The Pops 2. She was already dead by then. Despite my being a card carrying jazz nazi, it was a jaw dropping moment. A particularly profound performance of a well known piece of music. Anything by the bass-less Paul Motion trio Steve mentioned. Saw them live years ago. They really DO sound like that! Drummer Bill Bruford and pianist Patrick Moraz 'Music For Piano and Drums' - the best of both of them. Pat Methenys 'A Map Of The World' - solo guitar & strings - beautiful. The whole soundtrack for the film (a little bit of bass but never more than functional) was written and recorded in a fortnight. Ceiri Torjussen's Flute Octet (you can find it on www.ceiri.com) - Ceiri is an old friend who is now working in Hollywood writing film orchestrations. I like where this thread has taken me. Nice one, Steve.

Been using the Metro for 5 years or more. It's the bollocks. I have a great and consistent sound and many people have commented on it. Yes, it i heavy but I can cope (I am 6' 1" and 15 stone so I guess it'a all relative!!). The eq is so versatile and I use the combo for jazz, latin, rock and funk gigs aswell a shows and an occasional big band. It does everything I ask it to do and coasts through it. I have never neeeded to put it anywhere near its loudest and, frankly, would fear for my chest cavity if I did. Recomended 100%

Been here, done that (projectile) but I had to clean it up myself. Spent the rest of the gig sleeping in the car. Still got paid tho'. VERY long night!