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Everything posted by Andyjr1515
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Tru-oil and slurry technique with stains
Andyjr1515 replied to Andyjr1515's topic in Repairs and Technical
[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1468603262' post='3092121'] I had a look back over my photos from when I did the Jazzmaster body. I had remembered wrongly - it was a spirit based stain that I used. I didn't try wet sanding until I had several coats on already, as I was also a bit apprehensive of going through the stain. The colour has held just fine, and it hasn't stained any shirts. Here's a pic from several coats in. [/quote] Great stuff -
Tru-oil and slurry technique with stains
Andyjr1515 replied to Andyjr1515's topic in Repairs and Technical
[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1468608375' post='3092163'] Those look lovely and might well inspire me to finally get around to a project I've been meaning to do for ages. I have never done anything with oils on wood until very recently, so I know nothing at all about it. The stuff I used was Danish oil, is that anything like Tru-oil? I didn't use the Danish oil on a guitar, but I have got a headless Flying V that has a lovely grain on it. It was originally translucent red, but I stripped it, and after years of being buggered about with (it was purple and silver at one point (at the same time...)) a mate finally painted it banana yellow for me, but it's really badly done, so I want to strip it again and do a proper job of it with something that will show the grain well. The wood is a pale one (don't know what it is) with a nice dark grain. I used the Danish oil on pine and I love the way it came out. [/quote] Danish oil is absolutely fine. Tru-oil, in my personal opinion, is even better. It certainly seems more versatile in terms of the different finishes you can get out of it. -
Tru-oil and slurry technique with stains
Andyjr1515 replied to Andyjr1515's topic in Repairs and Technical
[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1468434026' post='3090936'] Regarding Diamine ink, I did a series of colour fastness tests. The "Ruby" red was very good and hardly faded at all. I had much more variable results with the four different shades of blue that I tested. I ended up settling on spirit based dye from Rothko and Frost [/quote] Sorry for the delay, I got a bit distracted over the past couple of days. Is it worth outlining your experiments, Norris? For t'others, Norris and I have been comparing notes on another forum on using ink for staining and he has gone about it much more scientifically than me . On my long, long list of 'to do's' is to write to Diamine to find out if they have any fade statistics or categories for the various colours. Personally, I have never had an issue with any type of ink I've used - and with guitars and basses that have been on my sun-soaked bedroom wall for years - but there may be issues with certain colours or certain makers. Anyway - the experiment is more about using tru-oil with whatever stain. The Les Paul above uses Chestnut spirit stain, which is widely thought to be a woodworker's industry standard and that is the one I'll be able to get the real life gigging test results on ref whether the neck leaves a great big stain on the owner's hand once things get hot, sweaty and shreddy -
Tru-oil and slurry technique with stains
Andyjr1515 replied to Andyjr1515's topic in Repairs and Technical
[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1468423931' post='3090847'] Those guitars look fabulous. When you say "red ink" for a stain... d'you really mean red ink as in: [/quote] I generally use Diamine fountain pen inks because they have a very wide range of colours (you can buy directly off their web site including free samples) but yes, it's pen ink. Some colours are apparently not as colour-fast as others, but I have had no problems whatsoever across quite a wide range of colours. -
Hi Just an update on some experiments I've been doing over the last couple of months. The 'tru-oil slurry method' is a well known way of filling, sealing and providing a silky smooth satin and thoroughly organic feeling finish on natural woods. It is well documented elsewhere but in brief you:[list] [*]Seal the wood with a coat or two of tru-oil left overnight to set hard [*]Then wet and dry sand wet - but using Tru-oil not water as the 'wet' - to create a tru-oil/wood slurry, then wipe away the excess slurry before it sets [*]Repeat with finer wet and dry but this time wipe off and buff up almost straight away [*]Repeat once or twice more [/list] ...and over two days max, you end up with a FABULOUS finish: Until I tackled Mick 'TheGreek''s alembicesque bass, I had always assumed you couldn't use this technique for stained and dyed wood, as by definition, you are going to sand and slurry off the top surface and, surely, expose the unstained wood underneath. For Mick's bass, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/283510-thegreeks-mystery-bass-rebuild/"]documented in the build thread here[/url] I tried the slurry method on the body to get that 'old but well cared for' look rather than pristine shiny. It worked well: So I've been doing a bit more experimenting - this time including the necks. I did it with a LP Dual Cut Junior 6 string electric I have been finishing (someone else's build) for my own use. This is using red ink on the mahogany body and neck and the same tru-oil slurry variant I used for Mick's: ...and then, for a pal, I've refinished his un-bound white Gibson LPJ: ...added binding and then used the same technique for an inked maple top, a stained mahogany back and a stained maple neck: Both guitars are waiting bits but should be finished next week. That will mean I can check the final unknown - that is, will the slurry stain on the neck rub off onto the players hand when heavily gigged? The LPJ's owner is a VERY regular gigger, so I will probably find out soon....I'll let you know. By the way, even if it does, it is no problem - tru-oil is very unreactive with the polyurethane varnishes I use and therefore I can always satin varnish it over. Incidentally, the DC Junior is planned to be light gloss and so I have already varnished over the experiment on the body, but left the neck unvarnished: What was obvious was how nice a base it was for sealing / varnishing....I might use that in it's own right as a preferred seal / grain fill approach. If you've done anything similar, let me know - I'd be interested in your experiences
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Yes - much too good to hide. It looks great. Super job.
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[quote name='scojack' timestamp='1467798102' post='3086278'] Anybody for another ? Doing a fretted 5 next ..still deciding on whether sold body or semi-acoustic like this one... Ian [/quote] Oh abso-flippin-lutely !
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Stunning! Thats what I call lateral thinking!! Great work
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I'm interested in this because of the revelation I gained when building my first acoustic steel-string relating to the black magic of 'tap tuning' a top when you are carving the braces. I've just been doing some checks on my fretted and fretless solid bass guitars. Here I have been listening to the harmonics produced on ONLY the other three strings when I play D. My method was a sharp pluck at each fret of the D string and immediately mute [i]with two fingers to avoid creating a harmonic on the D, [/i]and then listening for a harmonic ringing out from the E, A or G by muting each one in turn until the harmonic, where I can hear one, abruptly stops. Some REALLY interesting results:[list] [*]Up to the 5th fret on D, almost no harmonics induced in the other three stings [*]5th Fret; strong harmonics on both basses, E on f/less and G on fretted [*]6th Fret; no harmonics on either bass [*]7th Fret; harmonic on A string on both basses [*]8th; harmonic on G on fretless; no harmonic on fretted [*]9th; A on fretless; E on fretted [*]10th; E on fretless; no harmonic on fretted [*]11th; A on both [*]12th; G on both [/list] Worth trying the simple test to see if it is simply the other open strings vibrating at a harmonic frequency. If it is the above, it is probably simply the mark of a good bass. It is the body vibration that sets the strings ringing at the various harmonics. Usually the better the 'tone wood' the more it happens. For electric basses and guitars, this effect is rarely strong enough to come through the pickups and hence the one side of the 'tone wood makes no difference' argument. On an acoustic it is fundamental and critical to the tone and clarity. So in summary, if it is this, don't worry on three counts:[list] [*]It means your bass is made out of decent wood [*]The audience aren't going to hear it [*]When you are playing a riff rather than fretting individual notes, the open string is rarely open long enough for this to be heard even if it could be [/list] It's a long shot but I'd be really interested in the results of your further checks....
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[quote name='adamg67' timestamp='1467272422' post='3082347'] That's it, yeah, and it's a lot more noticeable when playing acoustically - I should dig my mic out and try recording it that way. It probably seems more obvious to me in the soundcloud clip because I know what it sounds like. It's also more obvious compared to much lower notes than I've got in the clip, if you're playing and you run up to a high D it really sticks out. I think it'll need to go to someone who knows what they're doing, I'm just loathe to spend more money on it. [/quote] Two things - diametrically opposed - occur to me in my random musings:[list] [*]If it is purely acoustic and is indeed resonances through the whole body and neck (which acoustic builders like me would give their back teeth for) and doesn't really come through when fully amplified, I wouldn't worry about it because 'it is a good thing'. Indeed, the same characteristics will be actually enhancing the tone through the amp. [/list][list] [*]The other thought is totally opposite. If it is not the body, then something else is resonating. On 6-string guitars, I quite often get this from the nut to tuner stretch of the string. In fact, I pop a buffer - in the shape of a velcro cable tie - on some of my guitars to stop it happening: [/list] Same thing sometimes happens with jazz tail stocks where there is a length of string between the stop tail and the bridge, and also the springs in a Stratocaster tremolo chamber are notorious for doing the same thing. Is there a long run from the nut to the tuners or do you have a string tree?
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I think I can hear what you are describing on the clip, although not totally sure. What I can hear is a reasonable level of resonance that you would hear on, say, a good acoustic 6string. Is it that what you are describing and hearing? Basically a harmonic at the same pitch as the note being played? If you play the bass acoustically, do you still hear it?
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[quote name='Jabba_the_gut' timestamp='1467055423' post='3080882'] Cheers for the comments. I'm continuing on with the other half of this build - had a go at a scarf joint for the first time. Not too bad, not perfectly square but will be fine for what I want. Truss rod arrived for this today so this neck will progress a bit over the next week or so (I hope...!) [/quote] One of the things on my 'must get round to doing it' list is building a scarf routing jig. My attempts at scarf joints are a little bit different to "not perfectly square"...and not in a good way This looks pretty fine to me, Jez, dammit!
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This has finished as it started, Ian....sublime.....simply sublime
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[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1466792702' post='3078947'] Excellent stuff, thank you Hilary and Mick. The blog is now published! (Apologies for taking this long) - check it out here: [url="http://wp.me/p2ZbyY-vO"]http://wp.me/p2ZbyY-vO[/url] As always, let me know about any errors and omissions. [/quote] Great blog, Silvia Many thanks for all of the effort you've put into this Andy (and I'm sure, the rest of us )
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Shallow5 is going to be a stunner, Ian Andy
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Kirk at http://www.exotichardwoodsukltd.com/ (not to be confused with the exotichardwoods.com that Grangur refers to) holds a good stock and photos of all of the tops can be seen on the web site. Pricey mind...just have a look at the acoustic sets section and scroll down to African Blackwood....
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I love the top carve, Bastav. It's going to look stunning once the finish has been applied
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[quote name='scojack' timestamp='1465893482' post='3071831'] Cheers Andy it's Melamine lacquer....brushed on. Ian [/quote] Wow - I never get finishes like that with brushes! Top drawer stuff
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Just re-read the thread...you are planning white?
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Excellent to see the progress on this, Rumple. That looks a decent bit of wood underneath it all. The sections look to be pretty similar colour (sometimes they look like a zebra crossing!). How many sections is it? Also, what colour and finish are you planning?
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[quote name='scojack' timestamp='1465897249' post='3071878'] The two buttons are a nice touch and are brilliant when you dont have a stand. Here's Betsy my beloved Pangborn (early eighties) it had the same thing Im off to sob...this is the bass i should NEVER have parted with (20 years....man and boy !) WWaaaaaaaaaahhhh..... [/quote] Slight thread derail, but that's LOVELY, Ian
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Nice even finish, Ian. What have you used?
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The sheer perfection of the build and finish on Jez's basses is what strikes you first when you see them in the flesh. Remarkable on all levels when you are talking hand built. But there are also some really well thought out design features. For example, a number of us put multiple strap buttons on the tail to offer a player different 'sits' of the bass on the strap. Jez's is the only bass I've ever seen where these allow the base to sit safely upright without a stand. It might seem a small detail, but how many of us struggle with this in venues where space is tight? While the rest of us are looking for a room corner or a radiator to jam the thing against, Jez's will stand up anywhere. Even against the cab. Respect
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Been a bit of a whirlwind since the Herts Bass Bash, but didn't want to forget to thank Mick for being a great customer and a great all round guy. Mick's drive and input was an excellent spur to trying to get the best from the Silk Bass and free gifts kept arriving through the post. The lit up acrylic logo light he gave to me at the bash was completely unexpected and something I will use whenever I'm showing off my wares... All round top guy and pleasure to deal with
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Ooooooooooh! Silk Bass. I like that