Andyjr1515

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1492936888' post='3284161'] Love the thought about white ebony....I'll look into that. At the moment, the fretboard is rock maple. I offered Mick the option of a flame maple but we both agreed that the contrast of flames might make it look a bit fussy. Never though about white ebony, though. I'll have a look. Thanks for the tip [/quote] Mmmm....having looked into it, I don't think white ebony is a goer for this particular build. Although you can sometimes get just the 'white' bit (though more usually it is the spectacular - but not right for this build - black and white), the white is very much a straw colour and considerably darker than the sycamore. Clearly, the woods we are using will darken to an extent as soon as the finish goes on, but something like that - while looking pretty stunning - would be quite a distance away from the original spec.

[quote name='customstocker' timestamp='1492931261' post='3284113'] I mean if the bridge was sunk into the underside then it could have a sliding cover to hide it until it needed tuning. not sure if you would still require the bridge angle or whether it would allow the bridge to sit flat. I guess it depends on how high the bridge is whether or not there would be A. enough space for it to be sunk in & B. enough body thickness to allow the design to work without creating too much stress at this area By the way, I saw a nice fretless last year with a white Ebony fingerboard, this would sit well with what you & Mick have come up with which looks amazing by the way. I can build a pup for this when you have a cavity design in mind in either single coil or full humbucking mode [/quote] Ah - I see where you are coming from. Mick was keen that I tried the Steinberger-ish headless system he sent me if it was feasible. The reason it is angled in the design is two-fold:[list] [*]The tuner block is designed to have a pretty straight string-run coming from the tuner grabs - the strings bind in the block if they are angled to even a mild extent. [*]The strings will exit through the extended fingerboard and over an acoustic-style bone saddle. This will have piezo element strip underneath it. To get the transfer of the vibrations into the body (and the piezo) there is, of course, a break angle needed [/list] So angling the tuner block creates the correct break angle at the bridge and the strings still exit the tuner block parallel to the tuner grabs: Functionally, the mock-up proved the concept. Aesthetically, though, it looks a bit odd left by itself. Hence the wedge that we all were thinking about at the same time as each other - carved from an offcut of the same laminated neck wood - will make it look like it's supposed to be there. Well....at least that's the plan Love the thought about white ebony....I'll look into that. At the moment, the fretboard is rock maple. I offered Mick the option of a flame maple but we both agreed that the contrast of flames might make it look a bit fussy. Never though about white ebony, though. I'll have a look. Thanks for the tip Oh and Mick told me you are a good guy to talk to if we did consider custom pickups! I'll drop you a PM

[quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1492883865' post='3283910'] Or go with a 51 P pickup, which is pretty much just the coil former and slugs, got to be smaller than that mini-humbucker. If noise is the concern add a second dummy coil just aft of the pickup? [/quote] Actually, even if you snip off the fixing screws on the bottom board (which I will also do with the mini), the 51 P is wider than the mini humbucker! It was a surprise to me also when I was looking around at options.... The reduced width of the 51-P is 73mm and the mini with adjustable poles is 70mm. The mini without the poles is even less at 68mm, but I think those poles will give an important couple of mm closer to the strings under the hatch.

[quote name='customstocker' timestamp='1492892270' post='3284007'] what would be altered strength wise if the bridge was lowered into a routed cavity on the underside under a "patch box" which slid out for tuning ? this might relieve the angle of the strings going through to the bridge saddle on top. . [/quote] Based on the rig, I think the bridge works fine...but maybe could be better? Not quite following what you're suggesting...can you expand a bit?

And by the magic of a click of the fingers (and a warm bandsaw) here we are back in business: I've got some 6mm ebony in my bits box that I will cut tomorrow and add the extra neck splices Now better go and get ready for tonight's gig!

Yes - I think we have a solution that meets all the criteria, even if we have to stick with a conventional mini-humbucker. Because having the neck continuity is important to Mick, I can take the legs off the pickup to lose a bit of height and width (it won't be going anywhere!) and route the chamber from the top. The fretboard (which if you remember is sanded flush with a corresponding radius of the body) will have a small hatch cut into it. This was the mockup - pretend this short section is even shorter and is removable: So on the bass itself, the hatch would be somewhere like this (I've also marked the 24th fret just to illustrate its position): That give around 6mm continuous neck under the pickup: BUT, if nothing else was done, there would also need to be an extension of the hatch into the body wings (marked in light pencil), simply because the pickup is wider than the neck. So, adding three 'great minds think alike' together, add two more ebony splices over the length the body attaches to the neck, represented by these two gaps (ignore the upside down pickup): And this does two things - now the body wings are further apart than the pickup is wide AND, there is an additional full-depth bridging of the remaining thickness from those additional ebony neck splices across the pickup chamber and all the way through to the tailstock. The fretboard will simply widen by 6mm each side over the body sections and so there will just be that small inconspicuous hatch as in the second photo above. I have enough offcut of the laminated neck blank to cut a second neck and will not need to route the pickup chamber before we have an answer on individual coils, if they turn out to be an option By the way, Mick - when you talk to potential custom winders, remember that the maximum depth they can be is 20mm if they are to remain hidden... Either way, we're back on track

[quote name='LowMoFo' timestamp='1492798614' post='3283367'] "...I believe in Andy..." We ALL believe in Andy!! [/quote] No - to be honest, the main thing is whether Mick is comfortable with the progressing and final balance of desirables vs compromises. And actually, in one of our regular PM discussions today, it is clear that one of Mick's higher desirables is to be as close to a true neck-thru as possible. I should have spelt out more clearly the actual impact of going for a hidden magnetic pickup on a neck-thru build and, now he's seen how I would go about solving this problem, he's not entirely sure about it. That is no problem whatsoever. Every unconventional build will have at least one of these major decision points...and there may be more to come, folks There are a number of options which would simply put the neck-thru part of the spec on a higher priority footing. Clearly there are maybe then compromises elsewhere in the spec - but this is how these types of project work. The result of the process will be something that we are both delighted with. Normally, the threads wouldn't show the think / act / review / rethink process - but it does happen with many if not most of the more ambitious projects and I'm more than happy to show the whole process. And the doctors assure me that Mick will be able to leave the oxygen tent very shortly

OK - that's confused everyone Whether you start off with a complete neck and route the pickup chamber (possible) and the angled tuner block slot (in practical terms, not possible) the result is the same - you will be routing right through the neck in two places: Here: ....and here: The pickup, installed from the back, will go into a chamber like this, with a flush cover that matches the stripes of the neck: The reason I have cut the neck and will 'assemble' the chamber rather than rout it is that the position of the neck to the body wing is going to be absolutely critical on this design and it is much, much easier to get that right a piece at a time. In any event, the angled slot for the tuner block will need to be done like this... Does that clarify what I'm talking about or just make it more confusing?

[quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1492780003' post='3283173'] Andy, you are aware that you're going to have to do something even more bonkers than this bass, to top this one, aren't you? [/quote] I think I may well have found the edges of the envelope on this one, Bryan

Remember when I said that off-the-wall designs like this are a series of compromises held together with hope? I've learned over the builds to try as far as possible to stick with the original brief and not pre-empt issues with a more practical solution and thus potentially stifling the originality of the concept. In management babble, I suppose it is termed 'pushing the envelope to its limits'... Here's an example of where everything plots against everything that put's the 'should work fine' firmly into the 'might not work at all' territory: Add[list] [*]Serious offset [/list] to[list] [*]Hidden magnetic pickup [/list] then add [list] [*]ultra-slim body [/list] equals: When you leave the bits of wood out that don't actually contribute to the strength, you see more clearly that the only thing holding the neck on is this joint here: Then add the next ideal of a continuation of the neck profile along that joint.... ....which makes that joint line even thinner... My thoughts at the design stage were, and still are:[list] [*]It should be theoretically be strong enough [*]It will, however, need to be a pretty perfect joint [*]For belt and braces, a couple of hardwood dowels, might be in order: [/list] [list] [*]or (my preference) a thin-ply jointing biscuit: [/list] Now I can actually see it in the flesh, I can work out which one is favourite ...and now you are probably reminded why I called this thread 'A bridge too far?'

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1492638566' post='3281977'] Anyone who comissions a bass from Andy will quickly realise that he is almost telepathic whe it comes to mulling over ideas or suggestions. It happened so many times when we were discussing the progress of my build. The Mouradian style. Which I have to say still feels like my best new toy for years. [/quote] Thanks, Nic

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1492628323' post='3281842'] My thinking, in effect, this: [url="http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/FairfaxAikman/media/bridge%20wedge_zpszaxyekp8.png.html"][/url] Would add support to the bridge, look ornate and be an ideal place to add your logo. [/quote] Phew - yes, we're talking about the same thing

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1492621330' post='3281734'] I thought that JPJ meant an ornate wedge supporting the back of the bridge - possibly glued to the back of the neck. Correct me if I'm wrong. [/quote] Ah.....a mystery! I like mysteries

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1492618157' post='3281708'] See...told you Andy was a genius. [/quote] Ah....but only if we are talking about the same thing....otherwise Andy is probably a bit of a letdown I'm assuming you both mean here:

[quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1492617388' post='3281694'] That tuner assembly is just crying out for a nicely carved piece of neck laminate in behind it 'wedge' fashion [/quote] [quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1492617519' post='3281698'] I wish you hadn't said that...planted all sorts of ideas in my head...I think you may be right. [/quote] I'm ahead of you both....already planned

Mick has sent me the neck profile measurements of his favourite player so that, as far as possible, I can replicate the general 'feel': Ahead of gluing anything together, I've also done some sketches to get my head around how the single-cut transition of the neck will work: In the meantime, I've done a bit of work to the neck - routing the truss rod slot and band-sawing the taper. Single cuts throw an interesting challenge ref the taper, more of which later when you see what I'm planning with the fretboard

Sims Custom have a pretty comprehensive price list on their web site that is useful for seeing where the pro shops are likely to see the cost / value. Shopping around over the years, pro jobs seem to be usually in the £200 - £350 range, for a standard job starting with a body pretty much ready to spray. Spray canning yourself can easily top £100 (plus the essential respirator PPE) if you are using decent supplier's products.

Ref your comments that weight has been an issue with a number of your previous builds, have you got any thoughts how to keep this one light?

[quote name='Joebethell' timestamp='1492525154' post='3280926'] Just a thought and might not be a good idea but have you seen the round individual coil pickups that were used by Gordon Smith(think it was the gypsy bass) so you could adjust each strings response. Maybe someone could replicate a version of this to give you adjustment with the coils closer to the string? [/quote] Yes - good thought and I did look at something like this as a fallback option. My conclusion was that, if I could get close enough with conventional I would go with that, but if I couldn't, then something of that nature would have been a worthy option to investigate. I think with the distances I am able to achieve, then conventional [i]should[/i] be fine.

The sound of steel on wood : ...and all of a sudden we have something that looks like a bass :

[quote name='Jabba_the_gut' timestamp='1492465004' post='3280543'] I've put the first coat of oil on, I'm quite pleased with how the colours have come out so far. [/quote] That is flippin' gorgeous!

Teal with no pickguard would be my choice. I love teal guitars and basses

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1492448477' post='3280336'] With my last build from Andy I couldn't wait for the next update...with this one I know that the more I wait, the closer I am to the finished product, whether it's because he's solving potential problems or manipulating wood... You boy!!...yes, you with the smutty mind!!...back of the class now!! [/quote]

OK - hidden magnetic pickup proven. Forgive the tatty softwood prototype, but this is broadly how the mini-humbucker would fit at the back, with a flush cover matching the neck splices: ...and then from the top without the fretboard fitted - and remember that the real one will have screw poles: Then for the fretboard - to cut a channel for the pole pieces to screw out without breaking through the fretboard top - the old carved archtop trick: Which means, even in this soft knotty pine, I can cut a slot within 1.5mm of the radiused fretboard top: So now imagine the pole-pieces have been raised 2-3mm, nestling in the slot just cut : ...and we have:[list] [*]A fretboard flush with the body carve [*]The main coil c. 7mm from the strings [*]The coil slugs c. 4mm from the strings [/list] I reckon that will do it

Final thing to sort before I start gluing and cutting properly is the hidden magnetic pickup. The challenge here is that the body is very thin to start with and gets thinner very quickly as you move away from the centre-line. Add to this the challenge of getting the coil as close to the strings as possible and you can probably see where I'm coming from. The original concept was this: I did some experiments with various metal bits (slugs and bars) laying across the top of the pickups of my fretless and came to a number of conclusions:[list] [*]Built-in adjustable slugs are better than close proximity metal as pictured above [*]If it IS separate, then a rectangular iron bar across the top of the pickup is better than individual slugs [*]All of the above do increase the volume, but you still need the coil itself to be as close as possible to the strings to get the tone as well. [*]The ideal pickup therefore needs to have adjustable slugs, be narrow and be slim [/list] So Mick's MEC, nice though it is, is probably not the one. Here's how wide and deep it is compared with, say, the mini pickup for an EB-3: It extends way past the width of the fretboard, reducing the maximum pickup height by a few mm, it is 28.5mm deep against 19.5mm of the mini humbucker (the body depth at the centre is likely to be 30mm max) and doesn't have adjustable slugs. My fear is that any advantage of a nice pickup would be lost - and some - by the extra distance it would be from the strings. My thoughts at the moment, if I can't find anything else, is to use the adjustable slug version of the above mini & that I fitted to Pete's EB-3 style build last year: The curve of the body top in the drawing below is exaggerated for illustrative purposes but I think it explains what I mean....: I'll do a bit more thinking and research and then bounce the options off Mick. And then it's SAWDUST TIME, FOLKS!!!!