Andyjr1515

Very interesting indeed! Thanks - I'll investigate, especially next time I'm after something 'strident'! And yes, paper/wood is the same material and so the characteristics of inks - and watercolours, which I'd never thought about - on the two media will be similar. Certainly, the two or three where I've used red calligraphy ink should last at least as long as the Lindisfarne Gospels or I will, indeed, demand my money back! In the first 8 of the 1300 years, they do indeed seem to be just as bright as the day they were done. I'm optimistic of the result

Nah...close but no cigar. I put a couple of coats of oil on and then, this morning, slurry and buffed it up. The good news is that it feels great! The bad news is that the stain is acting like a coating rather than a stain and that isn't what I'm after at all. For some reason I thought that the Chestnut stains didn't do that (I have used them before a number of times but not on an amber neck) but they do and it compromises the effect I'm after. So off it has to come! And so - although it will probably be a few days before I get back to it - I'm going to sand back to bare wood and go back to my preferred stain - pen ink. Yes - good old fountain pen ink! Being water based, ink really does soak into the wood surface rather than sit on top of it. I've used pen ink many times and there are great advantages: there are a myriad of colours; you also don't have to pre-mix the colours to get a particular shade - you can literally wipe on one colour and then wipe on the second colour; it is very cheap and so you can afford to try multiple combinations without breaking the bank. The only disadvantage is that there are some colours that fade - but there are fountain pen forums (yes - really) and some where folks do fade tests on a makers' full ranges (we are talking dozens and dozens), so it is pretty straightforward to avoid the ones that fade. @TheGreek 's 'Silk' bass, from a good many years ago, was done with ink...still orange, Mick? I have yellow and amber inks here so will be able to redo @Happy Jack 's neck as soon as I get back to it and then move onto the fretless

The amber in the original finish will have been sprayed over the clear primer - and any 'proper' builder would strip the whole thing down and replicate that But then you have issues of losing all of the decals, etc etc. And I don't have any spray expertise or equipment anyway But also, we are trying to get a much more slinky feel to the neck - which is why I'm going this route. Stains, though, have their own foibles, not least the degree to which the adsorption differs between end grain, straight grain, knots and ripples in the timber. Which is a long way of going about saying, 'there's something a bit odd with the stain at the volute' I may be able to sort this or it may turn out to be a case of 'it is what it is'. The nice thing about this method is that you can work further on particular areas even when the rest of it is finished. Here it is, with the first sealing coat of oil on it (I will add 2-3 of these and then slurry and buff the hardened oil as part of the process). Trust me - it works The finished neck will be satin rather than this coat which has a touch more gloss in it. Colour match-wise, it is pretty close when you see it against the fretboard: As the saying goes, maybe 'close enough for jazz'? And then, finally, the timber has arrived for the fretless neck from David Dyke: In absolute terms, you don't get a lot for your £100+...but in relative terms, this is beautiful timber hand picked by David's team. And for necks, you can't take chances. I now just have to make sure I don't massacre it...

So, with the extra Chestnut Spirit Stain (Yew) arrived, here is the cunning plan: - Jack ideally would like a 'silky smooth but still feels like wood' finish at the back of the neck. Normally, builders would favour a 'slurry and buff' application of Tru-oil, which achieves just that. - The conventional wisdom is that you can't stain a slurry and buff bit of wood, because the slurrying (using wet and dry abrasive where the wet is Tru-oil) will just sand the stain right off. But when did conventional wisdom...nay, wisdom...ever come into my builds and mods?? - The back and sides will be finished, but stopping short of the headstock and the concealed info on the back of the heel: - The stains I will be mixing are both Chestnut Spirit Stains (Yellow and Yew) and will be a trial-and-sandoffagainifitdoesntwork process to try to get a colour that is at least in the right ballpark (it won't be an exact match) - First I will need to make sure that every last bit of the fiendish and invisible primer spray that a lot of commercial builders use is off, because I need bare fresh wood for the stain to soak into - The fretboard and headstock front will be unaffected: It should be stained and the first couple of applications of the Andyjr1515wingingit method done before the end of today. The other bit of news is that, in about an hour's time, the timber for @Happy Jack 's fretless neck should be arriving (although probably a week before I will be able to start work on that one)

You can't imagine how long it took me on photoshop to make it look like it was a close fit!

Excellent result!

We're still fine tuning the shape of the headstock, but it is likely to be in the Firebird/Thunderbird ilk. The original Trini Deluxes seem to have had a number of variations but most appear to have had something like the Firebird. This will be fitted with the Steinberger banjo replacements so, within reason, the wood can be any shape. Also the neck carve is basically done. Jack took me some profiles from his favourite playing guitar and I've used those to try to gain a familiarity of feel with this build. I use a combination of spokeshave, micro-plane blade and cabinet scraper to creep up towards the shape: The chalk line along the spine is so that I never dig into the spine which would affect the neck depth. The neck carve is my favourite part but is often too quickly done and gone! And then the preparatory work on the finishing of the body. I use a rough version of the Tru-oil slurry and buff method early on to act as a: - grain fill / gap fill / sanding sealer - 'reveal coat' to show up any glue residue, sanding marks etc. To do this, I sand with some brutal 120 grit emery (with the grain always) used wet where the wet is lashings of Tru-oil. You end up with a slurry of wood dust that is then wiped off and allowed to dry. Even at this early stage, it's showing some promise

The Luminlays come in stick form and - as long as you have an accurate brad-point drill - are very easy to fit. You drill the hole a few mm, check fit the stick, pop a drop of superglue at the end, wait a couple of minutes and then razor-saw it flush. At the neck pocket, the body would overlap the larger dots and so I will use the smaller size. The end fret will have to stay as a black dot as the overhang isn't deep enough to take a larger drill hole - but generally the end of the fretboard is easy to find even in the dark : And with a final sand, done: So just waiting for the stain to arrive and I can finish this one off

So with the fretboard done, time to prepare for attaching it to the neck. But first, while I still have a flat surface to be able to put into my home-made router thicknesser jig, I need to get the neck down to final planned thickness. With a 2.5mm packer at the nut end to give me the taper of thickness, off we go. The clamps double up as end stops for the router carriage: Then the truss-rod fitted and protected from glue squeeze-out with a thin strip of masking tape: And, yes @TheGreek - you can NEVER have too many clamps And - to my admitted surprise - one straight and gap free fretboard fitted Just got the neck carve and headstock to do and then the main build part is complete Of course, then comes the finishing...and I've got no idea yet quite what I will do for that...

Well, Axminster excelled themselves - this arrived this morning And so by this evening, all the plug holes are filled. They will show up more once the stain and finish has been put on - but they merge in better than the black epoxy Next job is to find the teeny envelope with the Luminlay rods in...

Well, as I've been reminded of this thread, here are my two - although both are still presently with Matt Marriott (he 'borrowed' them to do some videos...a worryingly long time ago ). My bubinga-bodied through-neck fretless, based on the same proportions as the stupendous Warwick Thumb: And the Camphor topped neck through single cut:

Nice to see that headless again!

A 'AAA' quartersawn maple blank and ebony fingerboard for the fretless neck should be with me early next week, as should an 8mm taper plug cutter bit to cut the rest of the maple plugs (with proof of concept done, life's too short to slim the rest of them by hand!). I've just got to get hold of some amber stain and, once the plugs are in and the neck finish-sanded, I can start the refinishing of the neck. We're going for a silky-smooth-and-organic tru-oil slurry and buff. The headstock top and back and fretboard top are all untouched and will not need any refinish.

Actually, it's this next bit that's a bit scary - drilling out the old big and small dots This is so close to the top of the fretboard, the drill holes have to be spot on - my little Proxxon drill-press and the neck held absolutely vertical using that radius block again helps enormously. I decided that the dot at the 15th was as good a one as any to try it out: I don't have a plug cutter quite the right size, so I cut one from some plain rock maple offcut (should match) slightly larger than the drill hole and slimmed it down in a hand-drill chuck with some sandpaper on a block: Trying to match the grain direction as well as possible, glued it in, cut flush and sanded it. I'm quite pleased with the result - once there is a luminlay in the middle, I reckon that will look like it was meant to be there Now just got the others to plug - but that's enough scary stuff for one day, so it will have to wait until tomorrow

So the humble cabinet scraper. Basically, if you get dust, then either the burr has been prepared badly/is blunt or it is being used wrongly. The reality is that it is a type of plane - it is designed to be able to cut wafer thin and long shavings: And I find it ideal for modifying or carving necks because it is efficient but very controllable. Often I will do this with the neck still on the bass, sitting and holding it a bit like a back-to-front cello. But for the first de-varnish and rough cut, then I've cantilevered it from my work bench with the fretboard sitting in a fret radius block: For the first rough-cut, I marked the spine with a sharpie and then simply worked on removing the edge that the slimming left and blending it into the existing profile. This is done running the scraper up the whole length of the neck (which is why it's cantilevered) so that the profile is continuous around the neck and along it. The carve is usually best done by feel - the edge starts off feeling like a distinct line to your fingers, then feels like a slight lump as it smooths out and then, if it feels like one continuous curve to your finger or thumb from the fretboard to the spine, you know you have a blended shape. Here it is after the rough carve: You can see here how little of the black epoxy side dot depth has been removed. Sorting that will probably take longer than the whole reshaping and refinishing process!! So far so good....

The slim down should absolutely make it feel different - and yes, that's exactly what @Happy Jack is after. But the depth will be the same and the profile very, very similar so it should feel 'in the same vibe' but simply a lot easier to play for his preferred style And as Jack himself says, he already has a Plan B for the single-string version

I've done it to the two points where the neck pocket sides join (around 16th fret on the bass side and the 19th on the treble side). You could taper it at the fretboard level to the very end of the fretboard but we are talking a miniscule difference in width at that point.

First job after removing the neck was to take the tuners off. This is a nice touch - recessed washer seatings: On the other hand, I will be leaving the string trees in place. It is important that the headstock isn't damaged at all, regardless of the mayhem that will be going on around it, and these act as protective spacers And so - I mentioned the Shinto rasp file. Some builders say that, for wood, the best files around are the top notch hand cut professional rasp files. But for all-round wonderment, in my view, there is nothing that comes remotely close to the Shinto. They are unusual in that they are made from blades similar to hacksaw blades. One side is coarse and the other is fine: Why are they so wonderful? Well - apart from the fact that they can cut through even the hardest woods at a remarkable rate - but leaving an impressively smooth surface - they also can file METAL!! So for narrowing a fretted neck, they are absolutely perfect: Remembering to always file the frets into the neck, it took no more than 10 minutes to slim down the neck accurately up to the sharpie line. And here is the slimmed down neck, in profile only at the moment so lots more fun stuff to do: Next step, is reshaping the neck to blend it all in from this edge round to the spine, which won't be impacted. And here I will be using my next favourite type of hand tool - the humble, cheap as chips, cabinet card scraper

Well...you know the wobbly dining table problem...where you shorten the longer leg and it still wobbles and you carry on until you end up with a coffee table? Just conditioning him

That's better! In my defence, I have to say here that this is not entirely an OCD thing It's just that in guitar and bass geometry, everything affects everything - and so the more things that you can get correct at the start will mean that more things will be correct in the subsequent actions. Which is just as well, because, now I have also placed the nut in line... ...then, in about 15 minutes time, it's going to be taken down to the cellar and attacked with a Shinto rasp file!

The Fender Standard hex nut arrived - and I also bottomed that issue of the nut 'cracking' loose...because the Fender was even worse! And the problem? Actually both nuts had a taper in their internal threads! I got an imperial bolt of the right size and, sure enough, it would screw in nicely for 4-5 turns and then became very, very stiff. The solution was a quick clearance of the thread with an imperial tap (goodness knows how I came to possess one...but I do!) and also add even more spacers so that the nut doesn't have to screw in so far before it starts bending the neck. So we now have a hex nut adjuster - which will make it much easier for @Happy Jack to adjust it in the future: I reassembled it and was able to adjust from a large relief to dead flat, even with the middle string still in place: And talking of that middle string - when we were in the pub talking about the options to narrow the neck, Jack had noted that the strings didn't really line up with the top fretboard dots in the first place - and I noticed that when I did the mockup above. But I also noticed a stress lacquer crack at the corner of the treble side of the neck pocket when I was taking the neck off. Ahah! There's a clue. This is the effect (this one is purely aesthetic but the little lacquer stress crack less so): And this is most of the cause - the pickguard is encroaching into the neck pocket by enough to push the neck both across and at a slight angle. It's encroaching into the pocket by nearly a mm: I'll plane and sand the side overlap flush (it's perfectly flush at the back) before I set the final position of the nut and start filing the neck narrower - which I will start on tomorrow

And so, on a 'measure 14 times and cut once' basis, the fretboard taper was cut this morning: And, using a G&W steel fret cutting template as my flat surface, the maple veneer glued onto the bottom - you can never have too many clamps (or radius block cauls)! And that done, I've been able to start the fretting. I'm using Evo Gold fret wire (I've used those on all my personal guitars and basses and the majority of builds for other folk). After de-tanging the ends of each fret: I 'wipe' a triangular needle file along the slot to take the brittle edge off; then apply a teeny thread of titebond; position it in the slot; whack it one side, then the other, then the middle to engage the tangs; wipe off the squeeze-out; then clamp a 12" radius block (the radius of the fretboard) for good measure while I then prepare the next one to be done. 14 done, 8 to go

I wish you patience and perseverance instead. With those two, you won't need the luck bit

Thanks, folks All going well, this week should see the fretboard tapered, fretted, glued, neck tapered and headstock shaped. For the fretboard, Jack is opting for no binding and a veneer pinstripe - this kind of thing: That all done, then that will leave just the neck profile to do (Jack will be sending me profile tracings and sizes taken from his favourite neck. All necks have their own feel but, hopefully, I can get him a pleasing familiarity with it ) and the build itself will be essentially finished. And after that, the finishing can start...and that's where the magic really starts with nice woods like these

OK The conventional wisdom is that you can't slurry and buff tru-oil on a stained body because the slurry bit will simply sand off the stain - either totally or in patches. And, generally, this is a reasonable assumption. But it can be done. There's a bit of finesse involved, there's a bit of trial and error, and there're some 'do's and don'ts' - but it can be done. The finish is not quite the same (so do review it against the Osmo Polyx, because that is much more straightforward) but pretty close. This was my first attempt. Stained with red calligraphy ink on mahogany: And to pre-empt the nay-sayers who will say that the stain will come off on your hands - the neck was also done...and it didn't despite a LOT of playing: And this was done for a pro player - neck and all (it used to be a white-wash finish) - who also confirms that the stain has never lifted after lots of playing. This one used Chestnut Spirit Stains but the same method outlined below: So - if it was trying to do what you describe I would: - Get it down to final with-the-grain sanding (probably around 300 grit) - Do the staining - Then use the modified approach: * We are going to still slurry and buff...but we are going to slurry and buff the tru-oil and NOT the stained wood * So first I would do a number of coats of tru oil, wiped or brushed on. The first coats will be sucked into the stained wood. Let each fully dry. * After 2-4 coats you will find that the oil is no longer being sucked in - each coat is starting to build a shine. * From this point, do at least 2 more full coats. * Then, when fully dry, take some 1000 grit wet and dry and do a very, very light circular sanding using the tru-oil as the wet. Do a couple of inches at a time and wipe it off as you go. There may be a small amount of stain on the cloth - that's not a problem, but if you see the stain lightening of the wood at all, you are sanding through the hardened tru-oil layers into the stained wood. * Likewise be very careful with any sharp edges. Better to slurry sand up to an edge and not the edge itself. Wipe it, let it fully dry. *If you have got breakthrough in the stain, sand the dried with the 1000 grit in that area until you break through the stain to the wood. Restain that patch, let it dry, add a few more coats to the patch and then carry on with the above process. * After the first slurry and wipe has fully dried, now do a slurry and buff. Slurry very, very lightly - you don't want to break through now - but buff up** fairly vigorously. Let it fully dry. * Once fully dry, finally buff up** again. Should be done **Where I say 'buff up' , we are talking hand buffing with a cloth. Don't under any circumstances use any form of powered buffer - it will go straight through the finish and take all the stain off!! So - there is a learned technique here - and the Osmo over the stained wood will be very close to the same final result. The choice is yours