Coilte

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1343657176' post='1753196'] I think they would be the first to complain if they turned up and the stage was in darkness and the artist just played his songs with a 5 sec silence between each one and a blank expression on his face. [/quote] C'mon, lets get real here !! No artist worth his/her salt is going to let this happen. If they did, there would be no audience, let alone a disappointed one. Even in the most grotty gig venues, the stage is never in darkness, at least not in my experience. What I assumed we were talking about here, was artists dressing up to the nines and putting on a glitzy show. There is a difference between this, and an artist performing his music and interacting with his audience, either through the music itself, or through a bit of banter etc.

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1343593890' post='1752550'] Live music is a performance. Performance isn't just playing music. It's a multi-sensory experience, for the performer as well as the audience. Hoppus is right- give it some. [/quote] Again, as said previously, it depends on the type of live music performance. Your average weekly pub gig would come under this category, yet performers dont dress up or put on any particular "show" in this case. Does not seem to bother the punters. Besides, I am convinced that there are lots of people who go to a concert/gig/live performance purely for the music (granted, in the hope that is played well), and dont care much for the other "multi-sensory experiences".

Here are the video clips that go with the link I posted in post #2. This particular clip is lesson #3. You could start at the beginning and work your way through ( the better idea IMO), or start on lesson 3 and work your way through. To find the other lessons search You Tube for "Dave Marks Walking bass lessons". [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-qfo8LnMO4[/media]

I often buy from this site. Does not do DR's though. [url="http://www.lordofthestrings.com/"]http://www.lordofthestrings.com/[/url]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1343494959' post='1751460'] Ok, working with this exercise, how do you come back down the strings (something I like to do in my exercises)? For instance: if you ascend: F, A, C, E, A, C, E, F, C, E, F, A, E, F, A, C... do you descend: C, A, F, E, A, F, E, C, F, E, C, A, E, C, A, F? or do you descend: E, F, A, C, C, E, F, A, A, C, E, F, F, A, C, E (if you can follow all that; imagine starting low F on the E string up to the C on the G) [/quote] The exercise is to get your fingers used to playing, and your ears used to hearing the different sounds of the various inversions. Inversions are just mixing up the 1,3,5,&7 notes of a chord, having a different note as the lowest sounding each time. Play each chord individually, as shown in the link. For example, Dm is DFAC = Root inversion - 1357 (D is the lowest note) FACD= 1st inversion -3571 (F is the lowest note) ACDF = 2nd inversion - 5713 ( A is the lowest note) CDFA = 3rd inversion - 7135 (C is the lowest note) The above are the different inversions for the Dm chord. Go through each chord as shown on the link. Play each one in the root inversion (1357) first. Then play each chord in it's 2nd inversion (3571), then it's third inversion. When you have nailed that, play the first chord in the root position, then play the next chord in the 1st inversion, the next chord in the 2nd inversion etc. Hope this makes sense.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1343400061' post='1750206'] Disagree completely. [/quote] I think I get the message. Seriously, I could not give a damn what an artist wears on stage. I simply go, to see (and hear !!) an artist perform his/her music. Their sense of fashion means nothing to, nor does it "entertain" me. Once the music, performance, over all sound, athmosphere, etc., is good, I am a happy bunny. Granted, others like your good self dont see it this way. Fair enough.

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1343392787' post='1750052'] Cheers Coilte! There's a good thread in this subforum* with a Jeff Berlin lesson about learning chord tones and using approach notes to them, and the video series is worth watching. It encouraged me to go back to working on this book: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chord-Studies-Electric-Bass-Technique/dp/0634016466"]http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0634016466[/url] [/quote] Yeah, I saw the Jeff Berlin video clips....excellent. Here is another link to chord tones from Jeff Berlin, which the OP and others should find interesting. [url="http://www.scribd.com/doc/387695/Jeff-Berlin-A-Comprehensive-Chord-Tone-System-for-Mastering-the-Bass-1987"]http://www.scribd.com/doc/387695/Jeff-Berlin-A-Comprehensive-Chord-Tone-System-for-Mastering-the-Bass-1987[/url]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1343396244' post='1750132'] I really don't care what a band wears when going on stage really. I think too many bands go for image over music which is something I really really detest the idea of. [/quote] Agree completely.

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1343384627' post='1749825'] Also I humbly offer up this: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/174853-new-exercise-i-invented-see-what-you-think/page__p__1633118#entry1633118"]http://basschat.co.u...18#entry1633118[/url] [/quote] Good thread Hector, as is the Scott Devine link.

I find the best way to practice arpeggios is to work on their inversions. For example: 1357 - Root Inversion 3571- 1st " 5713- 2nd " 7135 - 3rd " The link below does inversions on a chord progression (Dm7 G7 Cmaj7). [url="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:x5YSj-DaVEsJ:s63821.gridserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/davemarkswalking05.pdf+dave+marks+chord+inversions&hl=en&gl=ie&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgqFNM_AKtAQT0XzGJ3Ig5TMl7opNvXtxV_ZqFcsLjU9H89qD4ilT4b__9X9RBREGXifu8YML3l2QrbJKeVc1jQrJjfQa37HBYqqEx2mZLqhuDH-J6NX_WcnEDicEgehBioHQ85&sig=AHIEtbQPWyLGL5x0VPXg6y6cwNCXaWAo2A"]https://docs.google....g6y6cwNCXaWAo2A[/url]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343305816' post='1748606'] Not all gigs are the same. [/quote] +1.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1343305716' post='1748602'] you should probably give them something worth seeing. [/quote] Not sure what you mean. Most people go to see the particular artist play his/her music. If they want a fashion parade, then that's a different story.

Great clip Scott. Maybe at a later time you could give some advice as to [b]where[/b] to start and how to build from there. There are many threads on the bass forums from noobs asking exactly this. There is an eternal amount of (mis)information out there. Often it is overwhelming for a noob to sift through all this information. They may find a lesson that appeals to them, but they fall by the wayside very fast as they have not put in the ground work. Anyway, thanks for posting.

It depends on the music I suppose. If the music is only incidental, and appearances count, then so be it. Anyone genuinely interested in music for itself, could not give a damn what the bassist ( or any other member of the band for that matter) did or how he looked, provided he could [b]play. [/b] Miles Davis regularly turned his back to the audience when he performed. Did not seem to bother anyone, as they were there to listen as much as see.

[quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1342992080' post='1743645'] Before you go one or other way, you should ask one question - what am I trying to achieve by doing this? In other words, are you trying to become a 'technician' or a musician? I hope it's the latter one, and if it is, then let me tell you one thing - you don't need to isolate technique as such at ALL to become a good musician. One of the criteria of being a good musician is to be able to play your instrument , no matter what it is, with ease. Now, this implies 'technical' aspect but know this - ALL the tehnical difficulties that you face on your instrument can be solved by practicing MUSICAL content. You don't have to waste your time by practicing 'technical' exercises, because they won't improve your overall musicianship (apart from basic motor-skills) by one iota. [/quote] I agree 100%.

While good technique is essential in the over all development as a bassist, IMO it is not good to isolate it to the detriment of other things. What is the use of having impeccable technique, if your timing is bad, for example ? This guy (see link) seems to break every "rule" in the book as far as L/H technique is concerned. It has not had a negative effect on either his career or his playing. Ditto for Jack Bruce, who uses a similar type of L/H technique. When these two men started out, there was not such an emphasis on "good" technique. They were left to find their own, which they did. Be aware that good technique is to your advantage, but dont get too hung up on it. Link : [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obFcsEtFIKA[/media]

Nothing wrong with wanting to learn, but in the end it is up to you to take on board all the advice, tips and information, and decide what is for you and what is not. You say the FT is alien to you. How long have you being practicing it ? Naturally, something is going to be alien when you try it first. Only after about six months or so, of constantly trying and practicing something, are you in any position to decide if it is for you or not. Perhaps you have spent that amount of time. I dont know. Personally, it took a year for me to be comfortable with the FT. IMO it was worth the effort. Anyway, I wish you luck and hope you decide soon on your preferred technique. Dont mind about other bassists and their talents. No matter who you are, there will always be someone better.

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342815298' post='1741549'] Most people, I'm guessing, rake because they haven't learned or don't know any better. Assuming that AP is indeed more efficient. However raking is also an efficient means to get around on adjacent strings and a lot of players use it. Both are as valid and as effective techniques as each other it seems to me, I may be wrong. I'm certainly not the expert. So it isn't a question of disapproval (in fact i've just got back into a chris squire kick and 99% of them time when I jam along with pick players I use a pick - and I bloody well enjoy that too). It's a question of what's effective. Both are equal, for me. But when I practice, I try not to rake. That at least seems more effective. Raking, essentially, isn't taht difficult. It's a natural thing: when the plucking finger comes to rest it's on the string below so you're halfway there when it comes to playing a note on that string. I like the style I have developed, but it's certainly not flawless! And i want to improve. That's why, over the past fortnight, i've gotten massively back into practicing (maybe too much, frankly. I give my hands a damn good workout!) [/quote] You seem to have answered your own question in your above post. You have the raking technique down fairly well. You agree that both raking and AP are both efficient (which they are). You have not yet nailed the AP technique. So, in order to get the best of both worlds, again, I think option #2 in my earlier post is what you need. You need to realise that there are no hard and fast rules. You seem to be getting by fine with raking, but want to learn the AP merely because you read somewhere that that's what you are SUPPOSED to. Generally, AP is better on really fast passages, and raking is OK on slower ones. If you can happily play what you want with raking, then I dont see a problem. However, as you seem to want to upgrade, and improve your technique, then use option #2. This way, you will have the best of both worlds, depending on what the music demands.

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342804295' post='1741337'] Thanks. Currently I am practicing strict alternation, no raking, even though that's what i would normally do. I'm told this is better. But some people favour raking, despite the counter argument being that it's poor for fast 16th note type runs, or string skipping (which is a problem). I'm really not sure what to think. Over the last several years I've developed a style that favours raking considerably. It's great fopr playing lines such as Jah Wobble's Visions of You. I get a fatter tone with my hands laying more flat across the string. But if I want to play alternating my hands want to dig in more which, although i'm certainly no expert, doesn't feel right. I don't know if this is just a matter of practice makes perfect (which is fine), or whether I'm contaminating my practice by using poor technique, and sabotaging myself without knowing. This is my biggest issue right now, and I don't know what I can do about it. [/quote] The way I see it, you have two choices : 1. If you are happy using the raking technique and it does not hinder your tone or playing, then what's the problem ? Stick with it. No one is going to shoot you for doing so. 2. It is generally accepted that AP is the way to go. If you really want to master this, then practice it for as long as it takes to feel right, 'till your hands DONT want to dig in more, and it becomes second nature. If you feel that raking is "contaminating" your practice, then option #2 is a no brain-er.

People have no hesitation in spending a lot of money on other bass "accessories" while neglecting to invest in the most important one of all, i.e. custom earplugs. Your hearing is priceless, so look after it. Buy the best ear plugs you can afford. With the custom ones, everything is clear, just with the volume lowered. If you cant afford those, get wax ones. "Quies" are good. Use some sort of hearing protection. Once you acquire tinnitus, the ringing in the ears is with you 24/7/365, and there is no known cure. I have read where some people have admitted they would rather be deaf, to get some relief from the constant ringing.

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342362340' post='1733709'] I'm interested in improvign my technique at the moment. [/quote] In that case, my original suggestion of a teacher is a good one. If you cant afford that, then there are 100's of clips on You Tube for all kinds of technique. Google "Scott Devine bass lessons". Great all round site, including technique. Here is another; [url="http://www.musictrainer.com/lessons/bass/"]http://www.musictrainer.com/lessons/bass/[/url]

[quote name='wishface' timestamp='1342354499' post='1733591'] That's great, but what does he recommend? Practise scales? How do you develop technique if you don't focus on technical issues, such as finger dexterity? [/quote] You need to focus on every aspect of playing. From a theory point of view I recommend working on CHORD TONES. Check them out on the site I posted earlier.

I think your best bet is to get a teacher to point you in the right direction. He/she can check out your playing and advise accordingly. If you cant afford a teacher then I suggest that you start at the very begiinning of this site and work your way through it. It has been said that it takes 10,000 hours of wood shedding to become reasonably efficient on the bass. Site : www.studybass.com

A few things could be causing your problem. 1. Not warming up properly before playing. 2. Jumping in too soon with fast playing, without giving the hand time to adjust to the task being asked of it. 3. Action on the bass may be too high. 4. Your technique.......make sure the wrist is straight. 5. Gripping the neck too hard and/or pressing down too hard on the strings. 6. The height that you wear the bass. 1 and 2 above are especially important. Do some gentle stretches for five minutes, then warm up SLOWLY on the bass for another five. Search You Tube for.... hand stretches for guitar

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1342100500' post='1729584'] Have you been to see a physio? They might be able to give you some exercises to strengthen it. Unfortunately, quite often the only cure for this kind of thing is patience---you have to be prepared to rest it, and not use it even though you really want to. Otherwise you can risk making it worse. [/quote] + 100 to this. OP, you say "seems" to be like tennis elbow. It would be prudent to get it diagnosed by a doctor or physiotherapist. Complete rest is the best remedy till you do so.