Andyjr1515

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1462286662' post='3041779'] Is it me, or is the "spot the difference" answer is the 24th fret is now missing? [/quote] You win today's special prize, roman_sub. The prize is so special, you can't see it, hear it, touch it or smell it....but it's there all the same....trust me I took the 24th out because it was loose and also raised right across its length, making lining up with a levelling beam inaccurate. All the frets will have to come out in any case - they are a very odd shape, most are raised at one or both sides and they seem to have been attacked by aliens. Also the fretboard needs straightening and re-radiusing. Mick and I are pretty sure there have been two builders at work on this bass - the first, a skilled luthier, capable of producing a very fine, technically advanced instrument in an interesting variety of woods; the second, a over-enthusiastic boilermaker, using all the tools at his disposal with gusto (lead mallet, bolster, sledgehammer, plumbers-mate sealant). Those of you who are at the Midlands bash on Saturday will be able to see what we mean...Mick's happy for me to bring it along

A couple more evaluation checks and a bit more progress. Mick wants a Tune-o-matic bridge with stop-tail. Normally, the neck angle in a thru-neck would be predetermined at the build stage, usually with a 3 to 5 degree angle to match the height of a tune-o-matic. This has been built flat-angled for a standard low profile bridge and I needed to calculate whether a T-O-M could be accommodated, both in angle terms and position of the stop tail. I think - with a Warwick-type recess for the T-O-M to drop around 4mm - I can get it low enough with the existing angle. The stop tail will also be low enough for an adequate break angle. The combination will probably cover all but a single row of existing predrilled holes used for the old bridge. I also spent a long time cleaning up the crud in the split between one of the mahogany body sections and the maple layer next to it. I have some HUGE clamping force on this with some very good glue. Based on the squeeze-out and the very thin remaining joint line, I think it's clamped as well as it could be so will be a decent test for stability when the strings are put on for the final strength evaluation: Mick's sending me some tuners and strings this week. It should be ready to string up for the final strength-based feasibility part of this project which will include the effectiveness of the truss rod. That should be done by early next week. If all goes well, the major steps will then be:[list] [*]Strip down, sand, and reform the joint lines [*]Defret and re-radius the fretboard [*]Re shape the neck to accommodate a narrower nut (present is a massive 47.5mm) [*]Refret [*]Route out for pickups and electronics [*]Refinish [*]Reassemble [/list] Fingers crossed it all holds together to render those steps necessary....

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1461313185' post='3033507'] I could bring an NS WAV-4 along too if that would be of interest, and former cellist Mrs Zero. [/quote] Many apologies, tauzero ... completely missed this I'm always interested in seeing these things for real - and it's a super, super design, so if it's not a problem to bring it along, great . On the other hand, I think my own makes a better wall hanging than an instrument and I have no plans to make another one, so don't worry if it's extra hassle. I just can't hold the pesky things properly and they (violins) play havoc with my arthritis! Hence the thoughts on a cello...

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1461261352' post='3033106'] Are Andy and Jabba bringing their latest projects? [/quote] I might bring my own OM Acoustic instead...it would be a beggar if I dropped the dreadnought before I gave it to birthday boy! I'll also bring the new Bubinga fretless (and the veneered VM jag I brought last time)

To most of you, this will look exactly the same...but to me this makes me very, very happy : No crack in the middle. What's more, with lots and lots of weight on either wing trying to intentionally break the back, no movement, no gaps, no creaks. Clearly, it's only when the strings are on under full tension that you know for sure, but I'm beginning to think that this might be strong enough... In the meantime, I'm cleaning up some of the smaller splits on the other side of the back to see if I can stabilise those in a similar way.

I've done a lot of pondering on this and am probably going to go the Andyjr1515 unconventional way. Experienced luthiers might want to look away My logic is this. The conventional approach would be to either:[list] [*]Judge that the bass is irrecoverable [/list] or[list] [*]Take it apart absolutely bit by bit and rebuild [/list] My approach assumes:[list] [*]To attempt to take it apart bit by bit would probably render it irrecoverable anyway [/list] So, the unconventional approach is this:[list] [*]Secure the central split to ensure there is no unplanned parting and splitting of the neck woods while wrestling with the remaining loose body panels. This may be temporary or permanent. [*]Attempt to remove the two remaining water-split body panels. This will confirm if the glue that is still stuck really is as tight a bond and that it is as resistant to 'normal' de-glue and disassembly approaches as I think it might be. [/list] If they come off more easily:[list] [*]dissassemble where necessary and possible [/list] If they don't come off then, rather than abandon the project, instead simply switch to a pragmatic and empirical approach:[list] [*]Floss, clean, glue and clamp the splits [*]Drill a stabilising dowel through the heel laminates [*]Fit (budget) bridge, nut and tuners [*]String it up and check the stability, straightness and adjustability of the neck [*]If it's not OK, proceed no further and knock around the options with Mick [*]If it [i]is [/i]OK, then put the effort into the pickup, electrics and finishing preparation and the financial outlay into the pickups [/list] Whatever, that central split needed to be stabilised: I spent some time this morning carefully 'flossing' with sandpaper until the sawdust from both sides consistently came out wood-coloured (the crack is conveniently all the way through allowing 2' of sandpaper to be pulled through at each stroke ): Then, significant squeeze-in and distribution of Titebond Extend before some serious sash-clamping and screw-clamping. Based on the squeeze-out at both sides, I'm pretty sure the glue got everywhere: Got a gig this evening, so I won't be tempted to touch it until tomorrow

Our old-gits-band have been covering Purple Rain for years...but for the same reason, probably need to drop it for a bit. Pity he couldn't have kept going until one of us beat him to it...can't be too long

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1461541089' post='3035587'] With the grain orientated like that on the back it'd definitely cause issues like seam separation if given half a chance (such as damp conditions). I'd probably replace the back if possible for that reason, as it could happen again! Your guesses on the wood species sound about right to me . Definitely looks like an Ash top with Mahogany and Maple. The back could also be Ash, but it appears to have those white marking low down on the bass side wing. They are an Oak trademark usually and won't be present in Ash. Good luck with it! Look forward to seeing it restored [/quote] I think you're right about the back being Oak. The end grain that can now be seen on the edge of the section I've got off, looks just like Oak end grain.... Thanks for the tip-off

Started the exploratory stages today. These included:[list] [*]Will it be possible to remove the split sections? [*]How strong is the glue that [i]hasn't[/i] failed? [*]Does the truss rod work? [*]Will the neck be usable and, if so, will the neck angle be able to accommodate Mick's preferred Tune-o-matic bridge arrangement. [/list] The first thing to do was to make sure that the split in the body didn't extend all the way up the neck while I was moving things around. Presently, the split in the one thru-neck splice through the body extends to - but thankfully not past - the heel. I put on a violin clamp at the heel that stopped any inadvertent widening of the split from the heel upwards: ...and, when access would allow, clamped the body to try to put minimum strain on the existing crack: My first target was to see just how easily the 'almost off to start with' rear right layer would come off. The answer is - not very easily at all. Considering that 90% of the layer was already showing daylight, the final 10% was an absolute beggar. I tried steam - lots of it at pretty high pressure directly into the gap - using a steam mop adapter: I used a spatula, heated to almost red hot. I used a stiff scraper, again very hot. I used a pull saw, heated. I used stainless steel acoustic side bending sheet: In the end, I got the big bas***d out: Even once I'd got the whole section free at the bottom - and the side was already cracked at the glue joint halfway, like this: ... it still took hot knives, sharp knives and - in the end - a few chisel blows to finally release it: With it having taken me about 4 hours to get this off, with pretty much all the tools and techniques you would expect for a job like this - and remember it was 90% off to start with - I have drawn a few initial conclusions:[list] [*]The glue joints that haven't already failed are probably OK. When I was trying to release the edge of the section above, if the glue had been brittle, it would have just snapped off once I could start levering the whole thing. It didn't! It took me another hour of hot knives and platters and, in the end, a chisel, to release it. [*]I think it would be almost impossible to get any of the remaining split panels off (the worst have less than 25% separation) without something irrevocably splitting or snapping. So for the others, I think it is a 'clean it up as best as possible in the splits, force glue in, clamp very tightly' [/list] Other things I checked were:[list] [*]the truss rod - I [i]think [/i]that works well enough. I certainly works, although I don't know yet whether there is enough adjustment [*]the neck angle. To fit a TOM bridge almost certainly will mean routing a slot for it to sit low enough for a decent action. Early days yet for that discussion because: [*]...the frets may have to come off anyway and the fretboard re-radiused and refretted. The frets are all over the place, although the neck itself seems relatively warp-free. I'm not certain there's enough metal to be able to sand them down enough for a straight starting point [/list] Anyway - that is all academic unless I can glue the body back to the required stability...that will be where I focus my ponderings and tests and trials.

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1461541089' post='3035587'] With the grain orientated like that on the back it'd definitely cause issues like seam separation if given half a chance (such as damp conditions). I'd probably replace the back if possible for that reason, as it could happen again! Your guesses on the wood species sound about right to me . Definitely looks like an Ash top with Mahogany and Maple. The back could also be Ash, but it appears to have those white marking low down on the bass side wing. They are an Oak trademark usually and won't be present in Ash. Good luck with it! Look forward to seeing it restored [/quote] Really interesting stuff ref the white markings - I wouldn't have known that's an oak signature

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1461331860' post='3033780'] Ok gents, bit rushed this month. Would've liked it to be a bit cleaner but here it is: [url="https://soundcloud.com/tona-fied/noodle-3"]https://soundcloud.c...a-fied/noodle-3[/url] Yes, i did warn you they might be some slap this month!! The first part of the noodle is kind of a hybrid picking style, and the second is slap. Hope it's not too offensive Edit to say it was recorded with a eden amp simulation (i think) on Line 6 podfarm. Little bass boost, little treble boost. Little compression. [/quote] Sounds great to me, Kert. Is it 'THE' bass? Andy

Yes, me too... I like this very much...

I'm not entirely sure, but I'm thinking the neck is an oak middle, then maple, then mahogany. At the headstock, there is an extra slice of maple and what looks like mahogany, but is a different shade to the main splice, so might be a different wood altogether. The body middle I reckon is maple, then mahogany either side, but I wonder if the top and bottom splices might be ash. It certainly looks like ash at the top. At the bottom, it's the same wood but there are birds eye-like blips and it has been laid on cross grain...and that looks less like ash to me. And just to finish the materials analysis, the fretboard is ebony, and the glue is absolutely genuine 1970's Golden Shred Marmalade...

[quote name='scojack' timestamp='1461166854' post='3032101'] You have your work cut out there m8 looks like water damage to me ..good luck ! Ian [/quote] Yes - I think so too. Probably sat in a damp shed for years...

No sooner has the varnish started drying on the Dreadnought Acoustic (other instruments) when another project has already got me engaged and excited I got a PM from Mick (TheGreek) last week. He'd recently got hold of a really old bass that - when he received it - he realised was in need of major surgery. But it wasn't straightforward. And it didn't look easy. And it might not be possible. So was I interested? Of course, I was interested It arrived yesterday, a day before we leave for a long weekend at our daughters in very cold Aberdeen. Useful - it will give me something to ponder about while I'm (hopefully) huddled for warmth over a glass of one of my son-in-law's whiskies. Because this is a [size=5]Granddaddy [size=4]of a challenge[/size][/size] The bass has a strong hint of Alembic about it, but for reasons I'll go through later, I think it is an early 'in the style of' build. And, there's no way of putting this subtly, it is falling to pieces. Here's the good: ...and here's just [i]some [/i]of the bad: (yes - that's the other side) This crack shows clear daylight all the way to the heel. It is only the fretboard that is holding some of the neck laminations together.... I was interested just how deep the cracks were on the wings laminations, so I got a spatula out of the kitchen. Now you see it: ...and now you don't: There's more...but this is more than enough to help me while away a few hours if the conversation dries up at my daughter's house. The big ponder is this:[list] [*]There is clearly a catastophic failure all over the place of the glue [*]BUT - it does seem to be firmly glued in places [*]The right thing would be to take it entirely down to the constituent pieces, clean it all up and rebuild from scratch [*]But I might not be able to without splitting the wood in unpredictable and random places [/list] That should get me from Derby to at least Glasgow...and maybe Dundee... without having to make strained conversation with MrsAndyjr1515... Andy

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1461100194' post='3031558'] I come to this thread late...speaking to Andy earlier about a bass I want refurb'ed he recommended that I look at this and I'm glad I did. Beautiful piece of work - Andy's certainly brought out the best of the woods used - love the back and sides on this. The singer in the band is sure to appreciate this guitar. Unfortunately reading this thread is making the return of my own project (which Andy will hopefully be starting on Tuesday) that much more frustrating. I'm feeling like a kid on Xmas Eve. I can empathise with Kert (Funkshui) who must have been going through hell while waiting for his bass to be completed but able to follow every step through the thread. Again, great work Andy... [/quote] Thanks, Mick! Mick's new project has me excited already. New thread will be kicking off shortly...and it's going to be one of those very interesting 'challenges'

Like the look of that top....a lot

[quote name='Chris Sharman' timestamp='1460938298' post='3030012'] Yeah, cheers for bringing the EUB last time Norris. I ended up buying one because of you. ...I think Mrs S would like a word with you Andy, I have the eastcoast (rebadged Stagg I think) EUB at my house if you ever want a try out on one. [/quote] Might take you up on that, Chris Didn't know / forgotten you had one!

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1460830071' post='3029218'] My favourite detail is the bird inlay in the neck heel. Subtle and very classy. Amazing work. Any comments on whether you may be focusing more on acoustic or electric instruments in the future? [/quote] Thanks, roman_sub .... and all you folks for your motivating encouragement I've got a number of items on my personal wish list but also have probably an electric bass refurb and an electric bass build coming in shortly. In terms of my own builds, electric cello is well overdue and I've just got a small drill-press that would be just right for a carved archtop.... pity I'm such a slow builder!

Finished! Actually, I might give the top one more flatten and varnish, but I have between now and July to decide (that's when the surprise present will be presented!). Electrics installed, new strings on, photos taken. Forgive the self-indulgence: When I first put strings on - [url="https://soundcloud.com/andy-rogers-6/sets/newly-built-dreadnought-acoustic-1st-test-with-strings"]very, very old strings and the guitar not set up and no electrics - I did a couple of sound clips here[/url], just recorded staight into a vocal mic, no effects or EQ. I don't know how it comes over, but in real life it has the unmistakeable volume and strumming smoothness of a dreadnought. Well chuffed.. Now the new strings are on, it is set up and the electrics are in, I'll try and do some more clips in the near future.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1460703469' post='3027918'] I just thought - would anybody like me to bring my Stagg EUB again? It's a bit of a pain to cart around so I'll happily leave it at home, but if there's enough interest I don't mind bringing it [/quote] I'd love to see it, Norris I don't remember it from last year, but I am just about to start on an own-design cello, loosely based on this yew/mahogany violin I did a couple of years ago - looks nice, plays like s**t - so would be very interested in terms of the weight, balance, etc... I know an upright bass is somewhat different to a cello, but the CofG issues, etc, are likely to be similar. If you're stuck for space, don't worry but if not I'd be really interested. Andy

Thanks, folks Two more jobs off the finish list. I raised the nut a touch and filed the slots down until they were below the zero fret. This gives proper and secure positioning of the two middle strings where the angle off to the tuners. I also added an ebony trussrod cover with a routed 'swift'. I also added a maple strip to this to reflect the white line added to the fretboard demarcation. That said, I'm not entirely sure whether ebony is right for the cover - if I get a bit of spare time, I might do a mahogany one and a lacewood one and see which looks best.

I have a surprising amount still to do, but I now know that it can take the tension of the strings without clapping hands and actually sounds like a dreadnought acoustic! I am a bit weird (generally, I suppose, but also specifically...) because I do the final neck shaping when the guitar is fully strung. I have all of the critical dimensions now at their final position (eg overall depth and width) but have left the profile a teeny bit clubby. Personally, I can't judge when the profile is just right until I'm playing, so that's what I do. I will get the scrapers out and fine tune the shape - probably creating a soft 'V' profile from what is presently halfway between a 'C' and a 'D'. Here it is at the first stringing up trial: Still to do, as a minimum: [list] [*]Finish profile the neck and re-slurry/oil [*]Polish the top [*]Reset the nut - I am using a zero fret but the nut behind it needs to be higher with deeper slots to keep the G and D strings in position better [*]Sort a truss rod cover [*]Take the sharp edges off the fretboard [*]Install the fretboard side dots [*]Install the electrics [*]Final set-up [/list] In the meantime, I'm well chuffed how it sounds. The comparison with my OM is just as it should be - this is for strumming and has volume, balance, sustain and a bassy smoothness. OK too for fingerpicking. The OM has the edge on fingerpicking but is much rougher with the strumming. I'm a happy chappy who is hoping this will be complete by the end of this weekend

The various usual burdens and tasks of life has got a bit in the way of progress, but there really isn't a whole lot more to do and things are being ticked off each time I get the odd hour or so to work on it. I've drilled and taper reamed the bridge pin holes: I've levelled the frets - call me uncannily perceptive, but I reckon a few of the upper frets and some more down the bottom end are a bit high.... The once they were level, a bit of crowning: I rough them out with the Hosco fret file, but then wrap micro web of decreasing grit round the file to do a progressive polish. The edges of the ebony fretboard still has to be rounded so I should lose the rough and chipped edges in this shot. That and a bit of slurried and buffed tru-oil on the fretboard: The gap in the rosette will be covered by the pretty invisible black fretboard shaped magnetic pickup of the Shadow Doubleplay system. This is fully blendable with a standard peizo strip under the bridge saddle. I'm hoping the tuners will arrive in the next couple of days so I can string it up before the weekend to do the final adjusting.

Yes - the bridge looks splendid