Rick's Fine '52

[quote name='gareth' post='1375408' date='Sep 16 2011, 12:42 PM']Does that mean in 10 years time "vintage" will be 83 or 73 then?[/quote]

Following that logic, it would be '83, and so on, i guess?

[quote name='neepheid' post='1375349' date='Sep 16 2011, 11:54 AM']You asked what's a "vintage" instrument. I offered the point of view that I do not recognise the term as being in any way relevant within the context, albeit in a ranty way, because it irritates me. It's meaningless balderdash, being further perpetuated by its continued discussion.

So we're only allowed to voice an opinion in your thread if we A) agree that vintage as a concept is valid and provide a year of manufacture before which basses are considered vintage or an age that a bass must achieve before it is considered vintage? Is that it?[/quote]

I started replying to that, then got bored, and decided not to bother, as i think everyone generally gets the point, and the mood I'm in today, I'm likely to offend, which would be silly.

Vintage as a concept clearly is 'valid'.

You said " I do not recognise the term as being in any way relevant within the context". How can the term 'vintage', not be relevant in the context of a discussion about what we consider to be 'vintage'. Sigh.

I think some people over think things, anyway, I'm gonna leave it there.

I'd hate to ask you about climate change....as a concept that is.

[quote]Reminds me of an episode of Hollyoaks that I saw - one of the characters was talking about "The Olden days, you know, the 70s".

But I suppose to someone born in the late 80s/early nineties, the 70s were part of long-ago history, which makes me feel rather old [/quote]

Exactly, thats my point, i think its as much to do with the persons age as the instrument.

[quote name='Hutton' post='1375277' date='Sep 16 2011, 10:54 AM']You've hit the nail on the head with this post Matt. A bass is a bass is a bass! I would rather have a brand new Fender Precision than some so-called 'vintage' instruments. The term vintage does not confer playability on an instrument. Yet the term is used to hike prices to silly levels. I have a 1984 Precision which is an excellent bass. If I was to sell it then I can expect to pocket about £400 - £500 less than a late 70s Precision. Why?- because the 70s seems to confer magic on Fenders. I have yet to play a late 70s bass that I though was better than my 84. Plus they have all been heavier. I remember the 70s - there were more bad Fenders than good ones. Also, some 'vintage' instruments are knackered yet still command high prices. I would be happy if the term vintage was simply dropped. After all this thread alone has shown that the term is not easy to define. Let's just treat each bass as we find it![/quote]

I think this post has been hijacked a little, and has turned into a "basses i like vs basses i don't is the important thing", which i completely agree with. I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise.


The post is to ask people what they consider to be a 'vintage' instrument, simple as that. The issues on whether vintage instruments are worth the money is an entirely different argument, one that has been debated at length on this forum alone. The market price of anything is based on demand. the whole fairy dust thing is lost on me. a good bass is a good bass if it was made in 1951 or 2011. Fenders are always considered more collectable because they reach a wider audience. I would imagine an Alembic Stanley Clarke, on paper, is a better bass than a fender precsion. But if you advertised them both, the people genuinly interetsed in an Alembic would be far less than those interested in a vintage fender for the same price, thats just the reality.

Did/do fender make great basses, yes, did/do they make firewood, yes.

Anyway, back to the subject, looks like it's '73 then.

[quote name='LemonCello' post='1375155' date='Sep 16 2011, 08:50 AM']I guess there is also the consideration that Vintage does not necessarily mean 'good'. As we all know there are some shocking examples of '70's Fender basses but some pearls too.

I've just aquired a late 70's Precision from Bass Direct which is definately a player. I knew this because I spent a good deal of time with Mark playing the thing and comparing it with others.

This is a great forum and I'm really happy to be a member and grateful for all the help and knowledge sharing. The thought of parting with say £2,000 for an instrument without playing it first is a bridge too far for me.

'Vintage' - what's in a word?

LC[/quote]

Thanks for the comments so far guys, some interesting views. The surprising one for me so far is the reference to quality, which has been mentioned more than once. I'd never previously associated quality with the term 'vintage', to me it was always a 'time' related tag. For example, a late 50's Kay bass would definitely be a vintage instrument, although i'm sure they are poor quality, sound crap, and have little desirability, but thats just me.

A few people have commented on 70's Fenders being poor quality, and have to say, in my experience the mid to late 70's Fenders do tend to have some quality control issues, and they are certainly alot heavier, but there are, as with everything, some exceptions. I've played some excellent 70's Jazz basses for example, and a certain Mr. Miller, arguably one of the best players in the world (Not my cup of tea by the way, but certainly at the top of his chosen profession), has chosen a late 70's instrument as his weapon of choice, so not all bad. I've also seen late 50's Precisions that are dogs, twisted necks, low pickup response etc. As with anything, i wouldnt recommend anyone to pay any significant amount for a 'vintage' instrument without playing it first, that would just be plain silly.

Keep the opinions/thoughts coming.

Thanks, Rick.

OK, so what do we consider valid criteria to be called ‘vintage’?

Sure there’ll be lots of varied opinion on this. Please bear with me…..

Reason I ask, is that I’ve seen a few late 70’s Fender basses advertised recently as 'vintage', and I’ve never considered these to be 'vintage' instruments.

My guide has always been pre-CBS for Fender as being a real ‘vintage fender’, but then there’s Musicman Stingrays, I wouldn’t have an issue with someone describing a ’77 Ray, as vintage, because as far as Ray’s go, the pre-EB models are desirable, collectable etc, and because of the pre/post EB being easy to separate, its an easy line in the sand to draw.

Then there’s things like Alembics, an original ’77 Series One, again, could easily be described as a ‘vintage Alembic’, as they are still made, and it needs to be described differently to a new one. No problem there.

With Rickenbackers, I always take 60’s instruments as being vintage (Don’t know why, guess it’s a decade thing, easy to differentiate), so anything post 70, I wouldn’t class as vintage, which is unfair, and go’s against my own logic, which as shown above is not consistent just with the age, as the brand plays a big part.

Does this mean that a first month Japanese JV Jazz Bass, like one I have, can now be considered ‘vintage’, surely not?, but if an ’82 pre-EB Ray is, then why not??

Having written this, I’ve maybe answered my own question, and I think my personal definition of ‘vintage’ is based on [i]my[/i] own age, and [i]not[/i] that of the basses I refer to. For example, I still consider a Jaydee Supernatural to be a ‘new’ bass, but an ’86 could probably, and justifiably, be described as ‘vintage’.

If I was 20 years old, I’d almost certainly consider a ’79 Precision to be ‘vintage’. I’m not, I’m 40, and to me a ‘vintage’ Fender, will always be a pre-CBS one, as for other makers, I think it’s very dependent on the brand/model etc.

I’m not for one minute suggesting any of the above is ‘right’, they are just my thoughts, and as basschat will have a variety of readers/contributors from teens to OAP’s, I thought I’d ask the question, to see, as I think is the case with me, its more a matter of the persons age, and not that of the instrument.

Could be very interesting to see the responses, and to help analyze those responses (If any?), it would be helpful if anyone showing an opinion could state their age (C’mon don’t be shy!), to see if there’s a pattern.

Perhaps this is part of the sub-conscious healing process of me reaching 40!!

(Huge apologies if this has already been covered, I’m fairly new!)

Thanks for being patient in reading my rambling!

Thoughts/Opinions??

Rick

[quote name='Clarky' post='1374143' date='Sep 15 2011, 10:37 AM']This is the guy I sold it to (eBayer kapb77) if you want to give him a shout!

[url="http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/kapb77"]http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/kapb77[/url]

Actually I just checked his feedback thread and he has since sold the bass on to someone in Japan - and at a profit

[url="http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/itmn4126"]http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/itmn4126[/url][/quote]

Shame, been looking for one of these for a while.

Most I've seen have black guards, and black TRC's, which just won't do at all!

Rick

[quote name='Clarky' post='1374947' date='Sep 15 2011, 10:12 PM']I took delivery of this lovely bass yesterday. Put on some some retro standard gauge La Bella flats on it and - wow, what a beautiful sound. Absolutely essence of P bass! Love it. Thanks again Rick [/quote]

Glad you're enjoying the bass, and pleased with your purchase. It is a fab sounding bass, served me well for almost 10 years, sounds like a bass should, with a lovely vibe, especially with flats, nice touch.

A very cool bass guitar!

Enjoy!

Rick.

Just sold a '53 Relic P-Bass to Clarky, easy transaction, pleasure to deal/talk with.

Spot on.

From the feedback here, obviously a well respected member/contributor to teh forum.

Rick

[quote name='Clarky' post='1374000' date='Sep 15 2011, 06:33 AM']As I know there are a few Stone Roses fans (eg, Rick's Fine '52) here is my old Rick 3000 which I owned about 5 years ago (long since eBayed). It was a fairly battered mapleglo colour and had butchered controls/scratchplate when I got it. I then had it custom painted by Martin Sims to a Fireglo finish for a Mani vibe and sourced original controls and scratchplate from the US. Huge, very Precision-like sound but sadly I couldn't get on with the short scale neck. Still, looked great IMHO

[attachment=89477:clarky_basss_015.jpg][attachment=89478:clarky_basss_010.jpg][/quote]

Can you get it back please, I want it!!

[quote name='Hobbayne' post='1373504' date='Sep 14 2011, 06:26 PM']I have been a bassist since 1983 and have nearly always played a Fender Precision, it has all the sounds I need.
I have played other basses in 28 years, but when I pick up a Fender bass its just like putting on an old comfy pair of slippers [/quote]


Nicely put.

Everyone see's the light eventually, just some sooner than others!!

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='1368722' date='Sep 10 2011, 05:15 PM']I noticed that. Also the skunk stripe looks a bit pist on the pic of the heel.[/quote]

Fender's infamous mid 70's poor QC i think, I've seen similar (And worse!) before.

[quote name='chrismuzz' post='1368128' date='Sep 9 2011, 09:58 PM']I don't know my Fenders but even I can see that's not an original Tele neck[/quote]

I don't see anything wrong with this neck, everything else on the bass has 'issues', but the neck looks fine to me.

[quote]
To me that's a bit like choosing between a kick in the nuts or smack in the face.... is there a cash alternative?
[quote]



Was thinking the same thing!

[quote name='tredders' post='1365787' date='Sep 7 2011, 09:25 PM']Did this get sold outside of eBay? I liked the look of that one...[/quote]

I'm afraid it did, its a fab bass, sold to a fellow basschatter.

[quote name='bigbottomend' post='1349918' date='Aug 24 2011, 09:13 AM'][/quote]

Very nice, is it a real one, or CS?

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1362624' date='Sep 5 2011, 09:43 AM']Oh that's a shame. I wonder why he would do that? He may have actually devalued it a little now.... unless like basses "relic'ing" a pup adds value too.
There is another way to tell though mate, the Antiquity should have a raised A pole, also you should be able to make out if the sleeving on the wires is waxed... it's hard to tell from the angle of your pic also there looks to be a bit of a shine on your black wire - could be wrong though. Also I believe the Antiquity II may have a lighter coloured lower bobbin - which yours clearly doesn't have so that would rule that particular one out.
I have been through just about every one of these type of pups, and for my money if there's no identity sticker, no raised A pole and no waxed sleeving I'd suggest it's the original Fender pup.[/quote]


Right, I have confirmed details on the pickup from the guy who put it in.

It’s a Seymour Duncan Basslines SCPB-2 Single Coil. He said he sanded off the writing on the top, and I now recall that I sanded off some more of it, when it arrived, as some was still slightly visible.

I have two more of these jap basses, including a Sting, and this pickup is far superior to those, so I knew it wasn’t a stock pickup.

Hope this clarifies, here's a brochure pic of the pickup;

[attachment=88765:scpb_2.jpg]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1362620' date='Sep 5 2011, 09:36 AM']I'm watching Rick, I'm watching. [/quote]

Didn't you used to have the Crinson??, I've got that now, although its been through my 'upgrade system', I must give you some pics of what it now looks like!

The finish on the Crinson is much better than this one, although that was far more expensive i'd imagine.

Keep watching, lots of interest already!

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1362624' date='Sep 5 2011, 09:43 AM']Oh that's a shame. I wonder why he would do that? He may have actually devalued it a little now.... unless like basses "relic'ing" a pup adds value too.
There is another way to tell though mate, the Antiquity should have a raised A pole, also you should be able to make out if the sleeving on the wires is waxed... it's hard to tell from the angle of your pic also there looks to be a bit of a shine on your black wire - could be wrong though. Also I believe the Antiquity II may have a lighter coloured lower bobbin - which yours clearly doesn't have so that would rule that particular one out.
I have been through just about every one of these type of pups, and for my money if there's no identity sticker, no raised A pole and no waxed sleeving I'd suggest it's the original Fender pup.[/quote]

I'm going to email the original owner, and ask him, i still have contact.

Watch this space....

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1362475' date='Sep 5 2011, 12:14 AM']Good call opening at that price you should attract quite a few prospective buyers... rather than those who start off high and lose out.

You say you have no way of verifying if it's a SD Antiquity pup. However, SD always put a sticker on the back of their pups to let you know the specific model, just whip it out and you'll know.[/quote]

Any sticker was removed, the guy removed all traces of anything like that, so i am unable to verify. I'm sure he's right, and it is, but just want to be as transparent as possible.
I try to be honest, and undersell if neccessary, to avoid any doubt or disappointment. I've bought too many things on eBay, often with poor descriptions, bad photo's, and less than helpful sellers, i try hard not to be like that.

Before you ask, yes, its mine, the only reason its not on the for sale section here, is because i don't know how much to sell for, no idea, and you need a price to post, so its here instead, have a look, and a bid if you fancy it.

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FENDER-PRECISION-1953-RELIC-Blonde-Blackguard-beauty-/220847112061?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item336b837f7d"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FENDER-PRECISION...=item336b837f7d[/url]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1362157' date='Sep 4 2011, 08:25 PM']Only thing is if the insurance is needed you'll have hard job getting refunded at proper value.[/quote]

Word of warning if thinking of asking the seller to declare lower value, firstly, if the seller is genuine and honest, and the item gets lost/damaged, then you'll only get the insured value in compensation.

Worse still, if you don't know the seller, as will often be the case, [i]this[/i] could happen (Assuming item is high value wihich is the majority of US purchases, cheaper items dont tend to be much different, certainly not worth the added risk of it flying half way round the world); Imagine you buy a bass for $4000, you ask the seller to declare it as a $500 bass. This save's you about a grand on fee's. The seller, puts an empty box in a carton, and sends it to you, you pay £50 charges and get the package home, open it, have a heart attack, then contact the seller, who says he packaged the instrument, you claim, and get $500. He gets your $4000, gets to keep the guitar he never sent, worth $4000, and pays nothing. Nice work fella!! You hear about this more and more in the vintage market, simple rule, dont risk it, if you want it, buy it, declare it legitimately. Or better still, fly yourself for £500, have a few nights in the US, carry it back, tell 'em its yours, spend all the potential duty fee's on more guitar gear!!

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='1359259' date='Sep 1 2011, 09:34 PM']Ted Weber does a leather dogbone handle. May be worth dropping him a line to see if the brackets match up - or if not, just use the leather bit with your existing brackets. Looks quite promising from the pic.

[url="https://taweber.powweb.com/store/tolexord.htm"]https://taweber.powweb.com/store/tolexord.htm[/url] (handle-d)

PS the failure rate on the traditional leather straps is high - thats why they were changed for the dog bones.

Just looked at your sig. That's some collection.[/quote]

Looks promising indeed, thanks for the info!

Not worried about longevity, it doesnt get moved about too often, the plastic just doesnt look right now i've relic'd and amber tinted the tweed.

Thanks again, and for the comments on the collection, house isnt big enough sadly, theyre all over the place, can't open a cupboard anywhere without a bass falling out....much to the good ladies annoyance!!

Cheers, Rick

[quote name='Subthumper' post='1359244' date='Sep 1 2011, 09:12 PM']Hi.have a look on www.hotroxuk.com they've got quite a good selection of amp parts for fenders. They got lots of other goodie too so watch for gas.
Cheers Just[/quote]

Thanks so much, i'll have a gander.

Rick

I have a '59 Tweed Bassman, that i am looking to replace the plastic dogbone handle with a leather handle. I've bought two of these now, after checking the details, and they hav eboth been wrong when they arrived.

The issue is the fixing screw hole centres on the holding bracket (See pic below), I cant seem to find brackets with correct, wider, spacing.

They must exist surely???

Anybody seen this before, or know where to get wider holding brackets?

I obviously dont want to add extra holes to the top of the tweed casing.

Thanks

[attachment=88426:bassman_handle.JPG]