funkyspuke

7 string .. you crazy! well, that's a great start I would also love a Shuker

good morning BC'ers, I've been looking (and drooling ) at the following for sale thread for the last few days; [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/169475-fs-dingwall-super-j/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/169475-fs-dingwall-super-j/[/url] there is just something about this bass ... but it's purely the look of the bass that intrigues me (especially some of the basses on their online gallery)! I played a Dingwall bass a couple of years ago, not sure which model, it was a passive 5 string. I wasn't at all bothered by the tone, but really liked the feel and the fanned frets! so, has anyone out there played a Dingwall Super Jazz? does anyone own one? what are your thoughts? how do they compare to say, a Sadowsky? are they worth the money? thanks

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1328127472' post='1522412'] I wonder how many people play in a band and think that it would be easy to rent some space that they can use for rehearsals and hire out when they're not using it. Musicians don't usually make good businessmen, that's why there are so many agents around. Running a studio is going to be like any other business and there will be a ton of overheads. A friend of mine tried it and fell at the first hurdle when the council came round and pointed out that his lease wouldn't allow him to do what he wanted to do. He was stuck with a unit that he couldn't use and couldn't sub let. An expensive mistake. Get a solicitor to look over anything like that. I'm not sure that being in a band, having a full time day job and running a studio in the evening is something that is easy to pull off. [/quote] all bases will be covered ... I've done a lot of research and found out that many new studios are open without any form of market research or even a business plan. this is what we are going to be doing ... we are also seeking investment and grants, which are out there under particular circumstances. the research will be extensive, the ideas involves more than just a rehearsal & recording studio ... but if the research suggests that it won't work, we won't do it. I can say that the advice, feedback and replies on here have been extremely valuable and greatly appreciated you will all be welcome to a visit and free breakfast and jam session. we might even hold bass chat bass days at this place

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1328090233' post='1521496'] If you're looking to set up a studio my thoughts are: Be on site all the time or get someone you trust, who knows about gear and pay them well to be there. I think many owners just think they'll hire a unit, sound proof it, fill it with gear and pay someone a few quid to take bookings. An online diary system so you can see what rooms are free before you phone up to book. It's a nightmare trying to book when the girl at the desk is trying to be helpful but you can't see what she can see. Check out [url="http://www.graphicnature.co.uk/"]http://www.graphicnature.co.uk/[/url] Chris is an all round nice guy and has really put some time and energy into getting it right. I think if you price rooms appropriately you will weed out the Chav element. Have a couple of bare basic rooms with el cheapo gear and price it a lot differently to rooms with high end gear in it. Don't allow eating or drinking in the rooms, other than water. Basic consumables available for sale, strings, sticks, leads, snare heads. Have a few spare leads and mark them up for people to borrow. Be available on the mobile phone at all times and get back as soon as you hear a message. If you are planning to run the studio and do recording sessions and not available to take calls you need to have someone who has access to the diary and can take the calls for you. [/quote] hey, thanks for the great advice it's amazing how much customer service can have an influence on peoples perception! noted and cemented! thanks

[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1328085112' post='1521412'] We used to use a studio in Balham that had shockingly poor equipment. Dodgy wiring meant amps would frquently cut-out and the people running the place would just suggest giving it a bit of a wiggle. One time we spent about an hour trying to find a guitar amp that worked at all. Another time, the girl who was looking after the place decided she needed to pop to the shops so locked everyone in this place with the fire hazzard of dodgy wiring. When she returned we gave her sh*t and never went back. We have now found a really cool place in Camberwell with excellent equipment and decent people who know how to respect and look after stuff. Shop around. [/quote] I feel annoyed just reading about that studio there are studios popping up all the time and the majority of them just don't seem to be getting it right ... even from the outset. I've just been contacted by a new studio in Leeds wanting my advice after posting a similar topic on the Leeds Music Scene. They want me to advise them on the equipment that they should be using it's good to hear that some studios want to get it right. Is there anything that you would wish your studio offered or did?

it seems like live recordings are a little treat

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1328026589' post='1520517'] I think that if you have the cash to invest,offering the PV combos etc as part of the fixed rate is cool, but being able to offer the markbass,TE or ampeg to the more discerning customers for a little extra might help cover all the levels of customer. In my experience, any band that works hard in a rehearsal as opposed to youngsters who want to make some noise,usually prefer to use their own gear. Intervals between bands are essential for basic turnover and room maintenance.Just make sure the band knows when their time is up. I used to knock on the door till they heard and tell them they were done. I would say no to food, bit messy, but beer, yes! You can make a decent mark up on beer and cola etc, helps pay the bills. Used to be much worse when people smoked indoors. No matter how many times you asked them to use the ash trays, the fags ended up on the carpet. [/quote] good advice and points made beer for the win!

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1328025604' post='1520495'] It helps build loyalty doesn't it? I still remember him saying: "Sorry, we've had to change the cymbals. The guy from Mindbleed keeps splitting them." You don't need to even ask what music a band called Mindbleed would play, do you? And yes, the volume knobs were all turned up to the max every time we followed them into the room. [/quote] Mindbleed ... haha! amazeballs!

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1328025372' post='1520488'] The one in this place used to check amp/pa settings as soon as he walked through the door. He took the time to talk to the band and find out what they wanted and then help tweak settings if necessary. [/quote] seems like a sensible / good idea to me. also helps you engage with the musicians and understand more about them and their music!

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328025178' post='1520479'] You wouldn't build a business model around the 3 string type. So would you discriminate against them and turn them away if they have a nailed on bridge and a gaffa taped strap? Or would you wait until the were a bit rough bust your fancy gear before saying they aren't allowed back? [/quote] gaffa taped strap ... that made me giggle cost for potential damage to equipment has been built into my business model in the form of 'weekly repair and maintenance costs'. So, no one would be turned away initially purely based upon how they looked .. but trouble causers and people who neglect equipment would either be given a firm finger wagging or ban.

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1328024881' post='1520471'] I guess if you were setting up and wanting to really spend once and protect that investment, you'd stick power amps and any other 'set and forget' equipment for the guitars, bass and PA in a locked rack in the corner / in another room, all pre-set to a reasonable maximum volume, then run out to the speaker cabs in the room via wall boxes and have a patch bay and rack mixer for people to plug mics and preamps into. Couple of basic WYSIWYG rack preamps as the provided 'rigs', and maybe the option to hire more adventurous ones at a price. I haven't given this more than the last 10 mins in though, so I'm sure there are things you'd need to work out, but it's got to be harder to screw equipment up if you can't access most of it, and I reckon the pre/power idea would mean less stuff (and less expensive stuff) was out of action at any one time. Just a thought [/quote] a very interesting idea indeed ... one that does need some thought

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328023944' post='1520450'] even being polite. It doesn't take long for word to get around that you are turning down customers. Will you be anyones first call if they think you will say no? If the customers you don't want and are going to turn away are the type that are going to be the high percentage of your predicted clientèle it's going to be a bit of a silly business model. Like McDonalds refusing to serve Chavs. [/quote] I have no idea if the 'majority' of customers are going to be idiots that care not for other peoples equipment ... I also wouldn't build a business model around providing rehearsal rooms for kids with 3 strings and nailed on pieces of wood the rehearsal studios that I have been to (and spoken to) have a large majority of customers who do care for and respect the equipment that they use. it's these people that spread a positive imagine for the studio ... yes, there will be a few people who spread a bad word or two ... but again, that's business and not a deterrent for me. in addition to this, if idiots are telling other idiots not to use a studio, then bonus your last comment is along the lines of discrimination and would lead to refusing business to people that have never used your business / product before. if someone walked into your shop and stole £100's worth of your stock, you wouldn't allow them in again just through fear of being bad mouthed by a thief!

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1328022670' post='1520423'] One place I reheased at, in the late 80s, used to give you a battered Carlsbro combo for the first few weeks. If you proved you could be trusted you'd get access to better gear, ended up using a TE 4x10 combo. At the end of the sessions one of their guys would come and help pack away so they could check what you had done (and to set up the room for the next users). They didn't do this in an overbearing manner,so it didn't really feel like you were being watch like a hawk. [/quote] makes perfect sense to me

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328021833' post='1520412'] I used to do weekend work at a place with a karting track (I did the car end of things) The karts etc were deliberately picked because they would get wrecked. The cost of repairs and replacement clutches was all worked out before a Kart ever touched the yard. They get smashed it's part of the business. Same with the rally cars I worked on at the other side of the hedge. They could have went for full blown dogs balls cars, but no point they get broke, they need repaired cost efficient repairs and a good supply of parts was better than telling customers we have this that and the other and then waiting a week with a car out of action because they've ran out of half shafts and the supplier has to order more in. Edit to add after a ewhile they even redesigned part of the Kart circuit to take out part that was heavy on clutches (Which was a shame it was my favorite bit) A range of equipment depending on the band is going to quadruple start up costs. It's going to mean storing more gear in the studio more leg work moving it about AND of course little Johnny with his 3 strings and bridge held on a with a few nails all carried in a bin liner is going to give off because he gets a Peavey whilst Henry and his Dingwall gets the lovely Mark Bass locked away in another room. Telling customers to f*** off, well I wonder how long it would stay open with that attitude [/quote] it wasn't meant literately haha ... but if a customer has no respect for a studios equipment or it's owner, then why should he be shown respect back? it's the kind of people you don't want. pubs kick out and bar people every single day, as these people upset other customers and give the place a bad reputation ... same principal applies with a studio I would assume, if someone is constantly breaking your equipment through lack of respect (rather than understanding) then they are told not to come back. you have to spend money to make money .. I have always lived by that rule. A great investment initially leads to greater rewards later ... if managed properly.

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1328020830' post='1520398'] I never asked. The booking was taken care of by the guitarist. I would've been happy with that as long as we had some flexibility to cancel (holiday, illness etc), as with the usual arrangement, which is to block book, then confirm next week when paying for this week's session. I think they don't charge for cancellations so long as they have three days notice. There's always a waiting list for the slots, so I think they fill them easily. When I was made redundant a few years ago I worked with the local Chamber of Commerce start-up people with a view to having my own rehearsal studio business, but one small-scale one started up close to my home while I was getting the business plan together and then one of the two big ones announced they would be moving to new premises (their old one was pretty down at heel). I chickened out, which was a shame, but probably the right thing to do. The smaller one went out of business after a few months. Interestingly, the small one included a free service which was to record the middle hour and hand you a CD of the recording as you left. It was taken from a couple of microphones in each studio, up by the ceiling. The sound was unmixed, so very basic, but a handy reference. That sold it for me, but we were one of the few bands that used the studio (it was only three miles from Norwich city centre), so it gradually died. [/quote] very interesting .. the 'live recording' idea they had could easily be expanded upon ... offering it for free seems like a bizzare idea to me?

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328020133' post='1520384'] One Question If you owned a Rehearsal space and knew you were going to get some f*** wits who have no idea what they are at and just want to make noise and say to folk "I'm in a band" . Guys that turn up with a bass they found in their mates garage held together with Duct tape and nails. Guys that have no comprehension of EQ or when a speaker is saying I'm having enough wouldn't have a bean when the Amp is getting overloaded. No idea on how to treat a valve amp (I would include my self in that one) . Thats before you get onto drummers who just bash away on the provided kit. Would you go out and buy high end gear for these guys to use??? I'll go out on a limb here and if anyone has run a rehearsal place wants to correct me fair enough. But I would say the numpties who don't care about their own gear never mind someone elses out weighs the number of guys hiring out the place who treat everything with respect. [/quote] There are always idiots in all walks of life and business … I knew a mate who worked at a Go Karting arena and he had a party of chavs in that smashed his karts to bits! He didn’t know it was going to happen and it cost him a lot of money to repair them. But it was money he had saved aside / built up as cash flow. Now, if these chaps ever called to book again, the answer would be simple … F*** OFF! the same would apply to a rehearsal studio. The answer, in my mind, would be to offer a range of equipment that vary in quality. For the smaller rehearsal rooms, which are likely to be cheaper and therefore (and this is a pure assumption) likely to attract people less likely to care for equipment, you offer reasonable combi amps. But better quality equipment is on offer for those willing to use it .. therefore you would hope these people do care about the equipment. I don’t believe that offering sub-standard equipment across the board is the answer.

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1328019906' post='1520380'] Over here in the east there are a couple competing, so their rates are stuck around £25 for three hours. Kit provided includes PA, basic drum kit, bass amp and two guitar amps. Mind you, vacant slots are few and far between. Once you've got hold of a regular practice slot, you don't let go of it lightly! The bass kit changes depending on what's been knackered and what's just come in. If it doesn't work when you get into the studio, they dig out another one straight away. It's mostly fairly budget combos, but it does the job (i.e. practicing arrangements, not recording). Just recently I've hooked up with a drummer I used to play with. He has his own practice space we rent from him. It only costs us a bit less, but we can use his pro-level kit and PA and leave our own amps there if we like. He's flexible on hours and last-minute changes and is using our cash to upgrade the carpets etc in his studio. And it's pretty safe with the all the guard dogs there! [/quote] did the other studio offer you a discounted rate if you block booked and did you pay this upfront (by direct debit for example)?

[quote name='CyberBass' timestamp='1328015630' post='1520274'] Being a studio owner I can see both sides of the story so to speak. I can understand your frustration regarding hiring equipment etc. I charge £5 to hire a guitar or bass amp per rehearsal. I could not afford to put high quality amps to hire as I find that not all musicians respect the equipment and in some cases almost abuse it, thankfully not too many and those that do get to learn by there ways, on average I get through numerous drum stands, drum seats etc due to over tightening, cross threading, general wear and tear. If you appreciate a rehearsal I charge £25 inc pa mics stands and drum kit, I run a financially tight ship, so virtually run at a loss from a rehearsal booking perspective. There are numerous threads about kit sharing nightmares, it's exactly the same with amp hirage it's a gamble each time you hire them out. Anyway, I hire out a trace Elliot 100 watt 15" combo it competes with most metal bands etc, and have never had any complaints that it's under powered. I know it's may be frustrating, but see it from the studios perspective as well. On the other hand, the studio financially runs better generally daytimes and weekends as a recording studio. When I record, I am always happy lending bassists my rig to record at the studio without charge :-) [/quote] I'm keen to see it from 'both sides of the story' also ... it's interesting to hear peoples views and perception on rehearsal studios. it seems to me that there is a general level of acceptance, both on the part of the musicians and studio owners. If a rehearsal room charges reasonable to cheap prices, then I would expect the equipment to reflect this. However, it should also work the other way. it's also interesting to hear that the rehearsal side runs at a loss. may I quiz you on this at a later stage via PM (I won't be intrusive haha, it would be good to understand what costs there are etc). [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1328016889' post='1520307'] the studios i practice at started out with good gear, but over the years these have been mistreated by the people that have used them, as is the case with a lot of places i imagine. whilst 99 percent of users will treat the gear with respect, there is always one twat who won't, and this is probably the reason why gear at practice rooms are either poor quality or broken. ive always used my own gear, yes its an arse to carry about, but at least i know that it works and that no twat has broken it [/quote] It's that 1% that you need to get through to ... be it with a small induction before hand? or even sit in a listen to them play a tune, engage with them and offer your services as an engineer. if you explain to them it's to protect your equipment, then I'm sure they will oblige. [quote name='Subbeh' timestamp='1328016938' post='1520310'] The fifteen minute thing is a nice idea, suppose it would add up quickly and eat into profit but it's so bloody annoying when a band finish bang on the hour and want to spend ten to fifteen minutes of your time packing away. [/quote] there is a studio in London that I know of that has a gap between each session to check the room and then set it up based upon a bands specification. I have no idea if it eats into their profits, but it gives bands more time in the studio rather than waiting for others to leave.

[quote name='Gwilym' timestamp='1328008172' post='1520107'] Not quite on topic, but one of my biggest disappointments of last year was seeing that Enterprise Studios (near Denmark St in London) did not get demolished to make way for the massive cross-rail project. Many buildings in the area were levelled, but they literally stopped 1 short. It's the worst place I've rehearsed in London, but because of its location still does well. [/quote] what in particular about it's location, makes it do well?

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1328006832' post='1520080'] I used to run a rehearsal studio, as part of a recording studio,and there`s not a lot of money in it after electric, insurance,security,. business tax and gear maintenance. However, studios should supply decent kit if they are charging for it. I really think that nowadays, any band rehearsing at least once a week should seriously consider their own room in a mill space etc. Think about how the costs compare. Rehearsal room once a week =£30 on average,some with storage (extra) some without, ballache moving kit and amps etc,takes half your time up. So that`s £120 a month plus storage and/or transport. I`m currently paying £200 for a room, but have just found one for £150. Between 4 members that`s £40 per MONTH each member.=tenner a week.. For that you get exclusive use, you get to leave your kit, amps and P.A set up, and can store all your crap there too, which means mega brownie points at home. The moment you start to rehearse more than once a week, you`re saving loads. Some bands I know have managed to do a room share with another band they trust and that halves the cost. I know some bands aren`t in the position to make that financial committment, but for those that can, it`s a no brainer. [/quote] we did share an industrial unit with a few other bands and it was about the price your stating .. it was awesome, all the best equipment, large open space and we could spend as much time as we wanted. but (for reasons I won't bore you all with) a couple of the bands f***** it up for the rest of us! if you've had some experience in running a studio, it would be great to get some of your thoughts, suggestions, pitfalls, frustrations from you if you have time at some point. might drop a PM with a few questions if that's cool

[b]has anyone got any other frustrations or thoughts? is there anything that you would like your current studio to offer i.e. live recording whilst using a rehearsal room, chill out area that offers drinks / food? does your studio have a 'change over' period between bands i.e. 15 mins between each booking?[/b]

WOW thanks for all the comments guys ... I'm sat at work trying my best to get some 'work' done and my phone's buzzing every minute with replies! In shall attempt to reply to all the comments above; Storage - I would say half of the studios I've been to have offered storage. A few don't and some have stopped offering it. The ones that stopped offering storage gave many reasons .. insurance premiums going up because of storing 3rd party equipment, bands not paying for storage (the mates I know said money for storage was the most difficult to get out of people), constant calls at all times of the day to get stuff out of storage etc. Equipment set up tuition / checking - if a studio sets aside a 15 minute slot to ensure that all equipment (after a band has finished) is in working order and then give the musicians a once over on how to use it ... I think that would be beneficial! I understand many musicians want to just 'rock up' and they think they know best, but it's your own studio and you should be firm and take pride in what you have created! [b]has anyone got any other frustrations or thoughts? is there anything that you would like your current studio to offer i.e. live recording whilst using a rehearsal room, chill out area that offers drinks / food? does your studio have a 'change over' period between bands i.e. 15 mins between each booking?[/b] thanks again people!

[quote name='stef030' timestamp='1328000201' post='1519971'] whilst I understand the frustration, and as the op says,he would pay up to £14 ph if it had good gear, a half decent set up cost £6/7/800 to be thrashed within a inch of its life at any given time,times 2 or three or four rooms,how long would it take to recoup the cost before profit, and then replace, if prices were £20/£25 ph then ok,but at £9 ph hmmm, sorry just my take on it,not here to offend, chees stef [/quote] hey stef, no offence taken ... I'm here to gather everyone's opinion. my mates own their own studio in West Yorkshire and they said the same thing you did ... but laughed at me at the same time yes, the initial cost would be much more when going for a decent set up, but I feel that there are savings to be made when not having to replace cheap equipment only a few months down the line. and places like basschat and ebay (and it's a buyers market at the moment) offer many opportunities to purchase decent equipment and very reasonable prices. the Hartke 4x10 T cab as an example cost me less than £100. maybe there is some a middle ground between poor and top range equipment?

[quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1328000025' post='1519968'] Got to look at it this way - not everyone is as experienced with equipment and it only takes a few "kiddy" bands turning everything up to 11 for gear to get wrecked, so its unlikely any rehersal studio will invest in real quality gear. I accept whatever is available rather than lugging my Ampeg out, though obviously the dream would be a lock-up wqhere we could leave all our own gear and use that. [/quote] should studios maybe not spend 5 mins doing an induction on all the equipment such as amps, cabs, PA etc? Maybe a choice of equipment could be offered at the booking stage? that way, those experienced enough will opt for the more advanced / expensive equipment and look after it .. the less experienced may opt for the combi amps, but they would still be of decent enough quality so that there was no need to crank up to 11