Rick's Fine '52

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1328644140' post='1530641'] I really doubt this bass will be gigged whereas a 1965 Ferrari 250GT 'made to be driven' I think would be, though not as we agree for trips to Lidl. [/quote] I have a similar condition '52 Precision, as you can see in my avatar, and i'll bet any money you like it gets played more than someone drives their £5m Ferrari!!!

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1328644140' post='1530641'] BTW if you say 'horses for courses' quite quickly it can be followed up with 'Sure they do. That's how foals are conceived' [/quote] Sure they do..what?

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1328643152' post='1530621'] you wait, give it a few years and new warwicks will be around that! I think when it comes to something like this it's a collectable rather than an instrument. [/quote] Not with you?, are you saying a near mint 1962 Fender Jazz is not an instrument? Surely, if anything, it's a 'collectible instrument'?

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1328642546' post='1530609'] I think you may have missed my point Rick. You've stated that you've recently spent this kind of money on a bass... from The States (you don't mention flying out to get it)... based on a description, photos and questions asked! How is that different from buying this bass, off this guy and through ebay? With what I've read of this seller, and with my own research and intuition, I'd still not buy this regardless of whether I had asked your questions because I'd have the fear that I hadn't phrased the questions in the correct way! [/quote] I use a 3rd person, who, for a living, locates basses for you (From a provided wants list), then, at a fee, flies out, inspects them, dismantles them, makes sure their what they should be, then, following agreement of everything, and ultimately my acceptance of his report, agree the price, he then buys it, flies back, and hands it over. I've done it 3 times. Not cheap, although cheaper than you'd think, with the peace of mind of knowing exactly what you're buying. Plus, theres no customs, tax, import fee's etc, which, if you took that off his fee, it all works out very nice. Obviously not cost effective on a $1000 buy, but on a £8K+ purchase, definitely worth it.

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1328642335' post='1530606'] One thing slightly saddens me. This bass will almost certainly never see a gig, at least not at the weekly jam down at the Ferret and Scrotum. Not sure Leo would have approved. He did after all design and build things to be played rather than spend their life in some temperature controlled vault only to be gawped at few times a year. But I suppose once an owner pays the price he can do what he wants with it. Still makes me a bit sad though. [/quote] Don't lose too much sleep, items this good should absolutely be preserved, I'm sure the lucky buyer will have several pre-CBS players basses to take to the Dog n' Duck. I've said this before, if you had a mint 1965 Ferrari 250GT Daytona, you wouldnt use it for the school run, or leave it parked in the Lidl car park, but it was made to be driven!! Horses for courses.

[quote name='apa' timestamp='1328641964' post='1530596'] So its a bit like the old addage - "If you have to ask the price, you cant afford it" only in this case its "If you need me to describe it, you shouldnt be buying it" A [/quote] There's certainly some truth in that I think, but you'd still need to see it before splashing that dough!

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1328640523' post='1530571'] The item is available for sale on eBay isn't it? The fact that is in The States means that there may well be folks on the other side of the World who might be stupid enough to buy this on the strength and faith of the pics and a description! Patently I won't be as I've formed my own opinion of the guy (that and £12k on a bass is chuffin stupid), though I do think the recent case of an ebay counterfeit violin being smashed up might make for an interesting test case on one of his basses! [/quote] Well, I'm on the other side of the planet, and regularly buy guitars from the states, and I wouldnt buy on the strength of an ad alone, and other serious collectors i know would be the same. I recently spent this amount on a purchase in the USA on something that was originally advertised with one pic and a description, needless to say it took a significant amount of following work before i would secure the deal. Yes it is on eBay, as its the most global way of generating interest in an item you have for sale, most people don't have crystal balls to foresee who may have what available, if you're selling something, you need to advertise it, simple £12k on a bass may be stupid to you, the same as £65m for a painting might be considered stupid to many others. Personally I can see the case for both being value for money, particularly if its your passion, especially as both will probably be worth over double in 10 years time, based on the past 10 years anyway. Its all relative to your desires, interests, and of course, finances. I wouldnt knock someone for buying a Maserati, despite the fact that a Skoda serves exactly the same function, fair play to them I'd say!

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1328639261' post='1530541'] I've looked at a lot of this guy's sales over many years and I have to say that a few years ago he used to put a description... and just like estate agents speak, the devil was in the detail with regards to what was or was not being offered for sale with regards to originality! You had to have read enough of his sales to know what I mean but needless to say that should he wish he could very easily have deflected any possible claim that something wasn't as described. However, I now note that he doesn't even bother giving any detail, so it is down to any potential buyer to ask very precise and accurately worded questions to ascertain what is actually being sold! I accept that 'caveat emptor' applies but to give so few details publicly on his listing is ridiculous. [/quote] With respect anybody actually in the market for an item like this, will not be buying it based on an eBay description. I know I wouldn't or havent in the past. Ebay is used to generate interest, and advertise the item. Actual buyers will be dealing direct with him, and getting all the information they need in order to make an informed decision. You would be very stupid to pay £12k for any item from an ebay ad, without further investigation, whether its a car, guitar or whatever. Lets get real on this.

[sub]The most godawful tunic I've been asked to play in, is one like this;[/sub] [sub][attachment=99435:tunic.jpg][/sub] [sub]Oh, wait, hang on, oh, I get it.... [/sub]

[quote name='apa' timestamp='1328612563' post='1529850'] Ok This may be a stupid question since no one has doubted the authenticity of the thing BUT................. Shouldnt that tortoise scratchplate be shrunk and distorted and pulling the screws out all over the place since the thing is 50 years old? I thought thats what happened to the old style plates? Same goes for the Precision. Also the cases these things are in look alot more worn than the basses? And finally I dont read anywhere that says this is all original, hasnt been resprayed etc etc. I have no idea what so ever about original stuff like this so just askin A [/quote] Nitro guards shrink due to exposure, and reaction to external influences, its not a time related thing. These instruments have clearly been kept in the case for the vast majority of their life. The guitars could well have been moved around alot over the years, which may explain the case condition. In my experience, most near mint 50's/60's instruments, including Strats/tele's etc, almost never have cases that are in as good condition as the instruments they contain. Mint condition cases are far rarer than the instruments, and highly prized when they do turn up.

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1328569740' post='1529448'] How many of us are there on basschat? Why don't we all pitch in and buy it between us - then we'll have a raffle with the bass as prize. [/quote] Or we can each have it for a month, and just keep rotating it between us!!

[quote name='SebCarr' timestamp='1328518259' post='1528216'] Those two are both exceptional. Wow! They look almost TOO new. [/quote] It is very unusual to find nitro finishes this clean, but they are out there, i guess they must have been stored in cases, out of light and elements for almost their whole life. Its unusual to see zero checking though, but they do exist. I've been fortunate enough to have played (And had my photo taken with), John Entwistle's Mint 1960 Blonde stack knob Jazz, and it was as clean as a brand new American Vintage, stunning. Similarly, the neck on my '52 is unplayed, not a mark on it, or the frets. They do exist, and when they turn up, they command top dollar. I have no doubt at all that this will be sold in a week.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1328568521' post='1529430'] Not that I have the money or the impulse to buy what appears to be a stunning vintage Fender, but are we saying this particular example is not as it came off the line? i.e. had some parts replaced with others commensurate to it's age? If I was looking at spending that much, I would certainly want to fly over there and give it the once over before I parted with the cash....and buy it a seat next to me on the plane home [/quote] I think some of the comments relate to other items, although my experience of this seller have always been pleasant ones. I can see nothing wrong with this particular bass. But, like you, if i was buying, i'd be needing to check it out in person, or via a 3rd party, before parting with any cash, as I always do.

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1328567880' post='1529412'] Awwww.. I was hoping for some more fun with him!! [/quote] I suspect the only one having fun from this transaction is him!!

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1328558085' post='1529129'] As ever, it's a case of caveat emptor. For me that means should a vendor be less than forthcoming with all the relevant details, describe items as all original when it's sporting non period correct parts or has credible allegations against him of having sold a ringer, then for me that would preclude any purchase. Which is why I wouldn't buy from this chap, no matter how authentic the instrument looked or what questions were asked. [/quote] I agree, I just dont think that applies to this guy, from my experience anyway.

[b] eBay My World: horpeds( [url="http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&myWorld=true&userid=horpeds"]0[/url] )[size=1] [/size][/b] [center][/center] [color=#FF0000][b]No longer a registered user[/b][/color] [color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1]Member since: 02-Feb-12 Location: United Kingdom[/size][/font][/color][url="http://search.ebay.co.uk/?sass=horpeds&ht=-1"]Items for sale[/url] [url="http://my.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?AcceptSavedSeller&mode=0&preference=0&sellerid=horpeds"]Add to favourite sellers[/url] [color=#154A91][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This seller currently has no items for sale.[/font][/color] [indent=1][color=#154A91][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][url="http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyWorldPortalRouter"]View your eBay My World page[/url][/size][/font][url="http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=horpeds&myWorld=true"]Feedback earned for transactions on eBay[/url][/font][/color][/indent] [color=#154A91][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No longer registered either, he's probably done 5 deals outside ebay, and is now deleting all trace and contact.......not the first time i bet!! [/font][/color][/size][/font][/color]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1328533690' post='1528537'] This is a brilliant post: [color=#800000][i]I own a '72 Tele, '66 Vibrolux, '74 Vibrolux, and '79 Princeton Reverb, so I've got some stake in this "game". But Mikey don't wanna play this game. After watching the threads of the last several days, watching that guitar climb to 45K, and learning about all the detective work that goes into making sure you get something close to original, I can say unequivocally that I wish this whole vintage thing would just dry up and go away. I'm serious. I wish there was this big collective "what the hell are we doing???" from the folks who are willing to pay 45K for $450 worth of parts. There is no bitterness on my part at all. I realize the value of my stuff will tank. So be it. At least I could take my mint '66 VR out of the house again! And you know what we could do? We could do EXACTLY what Leo intended us to do with his guitars. This man dedicated his life making a user serviceable guitar. A guitar with interchangeable parts. And I'm quite certain it was't so we could argue if the ash try cover and pickguard screws belong to a particular guitar. I'm sure he'd say don't even worry about the pickups. Poor Leo must be doing cartwheels in his grave! He comes up with this wonderful idea, makes it work, only to have it fall apart for fear that not keeping your instrument original will cost you dearly somewhere down the road. Stop and think...this is whacked!![/i][/color] Applied specifically to "industrial" instruments like the bolt-together Fenders, this makes perfect sense. It'll never happen, of course, but it's something to think about. (And yes, I'm as much part of the problem as anyone else. ) [/quote] I don't see it as a problem, 99% of vintage guitars can be classes as 'players', where they have either replaced parts, non-original parts, extra routs, refinished wood, or just well-worn/played examples. These instrumenst will always be priced for the majority of keen vintage players and collectors, and will serve that purpose well. With the owners not being nervous about taking it on the road, or, if neccessary, changing parts to suit their own needs. In the case of a rare guitar, that is also near mint, and represents one of the finest examples available, it is only normal that it should be looked after, and kept as such by the owner. Most serious collectors I know, are fully aware of what they are buying, as they know their stuff. Every now and then, someone will fall foul of a poor deal, whether misrepresented, misinterpreted, or the buyer simply being keen and naive. Its certainly not a problem though. Most people I know who have been 'done', and there are a few, would openly admit that it was there fault, as they were either naiave, or simply followed a particular need for gas, somewhat blindly.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1328530473' post='1528459'] That's all fair enough, but he's charging top-dollar for a bass described as 'original vintage'. It may be, but the example above, and others I've read about too many times before, have tarnished him in my mind. That's not even his after-sales service - I'm aware of a UK-based buyer of one of his basses who got stung. Mind you, it's all a moot point as I'll never have the money to afford this stuff. [/quote] Theres nothing to suggest this bass is not 'original vintage'? As I said, if you're not convinced, then don't bid (If you were in the market for such a thing I mean, which most of us aren't!). I'm also aware of the UK buyer who had issues, if you're talking about the '74 CAR Jazz example??

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1328520689' post='1528261'] Here's a bit of background. There's more from other sources if you Google him... [url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/41792-amazing-antics-www-vintage-sales-com.html"]http://www.tdpri.com...-sales-com.html[/url] [/quote] Personally, I've never bought anything from him. having said that, I would have no problem whatsoever in buying from him. The important thing is to know what you are buying, and if you are unsure about any aspect, then ask the questions, and look at the pictures, if, following that process, there are still things you are unsure about, then make your offer/bid accordingly. Having read the thread on the link you quoted, it appears to be divided between those that understand the vintage market and process, and those that don't. Predominantly, the issue seems to be regarding the definition of 'original'. Personally I would define 'original', as how it left the factory. If a certain component has been replaced with an original, then I prefer it to be called a period correct replacement, which wouldnt overly put me off a purchase. This is not everyone else's interpretation though.As an example, If you had a 1962 Fender Jazz with no case, then purchased an original white tolex case for it, would you describe it as "Comes with non-original 1962 white tolex case"? No, it would be described, without controversy, as "Comes with original white tolex case". If you need more info about every component then ask, if you dont trust the reply, and then have doubts, then leave it alone. Quite simply, do you research, understand your game, and pay/bid what its worth to you, having gone through (With an item of this value/rarity), what should be a very rigorous component by component check. I think he has had some fab items over the years, which has resulted in people questioning it. I notice nobody questions the sellers who strip apart perfectly good instruments to make more money selling components. That should be a criminal offence, isnt there a vintage guitar equivelant of the NCPCB??

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1328484573' post='1528024'] I dont care how clean any guitar is. Not worth 20 grand of any idiots money. If it's worth that much it should be in a museum. They're not even very good for f's sake. "Have you got a dirty one? I'll clean it myself!" [/quote] Actually, any vintage player or collector will tell you that this is certainly worth at least £10k, so starting the auction at offers under £12k, is not unreasonable. Its probably the best '62 Jazz anywhere. What you mean, is it's not worth that much to you, which is fair enough, most people would agree with you. This bass is not aimed at most people though is it. The same way that a spotty deckchair cover isn't worth £15k to me, but Damian Hirst collectors would disagree. Everything has a market value (As opposed to a value to you, or me, or any other individual), and the market value of this, is somewhere in the region of his price. Regarding the comment "They're not even very good". Most bass players who have actually played an all original '60-'62 jazz, would probably tell you different. Having played one, and owned one many years ago, it was the nicest sounding, and easiest to play bass i ever touched. Anything as clean as this, is going to command top money, just like the '59 P he sold last month.

Stunning!! [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLEANST-1962-62-FENDER-JAZZ-BASS-PLANET-EARTH-ORIGNIAL-VINTAGE-INSANE-/360432195185?pt=Guitar&hash=item53eb6ed671#ht_10240wt_1202"]http://www.ebay.co.u...ht_10240wt_1202[/url] He has a matching mint '60 Precision too, worth a look.....