Linus27

Does anyone know what speaker is in a MarkBass CMD121H combo and if it is the same as either the New York, Traveller or Club 12" cab speaker?

[quote name='51m0n' post='1342901' date='Aug 17 2011, 11:13 AM']Need to find an evening for another race mate, this time I'll remember to put some soft tyres on my car (excuses excuses!)[/quote] Yes we must. I will take a slower car this time so you can keep up. Maybe a 1.2 Fiesta or Polo

[quote name='51m0n' post='1342753' date='Aug 17 2011, 09:28 AM']I'd like to thank Linus for trying all of these ideas and coming back to us with his findings. For him it turns out more mids than he thought were right for the mix, in that space, on that day, playing those songs. He now has a ballpark from which to tweak at different venues.[/quote] No worries, I think its been a great discussion and not only has it helped me, hopefully it will help others when searching. For me, learning about how the 2EQ preamp works was really helpful. As was how the low mids and VPF filters change the dynamics. All good. I can now get back to doing what I do best, going fast in Gran Turismo 5

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1342715' date='Aug 17 2011, 08:47 AM']It's more than just curves. They interact with each other it seems. Whatever, it works. Whilst you are of course correct about flat and mids being our friend from a live point of view, I do find that the ray needs a slight boost of the bass knob to give the lows some body and feel. Each yo their own[/quote] Another thing thats worth taking into account is something Alex from Barefaced has mentioned. Its all very well having all these frequencies but if you have a bass cab that can't reproduce certain frequencies then you are always going to struggle. I think he said something along the lines that the Stingray goes down very low in the bass frequencies and also very prominent in the mids but if your bass cab can't reproduce these frequencies then you are going to struggle to get the best out of the bass. Seemed to make sense to me.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1342572' date='Aug 16 2011, 11:33 PM']Everyone was wrong then? It alters depending on what the other knobs are doing is that right? Im more confused now [/quote] I think everyone should just get a 2EQ and be done with it. They sound better anyway and why have 4 knobs on a bass when you can have 3

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1342550' date='Aug 16 2011, 11:10 PM']Everyone on here has always said the bass is boost only on all versions?[/quote] Mmm interesting, I don't know exactly for sure but I thought the 3EQ was cut and boost on bass, mid and treble. I am probably wrong and if so then thats something new I have learnt

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1342537' date='Aug 16 2011, 11:00 PM']Which actually means on a 3 EQ the detent is not flat its half boost.[/quote] Is that actually right? I thought the detent at 12 o'clock was flat.

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1342529' date='Aug 16 2011, 10:54 PM']Out of interest how does the 2eq work? I know there are no centre detents unlike the 3 EQ so what is flat?[/quote] As Pete says, I think the general feeling is that with the bass turned all the way off, this is flat and adding just boosts it. The treble is cut and boost although nobody really knows where flat is so I am going with the middle is roughly flat and using my ears.

Well rehearsal was very interesting. Played through the set with the settings posted above and it sounded alright. A little dark but generally good. We then played through the set again and this time I turned the VPF off and wow. The bass jumped out and had a lot more growl and attack. Still a little dark so I added about 10% more treble on the Ray and it just sounded so sweet. So this was my settings which I will try at the gig on Saturday. MB Combo Bass: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Mid Low: 10 o' Clock Mid High: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Treble: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) VLE Filter: OFF VPF Filter: OFF Stingray Volume: Full Treble: 60% Bass: 20% So after all that, apart from dialing the low mids off a bit, the MB combo works best flat and then set the treble and bass on the Ray to suit. Its been really helpful finding out how the 2EQ Preamp works. Thanks again for all the advice. Has been a real success for me to finally get the Stingray working and sounding great.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1342262' date='Aug 16 2011, 06:52 PM']Big is good Linus [/quote] Ooooh sir, you like them large do you

So a bit more fiddling tonight and this is what I have settled with so far. MB Combo Bass: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Mid Low: 10 o' Clock Mid High: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Treble: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) VLE Filter: OFF VPF Filter: 8 o'clock Stingray Volume: Full Treble: 50% Bass: 20% This sounded very clean and balanced and very close to the sound I am after. I could get it to sound good with no VPF filter but to my ears it sounded a little sweeter and less nasaly with a little turned on. I could also get it to sound very good with Pete's suggestion on turning the bass to full on the Ray but it did make the sound very big. I also had to put the treble on the Ray to about 60% and turn the bass on the MarkBass down to about 10 o'clock but the good thing is it was workable. I have rehearsal tonight which I will record so I will be trying these settings and reporting back. Going to try with no VPF at some point. Can I just say this thread has been brilliant. So very helpful and such a great wealth of knowledge. Thanks so far everyone for your input. I am determined to get a decent sound from my Stingray.

[quote name='Coilte' post='1342153' date='Aug 16 2011, 05:26 PM']Agreed, but so what, is the person wants and can afford it ????[/quote] Totally but thats not what I am saying. No harm in having a £5k bass for pub gigs or even home use, the same as its perfectly ok to have a McLaren F1 Road car as your daily drive if you want and can afford it. My Elise S1 used to be my daily drive and thats a road going trackday car.

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1341261' date='Aug 15 2011, 10:22 PM']I'd suggest the poll question is too vague to be particularly useful because it doesn't take proficiency or likely use into account. It's a bit like asking how much a car costs.[/quote] This is a good point and could then be expanded. It really depends on what its use is going to be. Lets say a car is £1k. Great for a run about but as a sports car, then not likely. So £10k on a sports car, well yes thats better but again, depends on your use. For trackdays and road use then yes, it would be a good sports car but to take part in competitive races, then probably not. So you can see where I am going. a £1k bass is probably going to be overkill for the casual bedroom player but for the working bass player doing gigs then its not that bad. Likewise, £5k on a boutique bass for pub gigs is a bit overkill. So I would say, its dependant on application.

I feel like I have opened up a right can of worms here

[quote name='51m0n' post='1341910' date='Aug 16 2011, 02:03 PM']No it doesnt, it removes mid at 380Hz. It is a mid-scoop filter. Period. Thats a VERY different thing indeed from adding punch, especially in the mix! You need low mid in the mix its 2nd and 3rd harmonics of your main low bass notes, the human ear picks up on these far easier than it does deep bass (ie fundamentals). I dont give a rats backside how awful it may sound on its own, and neither should you, it only matters what it sounds like at gig volumes in a mix. Have a go at a reahearsal at proper volume, your perception of bass is radically different at those volumes than at bedroom volumes. The right way to do thios is to set your sound up as you like it and record it (oom H2 or similar) at a rehearsal, then dial out the VPF completely and try again. Then set it to a compromise 'sensible setting' (ie not more than 9 O'clock) if you have to have it. The dialled out version will sit in the mix with more presence and require less bass boost to be 'heard'. Put simply, to your audience it means they hear more bass the more mids you can live with.[/quote] Ok will try that also. What I will add though is my bedroom volume is my rehearsal volume as I play in an acoustic band so no drums I also record all our regearsals with a Tascam recorder but I will tonight with no VPF and again at 9 o'clock. However, I have been down this road before and found that the bass was lost when I added VPF so I think I am falling into that trap again of it sounding great on its own but being lost among the acoustic guitars. I should know better really Maybe I will try everything flat with the low mid at 10 - 11 o'clock and boost some of the treble on the Ray and see how that sounds.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1341814' date='Aug 16 2011, 12:56 PM']Don't get to disheartened with it's apparent "nasally" sound, in a live situation or in a mix alot of this goes away and somehow turns into "prescence" in the mix. I have my F1 everything at 12'oclock, VPF and VLE filters off (12o'clcok isnt "flat" it's half way on!) some treble boost on the ray(sterling same and the BigAl has everything slightly boost and bass slightly cut) and the mid and bass flat. I realise again this is a 3eq. However a similar result should be gained from having the treble and bass pots on a centre position (IIRC 3eqs bass is still boost only) I would strongly recommend not using the VPF at all, or very sparingly! Once it reaches the 11'oclock you start losing considerable amount of mid prescence, especially as the control boosts the lows and highs further creating a mid scoop! Mid scoop is bad for a cutting bass sound, especially if you want the "basses" character to come through aswell. Other things come in to play aswell, like pickup bight and strings etc.[/quote] I will try all this tonight. My only concern is that with everything flat, it sounds hideous. Dull, flat, boxy and nasaly and in a really horrible way. The first thing I do to improve this is turn the low mid down to about 10 - 11 o'clock. This removes the nasal tone that I really can't stand. I then find adding a little VPF adds some punch and clarity. Maybe I will try it at around 9 o'clock and then use the treble on the Ray to add the sparkle.

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1341359' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:50 PM']This is what I used to do- Amp- all 4 eqs at 12 o clock, often a slight bass cut to around 5 to and sometimes the same slight cut on the low mid. Sometimes a touch of vpf but not much. Sr4 all flat maybe a slight on gig adjustment here and there but never much.[/quote] I think this is the way I am going with it at the moment.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1341239' date='Aug 15 2011, 10:05 PM']Yep , You should hear the EBS pre amp in my jazz, It's twice as huge! Just use less bass on the amp. You will find the majority of long-term ray players on bc use the controls like that especially on the 2 EQ, general opinions bass on full and use the treble pot like a tone pot.[/quote] Blimey Ok well I will give that a go also.

[quote name='Beedster' post='1341132' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:43 PM']Without doubt the worst combination of bass and amp I've ever owned was Stingray (several, both 2 and 3eq) and Markbass (several, combos and head/cab). I've heard the same about Rics and Markbass. Not sure it's much help, but thought I'd mention it [/quote] Thats interesting as it is generally considered that a MB and Stingray is a match made in heaven

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1341068' date='Aug 15 2011, 07:53 PM']I find the 2 EQ harder to get to the sweet spot than the 3's but nicer when you do. The treble is boost and cut, bass boost only. I use bass full on with all my Rays and adjust the treble to suit, mids just a tad of boost on the 3's.[/quote] Wow, bass on full on the Ray. When I try that my whole house shake. We have a big shelf in the kitchen with pots and pans on and they all started to rattle when I tried the bass on full

[quote name='51m0n' post='1341126' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:37 PM']VPF at 2 O'clock!!! Holy cow thats insane![/quote] Oh, was that bad See my post above as I did manage to turn it down to 12 o'Clock and boost the treble on the bass itself. Oh and I also turned the bass on the MB combo down to 11 o'Clock as it was still boomy on the E string a bit.

[quote name='51m0n' post='1341124' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:36 PM']Was this in a mix at war volume, or just at home in tthe practice room at sane levels? All that annoying honk will translate to presence in a mix you see. Or rather a lot of it will! Stingrays can be tricky, I've always found a decent jazz with new strings a doddle to get to sound nice. You can do worse than listen to some Bernard and hear how he got Stingrays to be fat and punchy as hell, thats where they really sound the beans for me. Still cant play one though - too heavy and the pickup is the wrong place after all the years spent playing basses with a jazz pup config. Keep fiddling about, a little upper mid may be just the ticket in a mix to get some of that clarity back, careful though![/quote] At first it was at home solo. However, I then played in the mix and it all turned on its head. The Ray cut through to the front of the mix like a dream with each note cutting through to the front. The Jazz on the other hand which sounded better solo was sitting in the middle totally just there and not really cutting through at all. It was quite shocking the difference. I then turned the VPF down to 12 O clock for the Ray and boosted the treble a little more on the dial on the Ray and it sounded better still. I also dropped the Bass (Low) on the MB combo to 11 O'Clock as the E string was string a bit boomy and bass heavy. Again, its still not perfect but getting there.

So, I plugged the Stingray into the MB combo and turned the bass and treble dials to off or flat. I then set all the EQ on the MB combo to flat and I must say, it sounded horrible. Dull, muddy, flt, lifeless and really middy or nasaly as I call it The first thing I did was dial the Mid Low down to about 10 O Clock and this really helped but it still sounded dull and flat. So I dialed about 1/5 of treble on the Stingray dial and it added a bit of sparkle. I continued to try different settings on the combo and I finally settled with the following, MB Combo Bass: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Mid Low: 10 o' Clock Mid High: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Treble: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) VLE Filter: OFF VPF Filter: 2 o' Clock Stingray Volume: Full Treble: 1/5th on Bass: Off (FLAT) This gave me a smooth warm sound with a bit of sparkle. Its still not perfect and lacks a bit of character and energy but its a start I guess. What I did notice is that when I plugged my Jazz in with these settings but turned the VPF Filter down to around 11 o'Clock then it sounded totally amazing. Lots of punch and growl. Very annoying as I am trying to force myself to use the Stingray rather than the Jazz but with the Jazz sounding this good, its making it very hard to play the Stingray