Andyjr1515

OK, folks I've done a few experiments up to the point that MrsAndyjr1515 has 'reminded' me that there are more pressing things to do today I've basically wired it like this (as far as my little brain can work out): ...which my newly acquired education tells me is a Band Stop Filter. The results are interesting, and I think as the notch filter has been described:[list] [*]With a 100k resistor, definitely different to the mudbucker alone. Similar to the bucker with the tone turned right down, but less boomy. Very quiet in comparison, though. [*]With 2off 100k resistors in parallel (ie 50 ohms?) it is louder - not as loud as the clean mudbucker but again bassier, fluffier but without the boom of the bucker with tone right down [*]With no resistor, similar in volume and tone to the mudbucker with the tone wound right down [/list] If I have understood the theory right of what the notch is trying to do and what the resistor is doing within it, I think the above is what could be predicted? Anyway - must go and do some other stuff!

[quote name='samhay' timestamp='1476953614' post='3158690'] Nice build! As I understand it, the varitone is a notch filter. You can get a RLC notch filter with a resistor, inductor and capacitor in [u]series[/u]. If you put the 22n cap and the transformer in series (to ground) then 22n and 1.5H will give you a notch at about 880 Hz. Any series resistance will not change the frequency, just make the notch less deep. So - I suggest you lift one leg of the 100k resistor (so it is out of circuit) and see how it sounds. Edit - just realised your transormer is parallel to the cap and resisotor too. If you disconnect the resistor and cap and then splice the cap between the volume pot and rotarty switch, you will get everything in series. [/quote] Great - it'll only take a few minutes to do that. To be honest, it's one of the reasons I decided to put the three components on a bit of veroboard so I could chop and change to try different things (and correct inevitable errors ). I'll try it later this morning I have made a mental note to do a bit more reading on electrical circuits! In our family when we were youngsters, I only understood things that moved and my brother only understood things that didn't - that's why I ended up as a mechanical engineer and he ended up as an electronics engineer

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1476944955' post='3158620'] Well this is the first one I've attempted, but the approach I took was to make an mdf template, double stick tape the plastic to the template, then use a flush trim bit in the router table (got a cheap one from aldi!) followed by a chamfer bit to cut the bevel. Worked pretty well but I had to experiment with the depth of cut on some scrap to get the bevel looking right. I suspect the same approach would work with a hand held router, but I'd probably make a thicker template so it could be stuck securely to the bench without the bearing fouling, and possibly add a sacrificial thin mdf board on top to avoid marking the plastic with the router base. There are some pretty good tutorials of the router table method on YouTube which is how I figured it out, good luck! [/quote] In any terms, let alone a first try, I think that's a splendid job...

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1476914157' post='3158530'] Your understanding is correct in my world of Physics / Electronics, you have described a notch filter. They have a very interesting looking varitone wiring diagram for the 'CT' bass on the website. Might be useful? http://www.guitar-mod.com/wiring/ctimages/ctbass_wiring.gif [/quote] Yes - saw that and took a copy of it for my 'just in case' file. Couldn't quite work out what is going on (there seems to be some connections missing as far as my little brain can make out) but might be a better way of getting three more usable sounds than what I'm trying at the moment

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1476912030' post='3158497'] I don't know if it has any relevance, but the outfit in the states that sell an 'improved' Eb-3 pre wired loom (can't remember their name but I'll post a link in a bit) apparently aim for a 800hz mid point...they don't say how they achieve that, though ... [/quote] Got that wrong. The site is here, Rothstein Guitars http://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_eb3.html I think what they are saying is that is is supposed to be a notch that lets all frequencies though except the target range? Their range they say they are trying to block are the frequencies around the 800hz, if I've understood their blurb correctly.

Based on the fact that I now have a feed from the neck hot to where the c/r circuit joins terminal 6, does my circuit look right in terms of getting the filter working in the first place, regardless of the frequencies it is letting through?

I don't know if it has any relevance, but the outfit in the states that sell an 'improved' Eb-3 pre wired loom (can't remember their name but I'll post a link in a bit) apparently aim for a 800hz mid point...they don't say how they achieve that, though ...

Looks splendid. I'm attempting to make a pickguard shortly. I find them a right pain! Do you have any tips and tricks?

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1476878343' post='3157986'] [/quote] ...which might give you a clue as to one of the other ones.....

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1476872419' post='3157906'] [/quote] ...which might give you a clue as to who is one of the aforementioned...

Thanks, folks Showed the progress to Pete last night - he's delighted with it (phew) He's a good player - it sounded great! It's light, it balances beautifully, the neck is the same profile as his favourite bass and it looks quite classy in the flesh Very few things to do now: - re-stain the neck. Easy job. I tried a variation on my experiments with the slurry method which didn't really work, so I'll redo it the way I did my LP junior so that the buffing doesn't start to reach the mahogany (which is what it's doing at the moment) - sort the varitone notch or alternatives for switch positions 4-6 - fit round-wounds - fit the brass nut that should be arriving in the post today - get him a hard case On the basis that there's plenty of time for those jobs before his November birthday, I've started getting my head round a couple of smaller mods and a very exciting full build, all for Basschat members . I'll kick off threads at the appropriate times Oh...and after I've finished those, then Pete wants me to build him ANOTHER bass...piccolo (c 25" scale, to boot...maybe fanned frets...)!!!!

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1476785128' post='3157152'] In fact, have I spotted the error? Presumably the notch circuit is supposed to be a bleed off the main volume? I've realised, I have the feed from the neck p/up in positions 4 / 5 & 6 ONLY going through the capacitor/resistor circuit. Presumably I should be taking a line direct from the volume hot to the 6 \\ position on the rotary switch? It'll take 2 mins - I'll try it [/quote] OK - well I think that has worked to an extent. In position 4 (intended to be neck going through notch filter using full primary induction coil) I now have a sound that is different to the other positions, more trebly and lower volume (bit like the equivalent of putting a mute on a trumpet) but OK. The other two positions still lose most of the volume. But I'm still not convinced I've got the notch circuit right... - or if it is, I might use the other switch positions in a different way Whatever, it is an interesting diversion. Also - in all other ways - I'm really pleased how the bass is turning out. I've been playing it this morning and it sits so nicely both on the strap and on the knee and, with the neck volume at about 9 and bridge on 10, the three main position sounds are phenomenal. Can't wait to get the proper nut on and hear it through a bass amp Final tweak I might do is take the neck back down to wood and restain/reoil it....I've got it silky smooth but I've gone a little too enthusiastic with the slurry and buffing and the mahogany colour is showing through a bit through the dye. I might try Pete out with it first, because it is lovely to play and he might prefer it as it is.

In fact, have I spotted the error? Presumably the notch circuit is supposed to be a bleed off the main volume? I've realised, I have the feed from the neck p/up in positions 4 / 5 & 6 ONLY going through the capacitor/resistor circuit. Presumably I should be taking a line direct from the volume hot to the 6 \\ position on the rotary switch? It'll take 2 mins - I'll try it

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1476725506' post='3156696'] What value choke are you using? IIRC the Gibson circuit diagrams only give a Gibson part number rather than the actual value of the choke. When I built my first electric guitar in 1979, I fitted a varitone that used every version I could find circuits for because I wanted to use all 11 positions on the speed knob I had. TBH most of them sounded crap and there was a significant volume loss on all but the most subtle variations. [/quote] [quote name='3below' timestamp='1476725918' post='3156703'] A further element of subterfuge / chicanery was alleged on the part of Gibson: The inductance values were stated incorrectly on the circuit diagrams to mislead other manufacturers. I have picked up this statement from internet research so it may have no credence whatsoever. Do you have a multimeter that will measure inductance? [/quote] My head goes squiffy when I try to get it round the difference between henrys and ohms inductance value It is a 1.5H induction coil with induction values quoted at 4k ohm primary (presumably therefore 2k ohm tapped) and 600 ohm secondary coil. In terms of resistance, they are quoted as 148 ohms primary and 64 ohms secondary. I've got a 100k resistor and 0.022uF capacitor making up the rest of the circuit I think I need to check my components wiring diagram against the original circuit diagram before I do anything else (and double check I actually physically wired it up that way!). This is the components diagram I used: If one of you can give it a glance for a quick sanity check that would be great

I should explain, by the way, that the sound clips are through my 6-string electric practice amp...it serves only to illustrate the sound differences rather than the absolute!

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1476703726' post='3156389'] Cracking job mate. I shall remember they're Swifts from now on too! [/quote] No problem The brass nut arrived this morning................. but it was a 6-string electric. Hopefully a replacement is on the way. Two bits of further progress: Popped a strap button on the back and did a few checks. Great news - a more conventional strap button position is fine and it balances and sits beautifully Second bit of progress, I did a few quick soundclips - [url="https://soundcloud.com/andy-rogers-6/eb-3-style-custom-bass-sound-files"]this is Bridge; Both; Neck[/url] No point in trying the notch settings yet - you would hear my breathing louder than what's coming out of the amp

OK - the 'almost finished' shots. Please forgive the self-indulgence :

Well, I award myself the honour of Andyjr1515's neatest wiring job ever (you need to see some of my others to realise how significant this is ). This is it, fully wired up and ready to play: OK - that's some of the good news out of the way But wait! There's more good news. It works! Moreover, the Model One neck pickup is unbelieveable! The 'cheap as chips but looks right' Artec also is really and seriously not bad at all. OK - hmmm - the notch filter. The good news here is that it does make three different sounds. But the volume is c 10% of the clean pickups. I'm not sure whether that is how I've wired it up or the values of components I've used. I'll double check the I've actually wired it to diagram and then consult with folk (3below springs to mind ) what understand these things a lot better than what I do... Overall, though, with a month to go before Pete's birthday and just the notch circuit and nut to sort (plus I might re-dye and finish the neck), well pleased. I'll post a few 'almost finished' shots soon

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1476694665' post='3156268'] As expected, looking fantastic. You wouldn't believe how many comments i get about the birds that you use on the headstock. People ask me what they are, and as i cant remember what you said (Swifts or Swallows??) i make a new one up everytime I do always point them in the direction of your website though [/quote] Thanks, Kert! They're swifts - my favourite bird and one which, to our family, hails summer. We have had swifts nesting in the eaves since we moved in here (30 odd years ago). We were bothered in the last couple of years because we were down to two nests of which one was abandoned. This year, though, we've had four If you've never been close to a flock of swifts when they are tearing round the buildings at crazy speeds screaming away (probably scaring themselves s******s) then it's something to put on the bucket list. Nearest natural thing to the sound of a full and fast rollercoaster Sometimes they miss you so close you feel the waft of air as they go past

I love these basses. Great restoration project, Grangur

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1476684551' post='3156182'] I suspect the 0.02uF is a consequence of the Gibson notch filter design intention rather than a 'standard' tone capacitor. Do you know what the inductance of your choke is?. I would be interested in modelling what the circuit is intended to do. [/quote] The full primary is 1.5H (I have the data sheet and will look at the other coil and option details also). The resistor is 100k

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1476651374' post='3156058'] Choke capacitor 0.02 uF which translates to 20nF. I wonder if a 20pF would have any audible effect (it is too late in the evening to do the maths out and work it out ). Soundclips awaited [/quote] Thanks, 3below Glad you posted this. The 0.02uF is one of the 'standard' tone values? I thought the one I'd put on the board was the same (pretty sure it was out of a PRS), but looking closely, it's marked 0.22uF. Weird! Anyway, I'll swop it for a 0.022uF orange drop in the morning just in case

Phew - nice to have a sit down I've been standing up in my cellar / workshop pretty much all day. Some of these 'little jobs' take so long! Made decent progress, though. The c****d up tuner positions have been corrected with only a modest angle of the E and G strings (ignore the cobbled up nut - waiting for the brass nut to arrive): Control and pickup chambers have been screened and earthed: The wiring diagram has been redrawn in component form: ...and all but the p/ups themselves have been wired up: I've got to insulate the couple of veroboards with the notch filter components, but then just solder the pickup hot and grounds in Everything here is earthed via the copper screening - including the bridge. It makes for a much tidier control chamber! I've got grave doubts that I have the correct value of capacitor in the notch filter (I think I may have mixed up my nanos and picos) but that is a 5 minute swop of components if it's wrong). I should be able to try out the sounds tomorrow

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1476552561' post='3155177'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Witch...WITCH!!! Burn the witch!![/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Another amazing piece of work Andy...that finish is beautiful...I'm sure that if Pete isn't happy there'll be a queue of BCers happy to take it off your hands.[/font][/color] [/quote] It's turned out not half bad hasn't it, Mick

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1476552764' post='3155180'] Alternate zero fret / nut thought. You could widen the zero fret slot to (3mm? 1/8" ?) and fit a Fender type nut at the zero fret. Not in keeping with the EB3 vibe but probably a simpler solution. If you used black acetal (aka Delrin) it would not stand out much and could be followed by whatever nut you were originally planning. Other alternatives to acetal could be nickel silver or brass plate. If this was slotted (and probably glued) in it could be levelled and crowned. Apart from the side view in the fingerboard it would present as a higher fret, same frontal profile and appearance. [/quote] Decent thought but I think I will just go for a nut. As I say, if the fretboard slotting hadn't had the zero fret datum, I'd have done that happily enough anyway. That way I can also ignore that the fretboard itself is probably lower than it should be and fit it in the time honoured way of measuring the gap at the 1st fret when fretted at the second On that basis, I have ordered a brass nut that should be with me early next week. I've tru-oil slurry and buffed the neck, I've smoothed, oiled and buffed the ebony fretboard and I've final-polished the body and so I THINK it's just the electrics to do now... This coming week should see completion