Andyjr1515

So the first step was to decide whether this was feasible in the first place. What was perfectly clear was that a bolt-on neck was simply not going to be practical. There was no way of knowing how strong the African wood was...there were already cracks appearing in it...and, in any case, there simply wasn’t enough thickness for the neck itself and anything (however strong) to support it. That lead to basically three options: [list] [*]To flatten the back of the African wood and treat it as a drop-top to a fairly conventional mahogany or similar back. Feasible, it would work, it would look nice, but would end up as a ‘conventional’ drop-top bass. [*]To go for a visible through-neck, splitting the body either side of a laminated neck. Feasible, it would work, but much of the visual appeal of the wood would be lost due to the prominent through neck running the length of the body. [*]To see if it was[b] at all feasible[/b] to slot the back of the body and set in a through neck, leaving the body visually complete from the front (similar to how I will be doing the Bubinga build on my other thread) and retaining the appeal of this particular piece of wood - which was its very slenderness and wavy unevenness. [/list] It was this latter option I decided to explore further to see if it was even possible, given the dimensions. I traced round the shape and measured the thickness along the length of the body. Many rough sketches later, I was able to send Tom this as a concept: I could see lots of challenges ahead but – well – it just might work. Basically, the proposal was build a 'loaded' neck – everything that mattered for strength or functionality bolted to the neck - and slot the African body over it purely as decoration. I can fairly confidently say that you are unlikely to find this approach in any ‘how to design build a guitar or bass’ book – and probably with very good reason! Through exchange of a number of emails and sketches, Tom and I agreed that it would be worth a shot...but we were both well aware that the chances were high of complete failure. So, rather than posting a car crash in slow motion, we decided it would probably be best to keep the project under wraps until we knew what we were dealing with... ...and, boy, there was a lot we were dealing with! Thanks for looking Andy

My goodness, that's a lot of screw holes!

[quote name='wwcringe' timestamp='1431786419' post='2774993'] All I want to add at this point is... What does a ham sandwich sound like?? [/quote] Depends....with mustard it has a little more sustain....

I’ve mentioned a few times in past threads a project that I've been putting time into that was ‘under wraps’. Well – it is time to reveal all! This has been a journey of exploration – design wise and building techniques wise – that I think and hope a number of you may find of interest. Even though the bass is now pretty much complete, I will post this as a standard build thread and not reveal the final bass until the end. It is a bass for Tom, our very own wwcringe. Tom will add to the thread in terms of the background, origins and motivation, but my own involvement came in during a meeting on a Derby station platform last year after Tom had contacted me through BassChat. Tom wanted to meet to talk through ‘one or two thoughts’ he had of a possible build. At Derby station, we had an interesting chat about a number of topics (including violas!) and then he rummaged around in his bag and pulled out this: It was a bass body-shape made for him by some of his contacts in Africa following a conversation during one of his previous visits there. It’s a very pretty piece of wood but there were some immediate and obvious concerns:[list] [*]it was unclear exactly: what the wood was; what its strength was; what the tone might be; how stable it was [*]it was only 1” thick at its thickest ...and wavy...and uneven. The bottom of the neck pocket was less than 7mm thick [*]the carve was skilled, but had been done without knowledge of some of the specific critical dimensions needed in a bass build; [*]oh and yes, the neck pocket was too wide and too shallow to fit a standard neck anyway [*]in fact there wasn't[u] actually[/u] enough depth to fit a neck pocket...or pickups...or electrics...or jack... [/list] So all in all, there wasn't much chance of this being built into a bass at all... and even less chance of it staying in one piece. And even if it could be and did, would it sound like a ham sandwich? So, with all that, Tom asked, was Andy interested in taking it on? Yes - [b]of course[/b] Andy was interested in taking it on!

[quote name='tedmanzie' timestamp='1431721782' post='2774447'] Does the wetndry not leave a black residue on the bare wood? [/quote] Not if you use the proper stuff...

Top tip with tru-oil is to sand wet, using c 1000 grit wet n dry and using the tru-oil rather than water, to create a slurry. Then wipe it off and buff it immediately. When it's dried, repeat a couple of times - you will end with a silky smooth, satin feel neck that is to die for..

Well whatever it sounds like, it looks just right! Are you going to post some clips of the trio when you've honed the tone of this last one?

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1431554101' post='2772647'] Looking good so far, you don't have many clamps on the body so you must have been pretty confident with the joint! [/quote] Yeah, never worry about clamping...take this headstock plate - almost nothing holding it on: Truth is that yes, the joint is pretty sound, but also, with two huge chunks of immovable wood, all you have to do is squeeze them together VERY tight - sash clamps are ideal. Where there is any flex possible, then you need plenty of clamps - and those being proper screw clamps too:

Sounds exciting to me!

[quote name='Joebethell' timestamp='1431551871' post='2772620'] The grain already looks great once you get your carve on its going to be stunning. [/quote] Thanks, Joe Kirk at www.exotichardwoodsukltd.co.uk picked me out the piece especially, trying to get as good a figuring as the Thumb tribute I did last year...I think he succeeded Andy

[quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1431533566' post='2772333'] It's a bit Iceni Zoot shaped, I like your adaptations. As always Andy, I love watching your work! [/quote] Hi, Bryan I see what you mean...at least it means I'm moving away from Thumb territory I'd not come across Iceni Zoot's before - there are some cool basses! Pity they seem to have stolen my design...I'll have to get the lawyers onto how you break the pre-existing issue Happily, mine will look NOTHING like that by the time I've tweaked my original design concept to death... ...in fact, if I get carried away it probably won't even look like a bass Andy

I'm waiting for some bits for the couple of other projects so took advantage of a dry morning to do a bit more on this. In the process, I have found the design limits of my cheap bandsaw (more of which later) First thing was to place the two halves of bubinga together, cut out the body shape out of some A2 paper and try the various permutations and combinations to find the best position for the best figuring, bearing in mind that the top will be curved along the axis which will expose some of the figuring underneath. I firmed up on this as the optimum position: I traced round the template placed in this position on the bubinga in felt-tip: I chose to rough-cut the two halves separately and then glue rather than the other way round mainly because of the size restriction on my bandsaw (the cheapo Clarke one from Machine Mart). This is where my bandsaw almost met it's limitation - especially as I suspect the blade wasn't overly sharp. Bubinga is VERY tough stuff and, due to the curve I will end up with on the body, you have to start off with it at maximum 'highest point to lowest point' thickness of 47mm. It weighs much the same as a breeze block in this condition . Well, my poor old cheapo band saw stalled, threw a blade, broke a blade, made pathetic dying noises, but eventually: In fact, I took this photo just before replacing the broken blade - you can see at the neck join area...so close and yet so far away.... Next was a final check of the mating surfaces and then Titebond and a pair of sash clamps, which is where it will stay overnight... I've also had some thoughts about a possible further design change - but I'll have a think about it before embarrassing myself in front of the forum ('he's going to do WHAT???!??!!') As always, thanks for looking Andy

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1431457498' post='2771609'] Slightly unusual technique for .... [/quote] You want to see some of my other 'techniques'

It's all day digging the daughter's garden tomorrow, so I've done as much as I can today. That has included tackling Paul S's Shergold neck slimming (thread in Repairs and Technical) and the next vital step in the bubinga fretless - squaring up the mating sides of the 2-part body blanks. I don't have a workshop (or even proper workbench!) but I live in hope and, in anticipation, have been learning as many woodworking skills as I can. That has included how to sharpen a plane blade, and set up a plane to cut properly. For the mating surfaces, I would normally use a router - guaranteed right angles to the top face but I know that carpenters use a plane and shooting board. So...why not try... Here's my makeshift shooting board: It's basically a piece of marine ply on top of the patio table Not the best way round for using the plane, but it was the only way I could clamp it. Bubinga is b****y hard! Nevertheless, and chasing the patio table round the garden, it seemed to be starting to square up and straighten up I've NEVER been able to do that before....old dogs, old tricks With a final short sanding using the aluminium beam with some 120 grit stuck on, this was the result: That's free standing....no daylight anywhere....slightly gobsmacked....never done THAT before, usually takes me all weekend... Next job, joining the two halves and band-sawing the shape out. Thanks for looking Andy

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431353625' post='2770349'] Going by the thread title I was expecting a bit of a bodge, but this is top, professional work! Nicely done. [/quote] Or as one of my colleagues once said '... you know, when you [i]really[/i] put your mind to it, you are capable of almost adding a touch of elegance to your bodge jobs...' Thanks - very much appreciated....especially when I saw just how FANTASTIC some of our basschat members 'little projects' are at last weekend's Midlands Bash. Now if you are talking top, professional work, that was where it was at (there were loads of examples but Jabba the Gut's were simply sublime...) Andy

For the frets, first job was to re-establish the chamfer: This is a great but inexpensive tool - a diamond file (removable and reversable) in a hard-rubber block. Then taking off the sharp corners and edges: The frets themselves were impressively accurate for an unfinished neck. I didn't have to do any general leveling - just half a dozen high spots in various places on various frets, and a couple of re-seatings of the fret ends. Next was to take off the finish off the fretboard - I will be staining this 'essence of original' (ie as close as I can reasonably get) and, unlike the neck itself, the fretboard had been coated or waxed and that would have stopped the new stain soaking in. I use a single edged razor for cleaning / light refurb or stanley knife blade for heavier scraping (in use, two handed when not holding camera as well!). By the way - DON'T use a blade for a fretless! Only radius block and appropriate sandpaper for that job This then gave me a correctly slimmed neck, of the right profile, tarted up frets ready for staining: I did a couple of experiments with different stains I've used in the past - the stains react quite differently with different pieces of wood even of the same species so it can't be assumed that if it worked once before it will give the same result again . Found one that - when finished - I think will be the closest I can reasonably get to the original (not sure it will quite have the WONDERFUL honey glow of the original, but it will be closer than, say, purple!!!) This is only indicative, because the clear finish makes a significant difference to the final look but here it is: I have some Luminlays airmailing their way from Japan for the side dots and need to discuss with Paul his preferred finish but I'm really pleased so far how this is coming out Thanks for looking, folks Andy

The replica neck sat at 42.5mm at the nut, with the target width a 'Jazz' 38mm. That's the same as my Squier. Interestingly, at the heel, the Shergold is quite a bit [i]slimmer[/i]than the Squier...both the replica and original sit at 55.8mm vs the Squier at 59.9. Bearing in mind that Paul's preference was to go for functional rather than replica, we had already decided to scrub the binding. As it turns out, that was easy!: Two minutes and some careful thumbnail work later: That took 2mm off the fretboard width for starters In terms of the nut fret itself, it left therefore a very small amount to sand off: I started with 80 grit sandpaper on a sanding block to get the fretboard and frets the correct width up to the heel: Then - because maple is rock hard and life is too short - a cabinet scraper to re-establish the profile curve: Finally, sanded the profile smooth the old-fashioned way: This, by the way, is a fantastic way of getting a 'C' profile and an absolute bum way for getting to my personal preference (esp for 6 string electrics) of a 'V' profile Luckily, this is a 'C' Final lengthways sand to get rid of the sandpaper scratch marks got me to this: Next thread, onto the frets and fretboard... Andy

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1431287195' post='2769689'] How do you adjust the truss rod on the replica? On the original (or the Hayman 40/40, anyway) you went through a slot on the rear of the body with a special tool which was a cranked piece of metal and turned the wheel with that. The wheel isn't visible on the replica. [/quote] Hi, Tauzero & PlungerModerno Yes - as you say, the original has a 'capstan' accessible in a slot under the heel. And as PlungerModerno rightly says, the replacement has a conventional allen-key access at the headstock....I need to find out what Paul's preference is with that in terms of leaving it as is or covering it with a bent cover. In the meantime, great progress this morning on this...thread coming shortly Andy

Had a great time! Nice to meet you all, folks Thanks also for the driving, Mr Sharman, and the cakes, Mrs Sharman Andy

Ahah! That Moriarty is a cunning blighter!

Hi I don't know if any of you saw [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/259471-neck-reduction-proscons/"]Paul S's recent post[/url] enquiring about slimming down the neck of an old favourite of his, a lovely Shergold Marathon. Problem was - and I think we've all had this at one time or another - it wasn't being played because it wasn't a comfortable fit for him. In this case, it is because the neck at the nut is the more 'traditional' 44mm...very wide compared with most of the more modern 4 strings at around at c 38mm. (There is a small irony here, because the 'under-wraps' project I'm working on at the moment has a 44mm neck). I thought it was worth posting the thread because it is a common issue many of us face...mod or sell? Also, it's a way of keeping Paul up to date with the progress. The challenge here was - and you can see the thread:[list] [*]To slim down the existing neck is a one-way trip [*]To do it 'properly' is expensive. Frets out, binding off, slim down, re-fret, re-bind. Impact on the resale value but less than the next option... [*]To do it the cheap way - lose most of the binding and just sand it, binding, frets 'n all. Takes the value off both the neck and the bass. [/list] Paul's solution is none of the above and is rather elegant:[list] [*]Buy a modern replica replacement neck [*]Give THAT one to the crazy bloke in Derbyshire to attack with his sanding block. Go for functionality rather than authenticity - ie, lose the binding [*]Play what is now a comfortable bass but which still retains the vibe until... [*]...sometime in the future, simply refit the original neck to keep, or sell, an original beauty. [/list] So, on the back of that, Paul HAS sent it (and the original as a template for the pocket measurements, etc) to the crazy bloke in Derbyshire who is now rummaging around for the biggest sanding block and coarsest sandpaper any self-respecting bass has ever been subjected to Here are the two necks: Clearly the new neck is unfinished and a basic copy, but there are a number of things in its favour:[list] [*]It does have the same 'vibe' I particularly like the use of thin, period correct, frets [*]The name badge, while just a printed sticker (the original is a thick perspex piece that is [i]nailed [/i]onto the headstock) is actually a perfect replica of the original's logo [*]Fret dots are spot on [*]It is bound and side dotted, albeit this will be largely sanded off [*]It has a modern accessible truss-rod (the original is in the heel) [/list] Head shape isn't exactly the same and is a little narrower but definitely good enough. The heel also appears to be the correct size. A detail - not sure of the functional value - is the unusual shape of the heel: Here's the original: ...and here's the replacement: Won't affect the performance but intrigued to the purpose of the extra machining. Then again, on the original, what on earth is this great big hole for?: It'll be a few days before I attack the poor little thing but I'll post the carnage when I do Andy

If it was my bass and I didn't want to bother with recutting slots, I'd put a thin shim under the offending side. To remove the nut first score with a sharp knife along the sides to cut through any varnish, find something to act as a drift and give the nut a sharp hammer tap from the side. It should come right out. Pop a sliver of hard plastic (Dunlop 0.6mm picks are good for this), cut to the width of the nut under half of its length. Drop a tiny spot of super glue onto one side of the nut at the other side to the sliver. Pop the sliver in, press the nut back in. Done.

Lovely job

It's become a bit of a cliche, but this is what 'truly awesome' really means Don't think I've ever seen anything like it...

You've finished that very nicely There's some great figuring coming out... Andy