Coilte

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1398595072' post='2435532'] Music is not a competition. [/quote] I agree. However, I think most would agree that some people are more adept at expressing themselves through music than others. They may also be better at "playing off" of what another musician plays, thus inventing something new him/herself, as in being spontanious. No, it is not a competion, but the fact remains.

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1397476581' post='2424218'] I'm glad to hear you have nothing against creativity though [/quote] That would depend on the "creation" itself.

Interesting topic, as I have had some recent experience of auditioning for an originals band myself. I have always liked playing covers which BTW does not have to mean playing note for note form the original. That is what "Tribute" bands are for. It is possible and very rewarding to take a song and put your own stamp on it. Granted, without anyone writing originals there would be no new music coming on stream. It is just that the majority of original stuff (especially in "Rock") I have come across does absolutely nothing for me. The originals band I applied to join, sent me some demos. Sounded quite bland and boring to me. Could I have written better ? Possibly not, but the point remains. I can however, see the advantage of playing originals, in that you are starting with a blank canvas and have a chance to come up with something that [u]you [/u]thought of, be that bland or otherwise. Perhaps at some stage I will join an originals band. For now, I am quite happy playing covers.

[quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1397454363' post='2423964'] When im pain, seek medical advice. The internet doesn't know you like your physician does. [/quote] Yes. Excellent advice. However, as the OP says that he only experiences this problem after gigs, I think it is reasonably safe to assume that something he does ( ..or does not do...) during the gig, causes the problem. A doctor will prescribe tablets for the pain, but I doubt if he can contribute much towards correcting the cause. The above is not to say that I would ever dismiss seeking medical advice.

Sometimes without realising it we can tense up, and stay that way over the course of an entire gig. A 3" strap should be wide enough for comfort, so my guess is that the strap is not the cause, though you could try others. I have two suggestions: 1. About ten minutes before the start of a gig, find yourself a quiet corner (not always easy, I know) and do some shoulder stretches (see link below......search You Tube for "Yoga Shoulder/Neck Stretches" for more..). Spend about two minutes or so doing these stretches. Also do them at the interval and at the end of the gig ( even better..before you hit the sack for the night). Do them again when you get up. 2. Try to be aware of your body tensing up (again, easier said than done at a gig). It may seem an odd thing to say but....dont forget to breathe !!! Try to take in [u]slow deep[/u] breaths as often as you can. This helps to keep the body relaxed. Hope this helps. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmfqy8ApUWc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmfqy8ApUWc[/url]

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1397236785' post='2422144'] If you want a bass for funk, this is what you want: In fairness, if you actually could work out how to isolate one of the Precision pickups, you'd probably be able to get a decent Motown sound out of it... Jon. [/quote] Bootsy......All that glitter on the body ....now I know why he is always pictured wearing sunglasses.

[quote name='TimJ' timestamp='1397207286' post='2421717'] I really just wanted to establish a fair starting point. I think I am veering slightly towards a P/J hybrid at the moment. [/quote] Fair enough. In that case I think a G&L Tribute SB2 strung with flats would be a great choice. [url="http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/TributeSeries/basses/SB-2_new/index.asp"]http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/TributeSeries/basses/SB-2_new/index.asp[/url]

Naturally with a thread like this, you are going to get all kinds of answers. IMO flats would go a long way towards giving you the Motown sound. Personally, I would not choose a certain bass because X,Y, or Z used one, but because [i]I[/i] like that particular bass. If you really want to be good at funk it would be better to concentrate more on the nuts and bolts (technique, syncopation etc) of the music itself, and pick a bass that [i]YOU[/i] like. Having the same bass as X,Y or Z is not going to make you play or sound like them.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1396873085' post='2418164'] I recognise it is a very valuable and intrinsic part of music, but for me, and maybe this is my rebellous side, I spend far too long reading about legal updates and I have done for about 8 years now, so to be honest, I don't have time to get to grips with music theory. Music to me is a stress relief. I'd rather just learn more on 6 string guitar and write more music. [/quote] I'd say a lot of people will identify with this. What's being argued about is some people's dismissal of theory as being unnecessary and/or limiting.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1396801072' post='2417463'] I went from DR Strings roundwound to the TI strings & can honestly say that although I knew they were a lower tension, it never once crossed my mind when I was playing with the band. It's not like playing elastic bands. [/quote] +1. People differ on whether they are "floppy" or not. Personally, I dont find them floppy, though I do have a light touch. OP, TI's are expensive initially (not in the long run as they last so long), so you have a choice to play with a lighter touch and enjoy the TI's or forget about them, as IMO they dont lend themselves very well to "digging in".

[quote name='ken_white' timestamp='1396724140' post='2416829'] Are a lot of people in cover bands spending lots of time working to tab? [/quote] You are opening another can of worms here !!

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1396720371' post='2416784'] When a player only wants to play in a covers band which means learning someone else's lines parrot fashion, why spend hours learning endless modes and diminished scales when he/she will never use them. If that player then chooses to move into a genre such as jazz then those skills will be useful but not before. So why waist time. [/quote] I can see the point you are making, but IMO anything you learn that leads to a fuller understanding and enjoyment of music, is not a waste of time. You dont have to lock yourself away for hours on end, sweating over modes or scales. Just to be open and curious about the "nuts and bolts" of how music works is all that is required, rather than dismissing theory out of hand as being unnecessary or limiting.

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1396558982' post='2415187'] Even Jeff Berlin doesn't recommend learning things you will never need. [/quote] Berlin also does not recommend using the metronome. Some agree...the majority don't.

Because the OP specifically asked about [i]scales [/i]for this thread, this is (correctly) what we all have been talking about. However, while there is no denying how important it is to study them in dept, they are only one aspect of what is required to be an "all round" musician. Knowing about chord tones, approach notes, harmony etc are equally important. If, as I mentioned in an earlier post, "knowing" scales consists of playing up and down the neck from root to root, this is not going to be of much help. Besides, as a bassist, it is chord tones/arpeggios we will play for the majority of the time. This is explained here on "Studybass" : [url="http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/"]http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/[/url]

[quote name='ThePapabull' timestamp='1396649564' post='2416204'] I'll definitely be trying either the HI BEAMS or THOMASTIC JAZZ ROUNDS [/quote] Just be aware that the Thomastik rounds are pricey. I can only vouch for the flats, but I have read great reviews about the rounds as well. One of the cheapest places IMO to find them is : [url="http://www.lordofthestrings.com/lots/RALBD/Thomastik/1570.html#1010"]http://www.lordofthestrings.com/lots/RALBD/Thomastik/1570.html#1010[/url] Though converting from sterling to euros might add to the cost.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1396638156' post='2416010'] Look pal. I have nothing against theory. [/quote] Wow... !! Lighten up a little !! No need to go on the defensive. It's all the same to me whether you are for or against theory. I was merely trying to make a point by way of an analogy. Take it or leave it....doesn't matter.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1396636645' post='2415990'] Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats or Jazz Rounds are both low tension. [/quote] +1. TI's are one of the lowest tension rounds and flats out there. Depends on the tone you require.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1396620850' post='2415764'] no it wouldn't. It would be like saying notes are bollocks if using your alphabet analogy. It does consist of rules....and guidelines. Baroque harmony is theory. No consecutive fifths or octave between notes etc. Serialism has specific theory rules. Scales have rules, intervals that decide them etc [/quote] I am not sure I understand what you are getting at here. Lets take the alphabet/scales analogy a little further. The letters of the alphabet are the building blocks of the English language, as scales are to music. When we are at school we learn our spellings and how to pronounce words etc. When we have learned all this, we can then arrange all these letters into words to be creative and to communicate with others. There are no "rules" as to what word should follow what. That's entirely up to us. However, in order for things to make some sense, the actual letters must take on a certain pattern in order to compose words. So it is not correct to say the the alphabet (scales) itself is limiting. The only thing that limits us is our lack of knowledge and creative ability. Once you know how to use the alphabet, the sky is the limit.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1396606277' post='2415578'] Best thing for me was lucking out meeting a very very good piano who liked a drink so I got the 'in' as I would drive him. His knowledge was very good, but he never was too much of a strict reader. I found that out pretty quick, but he got all the gigs and I just went with it. He could make sense of any chart even if he never actually played it...and then you needed a combination of good ears and the ability to hear his changes that weren't written. Once you have them, then they crop up more often that you'd think and a quick nod would take you down that route. His sense and knowledge of harmony would keep the tune in check even if a horn was soloing. That education was invaluable when you got exposed to substitutions that he'd throw in... By the same token, we had a gtr who was known to read 'fly-**** and played all sort shows and pit gigs but he wasn't the guy you'd call for the type of gtr gigs we'd know. I'll say no more.................. [/quote] Good point. The more "tools" you have at your disposal the better. It always amazes me that the people who dismiss theory are the ones who dont know any. ALL aspects of knowing and playing music are both helpful and add to the enjoyment and understanding of it. Purposely dismissing any aspect does not make sense to me. Granted, some may have no need or interest in learning certain things, but that does not render them useless in general.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1396604579' post='2415548'] I used to know lots and used to make a point of learning them. But the more theory and musical ideas I consumed made me realise scales were bollocks and tend to lock you into certain things and phrases. I think a wider understanding of harmony, notes relating to current chord that you are on and where you are going with a hint of relation to the key or tonal centre, whilst knowing all the notes on the neck and intervals etc is what is important. Also your ear....f*** the rules. [/quote] Saying that scales are b*****ks and locks you into certain things is like saying that the alphabet is b****cks and does the same. Scales are the building blocks of music. It's how you use them that's important. As for "rules", theory does not consist of rules, just guidelines.

[quote name='achknalligewelt' timestamp='1396600591' post='2415475'] I admire scales-y people. I go by ear, and so although I reckon I hit it right about 95% of the time, I admit, sometimes I lack that [i]perfect[/i] note that those with better theory can manage. [/quote] Playing by ear is a great asset to have. However IMO, without some basic theory, it is similar to being able to speak the English language, but not able to read a book or magazine.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1396599967' post='2415459'] I'd love to be one of those players that just instinctively plays the right notes without knowing anything about the underlying theory, just jamming along to stuff and naturally playing nice flowing basslines in the correct key... Unfortunatly i am just not that naturally talented... Knowing my scales, modes, diatonic theory etc. has given a non natural like me the chance to write interesting basslines and hold my own with some great musicians over the years. Theory has given me the chance to play and compose material I would never have just been able to invent out of nothing. It's also given me the confidence at a jam that I can get up and play any style, even if I've never heard it... tell me the key sig and I'm off. Scales work for me [/quote] Good post ! What exactly do people mean when they say they [i]know[/i] their scales ? For most, it means being able to play from root to root all over the neck at a million MPH. While this is not a bad thing it is not the full story. Really knowing scales means being aware of how chord tones are made from them and why some chords are minor, some major, and some diminished. It also involves knowing how to harmonise the scale. NOW !.....how many people know their scales ?

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1395420423' post='2402301'] Listen to the hi hat and beat 1. If you follow that you won't go far wrong [/quote] Excellent advice as far as groove is concerned, but it does not tell you [i]what notes[/i] to play, which form what I can gather, is what the OP is asking about.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1395414759' post='2402219'] Try using a scale, run or arpeggio & for the 1st note or 5, don't use the root. Try starting from the 3rd or 5th (or even the 9th) & run down/up/wobble about. [/quote] Good advice. Starting on something other than the root note can give a different "flavour" to the chord. It may not always be appropriate, but knowing about inversions is well worth while. OP, here is a link you could refer to from time to time : [url="http://www.scribd.com/doc/2087887/a-comprehensive-chord-tone-system-for-mastering-the-bass-jeff-berlin"]http://www.scribd.com/doc/2087887/a-comprehensive-chord-tone-system-for-mastering-the-bass-jeff-berlin[/url]

[quote name='dazza14' timestamp='1395399584' post='2401974'] but I have bad habits that I stick to, like scales, arpeggios [/quote] ???? I would not call them bad habits. It's how you use them that counts. As has been mentioned, listen to some twelve bar blues. You should get some inspiration here. Also, even though you may not like jazz, learning some "walking" basics is a great way of learning bass lines for [i]all[/i] types of music. Dave Marks has a series of lessons here, starting with the basics and building from there : [url="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+marks+walking+bass+lesson&sm=1"]http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dave+marks+walking+bass+lesson&sm=1[/url]