muttley

[quote name='LITTLEWING' timestamp='1327953574' post='1519460'] IMO it all boils down to two simple things - your and your ears. If you like the sound and playability of a sub £300 instrument, buy the bloody thing. [/quote] I'm no expert but surely this is the crux of the matter. An amplified solid body instrument has to support its strings and allow the player to vibrate them accordingly. The rest is down to the electronics (leaving aesthetic considerations aside). Therefore, if a bass is reasonably well put together, has a good action (or can be set up such that it has) and stays in tune what more do you need? If the pickups etc are a bit naff it's a relatively easy job to replace them.

Have you sorted any more lessons? I saw from your intro post that you have done a course but you may find that having some more lessons will refresh your memory and perhaps introduce you to other techniques etc. Can you read music? I know opinion is divided on whether this is necessary but IMO it is an enormous benefit. I'm sort of in the same boat as you (albeit a couple of years younger ) as I (re)started playing only about 8 months ago and I'm enjoying it immensely. I'm not sure either where this will take me...

[quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1327484542' post='1511894'] Basically copyright subsists as soon as the work is recorded in material form, which is generally drawings, but can relate to works of artistic craftsmanship, e.g. sculptures, works of artistic craftsmanship... which I imagine Jens could seek protection under. The onus would be on Jens to show copying which could be easy/tough depending on the circumstances. [/quote] That's an interesting observation. Ritter basses are hardly generic objects and (beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that) could certainly be categorised as works of sculpture or related artisanship. As you've probably guessed, I don't work in IP. However, in my job (product development and R&D) I had to have a good working knowledge of the patent process but other IP issues did crop up from time to time.

FTR, you can't copyright an object. Copyright exists in the [i]drawings[/i] for that object, as it does in any other creative work. It doesn't matter what's on the drawing, original or not. Therefore, if a Chinese copyist company created Engineering drawings of a Ritter (or any other) bass then the Chinese company would own the copyright to that drawing. Sounds odd, I know, but that's how it works. A similar analogy is the copyright protection afforded to [i]recordings[/i] of cover versions of songs. Products are protected by [url="http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/design/d-about/d-designright/d-designright-get.htm"]Design Right[/url]. This works in a similar way to copyright but it is separate IP. AFAIK, Design Right is a fairly recent development. Of course, this only applies if the Chinese recognise international laws on the protection of IP. I'm not sure about that bit. HTH .

It's not "fancy maths", just basic arithmetic. I've also made some big assumptions hence my question mark at the end of my final sentence. IANAE but I have at least tried to compare apples with apples (even if they are still different varieties ). Just complaining that they have gone up in price is meaningless; everything else has gone up too. [quote name='eude' timestamp='1327058529' post='1505736'] Regardless of all the fancy maths, plain and simple, these basses are just "too expensive" now [/quote] I agree with you on that point. But surely they have always been expensive?

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1327052398' post='1505584'] Blimey!!! I saw the price of a new Thumb! It's now more expensive that my MTD 535!!! I bought mine in 2002 when it retailed for £2050. It's now retailing at £2700!!! Are you serious...really?? How did a stock model gain £650 in 10yrs? [/quote] Inflation. £2050 in 2002 is equivalent to £2665 today. Therefore, no real price increase. [quote name='eude' timestamp='1327054833' post='1505629'] I paid £1300 for a Thumb Bolt-On back in 1998, mainly because I'd idolised Warwick basses for so long. In hindsight, I don't really think it was worth £1300, and no way a modern equivalent is worth £2300! [/quote] This, OTOH, doesn't work out. £1300 from 1998 is worth £1,859 today so that model has gone up by nearly 24% . There's also the change in the exchange rate to consider. 10 years ago the Euro rate was about 1.6. It's now only about 1.2. That's a decrease of around 25%. Does that mean the first example has gone [i]down[/i] in price and the second one remained about the same?

When I was looking for a teacher for my daughter all those I contacted offered a free trial session. Definitely worth asking in future.

Violin - classically trained to grade 8. I still play. This got me into guitar in my teens and I dabbled a bit on bass but although I played in a couple of bands I was never serious in either. Fast forward 20+ years and I'm playing bass again. However, I still find these fret things a bit alien to me

Showing again on Friday Dec 30 2011 at11:30 pm. Thanks, MythTV .

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1323345126' post='1462185'] Here's a thought, what about going and having lessons BEFORE picking a bass? Pick a teacher with a good selection of basses and make the teacher clear that you want help picking a bass that sounds and suits you best. [/quote] That's very good advice. Most people wouldn't go and buy a premium-level car without ever having driven. I borrowed a Squire P initially. Nice bass but I decided it wasn't for me so I bought something totally different.

For £1500 you could buy at least 5 decent s/h basses of varying styles and configurations. Live with them for a few months and decide which type/style/config you like best, then sell them all on and buy a really good or upgraded example of what you like most. You won't lose much money in the process and what little you do you can consider as the cost of gaining that valuable experience. I re-started playing last Spring. I looked on here, numerous other websites and my local music shops and ended up with a really good buy on eBay for much less than I was expecting to have to pay. Good luck.

Interesting. I had a look at the datasheet for the driver mentioned by the OP but didn't notice the definition of Xmax (basic arithmetic, Klippel, or otherwise).

I quite like the look of [url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/vox-amplug-bass-guitar-headphone-amp--57462"]this[/url] for practice, since it plugs straight into the instrument for convenience. Anyone got one?

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1322105918' post='1446597'] Eminence use Klippel Analysis, which is more accurate than plate minus coil. But at best the Celestion figure might go up by 20% with a Klippel figure, so that 2mm might go up to 2.4mm. [/quote] I'm pretty sure the Celestion figure is based on Herr Klippel's machine (I visited the R&D facility a couple of years ago).

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1318764158' post='1405845'] Actually no. Derived from the Ibanez Affirma which was designed by [url="http://www.rolfspuler.com/gb/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=126"]Rolf Spuler[/url]. And personally I think it looks great. [/quote] The Ibanez Affirma looks OK to me. The EDA 900, OTOH, doesn't. I think it's down to the lower horn that seems to have grown all blobby.

Oh dear.... But use your hand to only view one half of the bass. Each half looks OK on its own, it's only when they are joined together that it becomes an abomination. Design by committee? The headstock was clearly designed by another committee though..

[quote name='Lysdexia' timestamp='1318462677' post='1402626'] It upsets me to look at these. [/quote] That ticks lots of ugly boxes for me too: displeasing shape scratchplate flat headstock (odd shape too) don't like the colour oh, and it has a silly name apparently.

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' timestamp='1318316152' post='1400298'] [/quote] IGMC

I've noticed eBay prices seem quite healthy. Not having ever played one, what are they like for neck dive? The body shape doesn't look like it lends itself to good balance...

Does Ibanez make any fretless models in the SR range? I tried an SR a while back and liked it but it wouldn't make financial sense to have to have it converted to fretless.

Ostentatious, vulgar,ugly and just plain stupid. The "Most Expensive" guitar, OTOH, has some credibility.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1316793548' post='1383060']If it were me, I'd give it away...which is what the seller presumably did.[/quote] Let me know if you are going to do this 'cos I'll take it off your hands.

So, £40 for the bass and £40 for the tuners? I make that £80, plus a bit of your time, for a cracking Japanese-made instrument. Even if you include the price of a new set of strings you've only spent just over £100. You could buy a new bass for £100 but after you've played it it will only be worth £50 on a good day. The Aria will always be worth at least what you paid. I'm not providing justification, just food for thought .

[quote name='alanbass1' post='1375547' date='Sep 16 2011, 02:05 PM']9. representing the high quality of a past time: vintage cars; vintage movies.[/quote] This^. I don't think actual year is relevant at all, provided it is not in the too recent past. Instead, we should point to specific periods in a brand's existence: pre-CBS Fenders is one, Matsumoku-era Japanese instruments is perhaps another. Any comparison with cars etc is invalid, IMO. Car technology and styling has changed significantly over the decades so each period in car manufacture is easily identifiable. OTOH, musical instrument technology is inherently static; an electric bass or guitar made today essentially looks and plays identical to one manufactured 60 years ago.

[quote name='janmaat' post='1373081' date='Sep 14 2011, 12:15 PM']I find that the fingering technique is rather different. On fretted, I use 4 fingers - 4 frets. On fretless, I use a fingering similar to double bass, in that I use index and pinkie much more and ring finger almost never; so a 1:1 transition between the two might be a misleading approach (and is certainly a reason for why guitar players find it hard). Anybody else has something to say about that, would be interesting.[/quote] I can't comment too much on fretted basses as I only (re)started on fretless a few months ago but I use double bass fingering exclusively. Initially it was a bit odd not using the 3rd finger at all for the lower positions but I quickly got used to it and it now comes naturally. I've been a violin player since the age of 10 so using all 4 fingers is natural. In fact lazy violin players can opt out of a lot of 4th finger action, something you cannot really do with DB fingering. I wouldn't have thought it difficult to use "guitar" type fingering on a fretted bass and "bass" type fingering on fretless. They're really different instruments after all. Many musicians play more than one stringed instrument and don't have problems flitting between them so I don't think it would be a problem here either.