bassaussie

[quote name='The Burpster' post='255033' date='Aug 5 2008, 07:16 AM']Nice spot..... Well done that man! On her Myspace Sarah mentions getting her first bass from a pawn shop, I wonder if thats it? [/quote] I remember reading an article with her some years back, and I have a feeling she's used that Silvertone for a really long time. I'm actually a bit of a Dano/Silvertone fan - I've got one of those really cool guitars with the amp in the case. It's a 60s job as well, and the guitar is awesome. The amp's got a nice sound as well, it's just a little awkward with it's size.

It's a 60s Silvertone, model 1443. Silvertone basses around that time were made by Danelectro - I think Silvertone was the house brand for Sears. You can read all about it here [url="http://www.vintagesilvertones.com/forsale_silvertone_1443bass.html"]http://www.vintagesilvertones.com/forsale_...e_1443bass.html[/url] Damn cool looking bass. There was one on Ebay a few months back (US of course).

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='253623' date='Aug 3 2008, 08:56 AM']Nice work! Funnily enough I know Clayton St fairly well and I joked earlier in the thread that it could be a take on 'Crack Converters'... well guess what the address for CC in Newcastle happens to be? Yep you guessed it; the trading company is registered at the same address as CC. Mystery solved Think I'll pop in and have a look [/quote] It's a sh*tty thing to do, that's for sure. Thing is, though, people have to realise that Ebay has definitely become the land of [i]caveat emptor[/i]. Anyone who approaches Ebay without having done their homework can end up losing a lot of money, and if the auction is worded correctly (as I believe this one is), the buyer will lose that money will very little chance of getting it back. Keep us tuned on what happens with your shop visit - personally, I doubt you'll see this bass on the floor, but you never know.

Come on guys!!! Remember - when trying to figure out what the scam is, Google is your friend!! [url="http://www.do-business.net/CompanySelect/select.aspx?key=7a96c409-8d9a-4a09-8fd0-960a61a67195"]http://www.do-business.net/CompanySelect/s...d0-960a61a67195[/url] [url="http://www.touchnewcastle.com/business/list/bid/3346583"]http://www.touchnewcastle.com/business/list/bid/3346583[/url] [url="http://www.bview.co.uk/listing/1368850/Daemma-Trading-Ltd-in-NE1"]http://www.bview.co.uk/listing/1368850/Dae...ding-Ltd-in-NE1[/url] So, we know (or can assume) that the seller is a second hand dealer in Newcastle. My take on it is this. He's bought the thing thinking it was a Stingray, then realised he got done (on the other hand, maybe he just wants to make a huge profit, but I guess his motives don't really matter here). Now he's trying to recoup his money. Notice he carefully avoids any use of the word "Musicman" or "Music Man". He's using the words "Ernie Ball" because he feels he can defend that use (check this auction, and have a look at the back of the headstock - the words "Ernie Ball" are definitely there [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ernie-Ball-OLP-Bass-Guitar-flametop-MUSICMAN-MUSIC-MAN_W0QQitemZ110276099164QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110276099164&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318"]Another OLP bass[/url]). But he's a sneaky bugger, as he's also avoided using the acronym "OLP", as he doesn't want to give too much away. Reason he wants to deliver is obvious - he wants the money first, then you get the bass. No chance of inspection, no chance of backing out of the deal. Once he has the money, he obviously feels he has a good case to keep the money, and if you really look at the advertisement, I'd say he might be right. He's playing on people's hopes that they're going to get a bargain - he's presented an auction that at first glimpse looks to be one - only after a bit of study is it obvious that it's not a bargain, and it takes some experience of basses to know that's the case.

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='242723' date='Jul 18 2008, 02:05 PM']Isn't it a stupidly low BIN? I would've thought these'd go for £500+..? I don't know much about vintage Fenders, but it just seemed too good to be true![/quote] Phil, it's a Musicmaster, and the auction is in America. It's really not that good a deal.

[quote name='99ster' post='238538' date='Jul 13 2008, 02:15 PM']Good detective work Bassaussie![/quote] Thanks! I had a shot with "The Wayback Machine" too, but had no luck. What I've noticed lately is that scammers have twigged to the fact that people will seach on Ebay for serial numbers, neckplate stamps etc, so the scammers wait until the details have disappeared from Ebay. Damn shame all round, actually, as it looks like a really nice bass. Completely aside from the auction itself, do you think the finish is original - I actually thought it might've been, going by the undercoat.

I'm suspicious about this one. And if this is a scam, the scary part about it is that the scammer is putting a bit of work into the auction to distance it from the original instrument, and has put a very good description up as well. Points to note. 1. Free shipping, anywhere in the world. It's not unheard of, but still, why?? Especially on an instrument starting at £699, no reserve - the shipping could severely eat into the final sale price if it didn't move beyond £699. 2. Starting price of £699 for a bass that, at worst, is a refin and has changed tuners. If his description is accurate, he could walk into any dealer in London and have £1500 in his hands within seconds, and I'm being ultra-conservative there. The neck alone is worth well over £1000. 3. The serial number. The seller has said "L4XXX", which, when compared to the photo of the neckplate, looks plausible. However, L series numbers are "LXXXXX" (6 positions, not 5). For me, it appears that the seller has looked at the neck plate photo, thought that the serial number only had 5 positions, and described it accordingly. But if you look at that photo closely, you can just about see the 6th position digit. For a seller who knows so much about pre-CBS Fenders (ie. stick marks, C profile neck, neck date stamp etc) this seems a strange error to have made. So I'd suggest caution with this. Maybe it is legit, and there's an amazing bargain to be had, but I'd strongly recommend collection in person. EDIT: This is a cached version of an auction for the same bass. It's from Italian Ebay. Make of it what you will. It's all very smart - finding this auction was very difficult, simply doing a search on Ebay didn't lead me to it. [url="http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:CSdku_kAAH8J:cgi.ebay.it/1964-Fender-Precision-Bass-Fiesta-Red_W0QQitemZ300227753954QQihZ020QQcategoryZ64401QQcmdZViewItem+1964+fender+precision+bass+5dec64c+fiesta+red&hl=pt-PT&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=pt"]http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:CSdku_k...;cd=1&gl=pt[/url]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='237088' date='Jul 11 2008, 09:26 AM']Did someone call The Nobby's are/were some of the earliest and limited but oddly enough the bass version appears on eBay with surprising regularity... it's either a handful of duff basses that keep doing the rounds or owners never hold onto them. I've seen the basses selling for less than a grand.[/quote] I've tried a couple of Nobby basses. They actually sound very Warwick-like, which I guess shouldn't have surprised me, but did anyway!! The thing that put me off was the feel. They really don't sit very well at all. I've got a real Steinberger L2, and while I never made a side-by-side comparison, I feel comfortable saying there's really no comparison between the two as to how the feel strapped on. [quote name='warwickhunt' post='237088' date='Jul 11 2008, 09:26 AM']I've not seen the guitar version that often (nor have I studied it) though I do recall a while back someone questioning if the couple that have been noted are cut down basses! The pup mounts look like they could be hiding a cavity routed for bass pups but I'd really not like to say what the real story is. I suppose the scale length and fret spacing would easily identify if this were originally made as a guitar! Letters of authenticity from a music shop or HPW are so easily faked/typed up that I'd be reluctant to take that as the only form of provenance.[/quote] I was thinking much the same. Still, there are these rarities around (for example, the early Status/Strata guitars), and since the guitar buying public is much larger than the bass-buying one, it would make sense to at least makes some prototypes to see if they'd sell.

There's one issue that could swing you one way or the other before you try either bass. The Sadowsky has a 34" scale, the Lakland is a 35". That point alone can could eliminate either bass, depending on what you prefer. I think what the guys above said is correct, though. With basses like this (and the money required to purchase them), you really should try them out first. That being said, I'm a big fan of Sadowsky basses (I own two), so I'll say Sadowsky.

[quote name='bassman2790' post='228874' date='Jun 29 2008, 09:21 AM']What do you think?[/quote] At the very minimum, the neck and tuners are replacements. The tuners are the sort you'll find on a lot of Korean instruments, that's a definite - and they match the string guide, also of that origin. The giveaway on the neck is the headstock shape - see the curve directly under the word "Precision", it's far too "curved" for a Fender. Add to that that he's using a early 70's "Precision" logo with a silver "Fender" logo - the "Fender" should be black. Finally, I think that the little logo after the word "Bass" is the "Offset Contour Body" logo, which is a nice touch, only that logo was only put onto Jazz basses!! Just a typical example of some applying a Fender decal and not doing their research to make sure it's correct. I'm not sure on the body, maybe someone else could add a comment? I'd be very cautious with any bids on this. Having said that, it's starting at 99p, and I'm sure the bass plus case has got to be worth at least £100, so it might be worth watching.

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='221257' date='Jun 18 2008, 11:36 AM']Although he is still presenting an overinflated opinion of this bass. I don't want to harang this guy but I don't believe his BS story, I believe he intentionally set out to rip someone off and after getting busted he's toned it down. good copy - NO collectors item - NO... not in the sense that's implied anyway[/quote] I tend to agree. My initial posts tried to get away from any finger pointing, as there's always a chance that the guy made an honest mistake, but the more I look at this, the more I think he was most probably trying to pull a fast one, is only backing down now as he got sprung, yet is still trying to imply that this bass is something more than it is. Strange thing is this. He's got perfect feedback on Ebay, so why would he want to screw that on a cheap Fender copy? Pretty stupid move, if you ask me. Especially these days, where the buyer can always leave him a negative, but he can't do the same back.

[quote name='aceuggy' post='221304' date='Jun 18 2008, 12:25 PM']Spooky! I've just ordered the revised edition of the Bass Book. [/quote] If you want to learn about vintage Fender basses, then get "The Fender Bass - An Illustrated History" by Al Molinaro. It's the best book around for that topic.

This situation reminds of something that I stumbled across a few years back here in Portugal. There's a couple of blokes who deal in the shadier side of vintage guitars here, and they'll try anything on if they see a buck in it. One's a dealer who knows next to nowt about vintage guitars, other than that they're worth a lot of money, and the other is a collector who know's his stuff, and therefore knows how to do forgeries good enough to fool less experienced people. So, one day I walk into the dealer's shop, and he's got an old Fender Musicmaster bass in there which he's charging something like 1000€ for. I had a look over it, and it's got this dodgy looking neck plate on it that's been made to resemble a pre-CBS neckplate, so it's simply got a serial number, nothing else. I asked him where he got the bass from, and finally got it from him that he'd got it from the dodgy collector. I then asked him what year he thought it was, and he assured me it was a 1960 Fender Musicmaster bass. I told him that was very nice, and that it was probably worth more than he was asking, especially since Fender didn't start making Musicmaster basses until 1970! He then told me that the bass was most probably a prototype. I told him I seriously doubted that, and when he asked him why, I explained to him that, when the bass had been in my possession (you see, I was the person who originally brought the bass into Portugal!!), it had had a neck plate on it that dated it to around 1974!!! He asked me how I could be so sure that it was my old bass, so I told him that if he looked under the pickguard, which apparently he hadn't previously done, he'd find that the body had been routed out for a Precision pickup, and not routed very well at that! I'd sold the bass to a friend, who had then sold it to the collector. The collector had taken the original neck plate off, placed a forgery on there (and, trust me, it was a really bogus looking neck plate), then sold it to the first unsuspecting victim - the dealer. Now, I didn't feel too sorry for the dealer, as I knew a guitar repairman that he would send all sorts of things to for the repairman to doctor up to look like Fenders and Gibsons. But his mistake was that he simply dated the bass based on the neckplate, and didn't confirm some other fairly obvious points - ie. did Musicmaster basses exist in 1960?!

[quote name='Bassassin' post='220539' date='Jun 17 2008, 12:54 PM']Had a reply: Which I'd say is fair enough, & hope he didn't get ripped off too badly. Although "Nedcallan" strikes me as a very strange choice of user name for someone whose expertise is not with guitars. Cynical me, eh? J.[/quote] It's hard to say whether he's a scammer or not, but if he's willing to accept what people have told him and relist it accordingly, then fair enough. Personally, I think he's just a poor bugger who got ripped off, but then decided to pass his loss onto someone else, doctoring the bass a little more to make it look a bit more realistic. Not the nicest thing to do, regardless of his own loss.

As said above, this is definitely not a Fender - it's early 70s Japanese, made in the same factory as Cimar. The pickup shape is what makes the source obvious, because of the rounded corners, and the tuning pegs are from the source as well (both pointed out by SJA above). There's other obvious signs - the headstock shap isn' quite the same as a Fender, nor the body shape. As regards the seller, the thing that I'm interested in is this. He currently has around 10 auctions, all with "User ID Kept Private". I'm always a bit suspect when a uses that option. So I checked his feedback, and particularly his most recent auctions, and it seems he's not used that option previously, it's just something he's gone for with this particular group of auctions. Obviously I have no idea why he's decided to suddenly use the Private Listing option, but it does seem convenient in relation to this bass. However, if I had to point to some damning evidence, I'd say this might be it. It's the last purchase he's made, 11 June 2008. [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250249467610"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=250249467610[/url] His bass auction was posted 15 June. I don't now if he could've received the neck plate in time for those photos, but it all looks very questionable.

[quote name='7string' post='219386' date='Jun 15 2008, 07:41 PM']Somewhere here on BC, someone recommended this interview with Roger Sadowsky [url="http://www.behindthenotes.com/index.php/Featured-Video/Features/Bass/Roger-Sadowsky/menu-id-17.html"]http://www.behindthenotes.com/index.php/Fe...menu-id-17.html[/url] In it he discusses the Metro range vs. NYC. The Metro's have a limited amount of options, but are the same fit & finish as an NYC. Surprisingly, the NYC basses are chambered to keep the weight down and they have the option of exotic wood tops. It's a great interview (about an hour) and I apologise for not name-checking the BC'er who brought the interview to everyone's attention in the first instance.[/quote] I was going to link to this myself, it's a great interview. It's a bit long, but well worth watching if you're into Sadowsky instruments. [quote name='7string' post='219386' date='Jun 15 2008, 07:41 PM'][b]bassaussie[/b]- You're a lucky guy to own 2 (!) Sadowsky NYC basses [/quote] I know!!! I swear, I look at some of the basses I have, and I really do feel very fortunate to have been able to own them. The Sadowsky instruments really are wonderful.

I own 2 Sadowsky NYC basses, and owned a Metro for a period as well. One of my NYC basses is actually very similar to the one you bought, same colour and with the quilt top. Mine has black hardware and I also had the VTC installed when I bought it. To be honest, there's not a lot in it with regards to sound and quality. I was blown away by how good the Metro bass was that I had, it was right up there with the NYC basses. I guess if I was pushed for an opinion, I'd say the NYC basses just have this little "something" that I can't quite put my finger on, but it's VERY little - it's like the Metro is 95% the bass that the NYC is. The real difference comes down to the options - the NYC has all the different tops available, you can choose different pickup options, different radius' on the neck, different hardware options. Also, the NYC comes standard with the VTC, the necks have a graphite bar, and the bodies are chambered. Look at it this way - I certainly wouldn't have any reservations about owning another Metro, the ones I've tried along with the one I owned were all great basses.

Hi, I own a couple of Sadowsky NYC basses, have owned a Metro, and have also tried out quite a few examples, so I'll tell you what I can. The two basses you've shown there are a UV70, as you said, and a Standard 5, which is a slightly different bass to the M5-24. Here's some pics from [url="http://www.sadowsky.com"]Sadowsky Website[/url] UV70 M5-24 Standard 5 Each model has the Sadowsky preamp, and you have options of ash or alder for the body, and maple or rosewood for the fingerboard. The UV70 is different in that it has a full sized Jazz body, block markers on the fingerboard, and the bridge pickup is a little closer to the bridge, in the 70's position. Pickups are humcancelling J/J, and the neck is 21 frets. The Standard model has a 7/8 size body, with the bridge pickup in the 60's position, which is a little further from the bridge than the 70's. Again, pickups are humcancelling J/J, and the neck is 21 frets. The Vintage series is pretty much the same bass, only with a pickguard and the Jazz style control plate. The M5-24 (maple fingerboard) and R5-24 (rosewood fingerboard) have a slightly different body shape again, closer to the 7/8 size. Pickups are two Sadowsky soapbars, and the neck has 24 frets. The UV70, Standard and Vintage models are based on a Jazz sound, with a slightly more moderntwist because of the preamp. The Modern model is a bit more aggressive sounding to my ears, and starts to move away from a typical Jazz tone. All have a very usable tone though, and comfort wise, they're great, as long as you like Fender style instruments. The thing I always like to point out on my basses is the fretwork, which is incredible. It's a small issue, I guess, but it's of such an amazing standard that I think it's worth noting.